The status of Woman in Islam/Islamism

[jankhan]

Again répétition....

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Badlun; these are all just your distorted, superficial and extremist cultural interpretation of Islam. this is not how Islam was practiced by the original Muslims

we already had this debate and I defeated these points already so repeating the same argument over is just a sign you cannot handle the Truth.

But let's put it this way; let's assume your interpretations are correct.

That means even at its worst; Islam is more fair to women than Pashtunwali.

If You claim Islam says women are worth half; Pashtunwali says women are worth nothing. They cannot get inheritance, no choice of husband, they are sold and traded for badal in the form or swara.

So even the worst interpretation is better than Pashtunwali's best interpretation

[Badlun]

Badlun; these are all just your distorted, superficial and extremist cultural interpretation of Islam. this is not how Islam was practiced by the original Muslims

we already had this debate and I defeated these points already so repeating the same argument over is just a sign you cannot handle the Truth.

But let's put it this way; let's assume your interpretations are correct.

That means even at its worst; Islam is more fair to women than Pashtunwali.

If You claim Islam says women are worth half; Pashtunwali says women are worth nothing. They cannot get inheritance, no choice of husband, they are sold and traded for badal in the form or swara.

So even the worst interpretation is better than Pashtunwali's best interpretation

Where does all this Pashtunwali say, which you attribute to Pashtunwali. Quote any reference. On the other hand I have quoted directly Quran and Hadith.

If Muslims do against what Quran and Hadith then they commit sin or you drop these things from Quran and hadith or freeze them for no further action.

If Pashtunwali does not recommend these bad practices then Pashtuns are to be blamed not Pashtunwali. If you prove that Pashtunwali does recommend these bad practices then Pashtunwali can be reformed but can you reform Quran and Hadith?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Then why women do not have explicit injunctions to discipline/beat their husbands?

well that's easy , because generally speaking women are physically weaker so if they tried to beat their husbands the impact of retaliation would more likely put them in danger; hence she has to get the authorities to amend her husband as she would generally not have the capacity to do so.

If men are already violent and dominant because of their nature then how can you give them further license to discipline/beat their women. Justice demands that the weaker women should be empowered not the already violent and powerful man by a clear divine injunction to beat the already docile, fair, week woman.

No one ever said men are already violent; but generally men are physically stronger. Discipline is not about physical strength, it is about correction. However it is incorrect that men can beat their wife. Justice demands that those who do wrong are reprimanded; if a weaker person does wrong, their weakness does not mean they are free of reprimand. However Nabi(saw) opposed wife beating, the verse is actually teaching men to seek authorities to reprimand his wife, not himself.

The best power is the power to earn and spend your own money. Why you cripple women that she must depend on men for their financial responsibilities. Why she is given a status like a parasite dependent beggar non existent entity?

yes and in Islam women can earn money; keep their own wealth and acquire their own property. This is something lacking in Pashtunwali.

What you're talking about is INHERITANCE, not women earning their own money; Those are two SEPARATE issues. The reason men get more inheritance is because they're OBLIGATED to spend more money on their family, their spouse and children. Women are NOT OBLIGATED to sped her money?

WHat does this mean? That means she can earn her OWN money FOR HERSELF; which is exactly as you said

So by saying this; you affirm that Islam actually grants women her own power and independence; which is denied to her by Pashtunwali; since in Pashtunwali, she cannot own property, have income or her own agency to do what she wants with her money.

Why an educated, intelligent, capable , hard working woman does not have the duty to earn and spend.

Because she's allowed to keep her money for herself and is and doesn't have to deal with the burden. That actually LIBERATES her because that means when she works; she works for herself. and if she CHOOSES she can spend for her family or husband or whoever.

This is the worst conspiracy against women to make her dependent on men financially.

So you're saying it's a conspiracy against women to allow women to have power over their own property and resources? You sound insane. lol

Once men pays her or spends on her, her status is not less than a prostitute or a servant.

Well prostitution would be like Pashtunwali which teaches it is ok to sell a girl to settle a debt or a rivalry. When a woman has right to keep her own property this is free agency and acknowledging humanity; the exact opposite of prostitution or slavery.

