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  • Female Scholars of Islam

    Dr Akram Nadwi is soon to publish his 40-volume collection on Muslim women scholars. In 2007, Mehrunisha Suleman and Afaaf Rajbee analysed the lost legacy of women scholars and its impact on today's world in emel's feature on The Lost Female Scholars of Islam.


    At the time Eileen Collins became the first woman to command the space shuttle, some Muslims were debating the right of women to drive a car on the road. This disparity in the level of public discourse on the rights of women and role of women confront Muslim societies. New findings by a scholar at Oxford on the historical role of women may help Muslims forge a new perspective but still remain true to the Prophetic traditions. Mehrunisha Suleman and Afaaf Rajbee report.


    rest of the article: The Lost Female Scholars Of Islam | Feature Interviews | Features | emel - the muslim lifestyle magazine

  • #2
    In the older days, Muslim Women were a very important part of their societies. Unfortunately today this is not the case in many parts of the muslim world. Islam gave them rights, that many muslim men of today have taken away from them

    Comment


    • #3
      Karachi, since I'm from a Pashtun background I will say that a lot of the reason behind this is because people assume that their culture is equivalent to Islam and this is most evident when people say Pashtunwali is compatible with Islam. However the contradictions are glaring. Islam allowed women to teach and have relevant positions in society. Even in early Islamic History women acted the roles of Economsts and Treasurers.

      Yet precisely because Pashtunwali and Pashtun culture distorts everything we have people like Badlun who grow up think that Islam teaches that women are worth half of a man and such absurdities because they learned Islam through the lens of Pashtunwali.
      [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

      2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Karachi View Post
        In the older days, Muslim Women were a very important part of their societies. Unfortunately today this is not the case in many parts of the muslim world. Islam gave them rights, that many muslim men of today have taken away from them
        In the old days there were many scholars and among them there many females.


        Today we dont have scholars but a few.

        People assume that if you a degree then you must be a scholar.
        Originally posted by Firdousi
        Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

        Comment


        • #5
          I read the whole article and the contributions of Muslim women has been discussed only in narration of hadith and jurisprudence. May be the book highlight other areas. But apparently women role in science , technology, philosophy and other natural as well as social sciences seems to be zero.

          I have no problems with the role of women in the early days of Islam. Hazrat Ayesha was the commander in chief during the battle of Camel. But later on women were not allowed even to go to mosques.

          Woman as half of man is not my theory but this is what Quran says in the connection of inheritance and evidence. Then Quran also says that man is superior to woman. Polygamy is another issue. There is a need of modern interpretation of such verses.

          Woman in rural Pashtun areas still enjoy the right to move around but because of extremist Islam in urban areas women are housebound. The reason is veil/purda which is a so called religious injunction and has nothing to do with Pashtunwali. Yes Tor is a Pashtun tradition and need to be reformed.

          Comment


          • #6
            This is the Pashtun interpretation on Islam based on the chauvanism of Pashtun values. The Qur'an never says a woman is worth half a man in terms of worth and value. Pashtuns interpret it to mean that because they have a negative attitude towards women in Pashtunwali.
            [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

            2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
              This is the Pashtun interpretation on Islam based on the chauvanism of Pashtun values. The Qur'an never says a woman is worth half a man in terms of worth and value. Pashtuns interpret it to mean that because they have a negative attitude towards women in Pashtunwali.
              Not in terms of worth and value but in terms of evidence and inheritance. And arrijalo qawamuna ala nisaa ....men are superior to women and polygamy and 4 witnesses to prove a rape and keeping slave girls and marrying adopted daughters and some hadiths that women are naqisul aqal and that women cannot become heads of a state, and women cannot show her face etc

              The only traditions which can be condemned in Pashtunwali are swara and tor. These two are now losing its prevalence as pashtunwali is not a divine code but a social system and culture and can evolve with the passage of time but religion is rigid not flexible like Pashtunwali.

              Qur'an and Hdith being inviolable, not amendable, unchangeable as declared by the so called pundits, will always remain valid and thus no hope that one woman will become equal to one man in inheritance etc ever in Islam.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Badlun View Post
                Not in terms of worth and value but in terms of evidence and inheritance. And arrijalo qawamuna ala nisaa ....men are superior to women and polygamy and 4 witnesses to prove a rape and keeping slave girls and marrying adopted daughters and some hadiths that women are naqisul aqal and that women cannot become heads of a state, and women cannot show her face etc

                The only traditions which can be condemned in Pashtunwali are swara and tor. These two are now losing its prevalence as pashtunwali is not a divine code but a social system and culture and can evolve with the passage of time but religion is rigid not flexible like Pashtunwali.

                Qur'an and Hdith being inviolable, not amendable, unchangeable as declared by the so called pundits, will always remain valid and thus no hope that one woman will become equal to one man in inheritance etc ever in Islam.
                FIRST POINT

                Discussing it as a novice and nothing more,

                The word as I recall is "fadl" when I used lisaan al arab and Hans Wehr to find the meanings of this word the general gist or translation would be "because God has given fadl to the man." The notion of what fadl is must be defined.

                The verse in question discusses the familial hierarchy and you didn't include the rest of the ayaah. Qawam itself is charged with meaning and Ali, beloved by modernists and neo interpretationalists actually defines it as the "protector and maintainer."

                So what is fadl? One of my colleagues in the department is a marathon runner. I was telling her I max at 6 miles at 3 times a week. She studies exercise physiology and ran about 15 miles in one setting. She told me that in general men are the superior runners by physical design (I will enquire for her the specifics). Head to head male power lifting vs female power lifting: males win out.

                Intelligence on the other hand appears to be a varied thing with men apparently strong in some things and women in others... here is an older article on the subject:

                http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9329293

                In the modern society of America, who is more represented in the military?
                "By September 2008, 20 percent of enlisted personnel and officers in the Air Force were women. The Navy and Army had 15 percent and 14 percent, respectively; the Marine Corps had a significantly smaller share of women—only 6 percent.6"

                http://futureofchildren.org/publicat...sectionid=3615

                Who is more represented in the police force?
                "In 2007, about 1 in 8 local police officers were women, compared to 1 in 13 in 1987."
                http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=71

                I am not even going to touch on the clichéd response most give regarding the lack of a male president or vice present or that Pelosi only had a single term of control of the house.

                My point rests more on the fact that what gives the American woman her right? It is not her own two hands, her strength, her ability to win in an arm wrestling match, etc.

                Read about William Lloyd Garrison:
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lloyd_Garrison

                From his story and other historical contemporary sources what is obvious is that it was not even women suffrage movements that "won rights by force." Rather, it was the ability to enlist prominent males into civil rights movements that catalyzed things.

                Subsequently, it was pure necessity - world war 2 resulted in the males going abroad to die in great numbers for another unnecessary war and this shifted females out of the domestic sphere into an economically supportive one.

                So personally, I don't think "fadl" is inaccurate no matter how unpopular of a view of that may be with you or others.

                Fadl could mean more strength, more initiative due to being the stronger of the two sexes... The fact that Americas laws are enforced by a dominantly male police force and that its power is projected by a dominantly male military are clear evidence for the accuracy of Yusuf Ali's rendering.

                Basically, rights trickle down. Generally the strongest in society (In US society it was rich white affluent men first) secure the rights first. This is followed by the next in strength (black men who received emancipation second), and women were the last to really receive suffrage.

                SECOND POINT

                I think its grossly unfair and uninformed to claim the Quran demands 4 witnesses for rape and just brush it off as if there are no complexities. The verse is rather specific regarding the matter of infidelity. The application of this standard to rape cases is an extension of logic and evolved in the hanafi school of thought to as to go as far as possible to avoid implementing the hadd punishment unnecessarily (i.e. both the hadith and the Quran appear to advocate a position such that an innocent being punished is viewed as a greater egregious act then a criminal potentially escaping the punishment).

                http://www.academia.edu/2083424/Comp...w_forthcoming_

                This link above is to one of the best theses I have read to date by a female regarding the evolution of rape laws and contrasts the early maliki jurisprudence versus the Hanafi jurisprudence. The author comes to a similar conclusion as I stated above when discussing the hanafi thought process:

                "The most notable aspect of Ḥanaf ī evidentiary standards pertaining to zinā is theimpossibility of their fulfillment. This impossibility reflects the overarching juristicobjective in
                zinā cases, which is to avoid imposing the ḥadd punishment as much aspossible, in accordance with the Prophetic directive.
                "The most notable aspect of Ḥanaf ī evidentiary standards pertaining to zinā is theimpossibility of their fulfillment. This impossibility reflects the overarching juristicobjective in zinā cases, which is to avoid imposing the ḥadd punishment as much as possible in accordance with the Prophetic directive."

                The Maliki school of thought incorporated or extended upon its own view of the evidence to different rape into ightisaab.

                As I recall, and I may be wrong but Malik preceded Abu Hanifah and the same Malik also took issue with things he saw as not grounded in evidence like ibn Ishaq's sirah.

                POINT 3:
                An unpopular position doesn't make it wrong.
                http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...d-in-pakistan/

                I think this PBS documentary shows clearly the very real issues with simply being able to say "rape" and then getting the public to side with you without complete and unbiased due process.

                The case of this girl and the boy involved show societal complexity and how this case may very well have nothing to do with rape - yet in Pakistan many men were named by the female in question and their lives affected as well.

                Innocence is presumed generally, in both legal systems and in any good legal system in fact until the weight of evidence establishes otherwise.

                The ramifications of assumptions or trying to jockey for popularity because Muslims are suddenly acutely aware of how the world decided to perceive them are not simple.

                Other examples where rape was alleged and lives were destroyed as a result:
                http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...e-confessions/

                The Norfolk Four case became famous in the US.