But if her husband spends on her and pays for her; this is not prostitution; because Prostitution is a one time transaction for sexual intercourse only. You're paying for a service. Marriage is all the facilities to raise and support a family; and that requires money; the family cohabits with the man and has access to the male property and inherits it. The prostitute is not supported and inherits nothing.

So it cannot be prostitution by definition; to suggest that means you don't know the definition of marriage or prostitution.

If slavery can be abolished after 1300 years then why we cannot abolish polygamy, beating of women, women being half of men and other injustices with women in the name of religion.

Because they only exist in your head and not in Shari'ah.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Where does all this Pashtunwali say, which you attribute to Pashtunwali. Quote any reference. On the other hand I have quoted directly Quran and Hadith.

If Muslims do against what Quran and Hadith then they commit sin or you drop these things from Quran and hadith or freeze them for no further action.

If Pashtunwali does not recommend these bad practices then Pashtuns are to be blamed not Pashtunwali. If you prove that Pashtunwali does recommend these bad practices then Pashtunwali can be reformed but can you reform Quran and Hadith?

It is practiced as apart of Pashtun culture as a customs and since it does not come from Islam it has to come from Pashtunwali

Since Pashtunwali is a folk culture; it is not based on books; Pashtunwali teaches that since women choosing things on her own is an insult to the honor of the man this leads to preventing things that allow her choice; if she has her own money she is given a choice so in essence Pashtunwali teaches those things.

[Badlun]

Where did Nabi(saw) said this

However Nabi(saw) opposed wife beating, the verse is actually teaching men to seek authorities to reprimand his wife, not himself.

If he he had said this then is not against Quran who asks for beating. And where does Quran says that to seek authorities and not beating?

[Badlun]

MONOGAMY OR POLYGAMY?

Is Islam a polygamous religion because Muhammad's sunnah was polygamy, the Qur'an instructs about polygamy. Qur'an promises Muslim men many virgins in heaven.

The Muslim male is allowed multiple wives and an unlimited number of slave girls. How in polygamy a man remains loyal to one woman? What are the mental and sentimental conditions of two are more wives of the same person?

And those (men) who preserve their chastity Save with their wives and those whom their right hands possess, for thus they are not blameworthy. (Qur'an 70:29-30, Pickthall)

I do not understand that Prophet would only allow his son-in-law, Ali, to have one wife.

Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama: I heard Allah's Apostle who was on the pulpit, saying, "Banu Hisham bin Al-Mughira have requested me to allow them to marry their daughter to Ali bin Abu Talib, but I don't give permission, and will not give permission unless 'Ali bin Abi Talib divorces my daughter in order to marry their daughter, because Fatima is a part of my body, and I hate what she hates to see, and what hurts her, hurts me." (Bukhari: vol. 7, bk. 62, no. 157, Khan)

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 7: Narrated Said bin Jubair: Ibn 'Abbas asked me, "Are you married?" I replied, "No." He said, "Marry, for te best person of this (Muslim) nation (i.e., Muhammad) of all other Muslims, had the largest number of wives."

MUHAMMAD'S ADVICE FOR MARRIAGE( child brides)

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?' (Bukhari: vol. 7, bk. 62, no. 17, Khan)



Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. (Bukhari: vol. 5, bk. 58, no. 236, Khan)

Was Ayesha's marriage a cultural phenomenon or something spiritual?

Prophet said it was Allah who revealed and justified this relationship:

Narrated 'Aisha: That the Prophet said to her, "You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and some-one said (to me). 'This is your wife.' When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done." (Bukhari: vol. 5, bk. 58, no. 235, Khan)

Consent of marriage? Just keeping silent. If you cannot see a woman and talk to her how can you know her and have consent?

Bukhari: Volume 9, Book 86, Number 100: Narrated Abu Haraira: Allah's Apostle said, "A lady slave should not be given in marriage until she is consulted, and a virgin should not be given in marriage until her permission is granted." The people said, "How will she express her permission?" The Prophet said, "By keeping silent