                POINT 4:
                Can you define a timeline for us as to when you think Pashtun women were "put into the house" due to religion? I mean provide some general dates about the evolution of how you think women went from being active members in Pashtun society to being segregated.
                Last edited by BarakzaiAbdali; 11-02-2013, 12:59 AM.
                "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Badlun View Post
                  Not in terms of worth and value but in terms of evidence and inheritance. And arrijalo qawamuna ala nisaa ....men are superior to women and polygamy and 4 witnesses to prove a rape and keeping slave girls and marrying adopted daughters and some hadiths that women are naqisul aqal and that women cannot become heads of a state, and women cannot show her face etc

                  The only traditions which can be condemned in Pashtunwali are swara and tor. These two are now losing its prevalence as pashtunwali is not a divine code but a social system and culture and can evolve with the passage of time but religion is rigid not flexible like Pashtunwali.

                  Qur'an and Hdith being inviolable, not amendable, unchangeable as declared by the so called pundits, will always remain valid and thus no hope that one woman will become equal to one man in inheritance etc ever in Islam.

                  I thought you knew Arabic; Qawamuna does not mean "Superior" in Arabic. It comes from the word Qama which means standing or support, , Qawamuna is plural of Qayyim, there are several meanings but the context of the verse indicates that QAYYIM here refers to support and custodianship


                  Secondly Your claim is actually a false representation about Islam and inheritance. . Islam has general principles and circumstantial principles, IN GENERAL women are not responsible for the support of their families; their contribution to supporting their families is VOLUNTARY, not obligatory. Males are obligated to support their families. However, if for example there are no males or even that the males are not qualified or competent but the daughters are; it is perfectly acceptable to choose the daughter as primary benefactor in this instance.

                  Islam has a concept called "Istislah" which refers to applying what has the greater good. In general the explicit understanding of the Qur2an is right, but there are always circumstances it may not be. Islamic Law adjusts to that. It is not a modification but built in mechanism

                  However Pashtunwali; you need to constantly revise it because it was defective from the beginning. In pashtunwali women will NEVER get their inheritance NOT EVEN HALF, If the Man dies without sons HIS brother's family gets his things. If he doesn't have brother's then the male nephews of his sisters. Anything to keep it out of women's hands. LOL


                  There are MANY MANY things wrong with Pashtunwali NOT just Swara, Thor is wrong, BADAL is wrong. You cannot just go and start a war with another tribe just to feed your ego and pride. Preventing women(and men) from making decisions in major life choices is wrong. Islam encourages guidance and preventing women (and men) from making BLATANTLY wrong life choices however if everything is consistent with Islam, then why interfere? In Pashtunwali this is not the case, it is simply about family pride and ego, I know many Pashtun families who will give their daughter to a Sharabi Pashtun because they're related to them than a good decent Muslim who is from another clan/tribe or even ethnic group. Of course this is not exclusive to just Pashtunwali but it is certainly enshrined in it.
                  [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                  2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If men have to support women then this is the crux of the matter. Why men should support women why women not to support themselves and also men in some cases. This give superiority to men as money makes the mare go.

                    The most important factor of production is capital and that is the exclusive right of men. Then the second factor is entrepreneurship and that being a financial and economic managerial activity is again right of men. The third factor is labor and that again goes to men as they are the workers to create wealth to support women. The only factor remaining is land and this is nonhuman factor so women are also out here.

                    If you give women this right that they should support themselves and others then they do not need any other right. Here is everything. Having this right they will get education, will move around freely, will join business and jobs and thus they will get the real equality. If you stop them not to earn and to support , they will be redundant everywhere as they are now.

                    In the modern day what matters is person, human capital, human resource not gender. If a girl is trained and brought up like a boy she will be the best runner and wrestler. There are many women stronger than men physically and vice versa. All depends on education, nutrition, environment, family, resources not the gender. A man who cannot run for a minute because of some impairment cannot be superior to any women in physical activity.

                    Before the religion of Islam implemented wrongly by Mullahs in Pashtunland I can imagine that Pashtun women were totally free to move around and work like men as they are doing today in far flung areas and in grazing lands as Kochis. But after 1979 when Salafi Islam was totally introduced in Pashtun areas, women are now totally household material not for market, university, beaches, parks, mountains and any public activity outside the 4 walls.

                    No inheritance for women is no where an essential part of Pashtunwali but yes it is a strong tradition and which must be condemned.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It is the trademark of the kaafir and the munafiq to lie. Badlun is tru to his nature when he lies about studying fiqh and arabic and exposing his ignorant by ridiculous claims.
                      Originally posted by Firdousi
                      Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Badlun View Post
                        If men have to support women then this is the crux of the matter. Why men should support women why women not to support themselves and also men in some cases. This give superiority to men as money makes the mare go.
                        Because that's how we evolved as a species sir, much of these tendencies are biologically adapted for the most part. And if ANYTHING this is more a convenience for the woman since she is not obligated with another social burden.

                        However in some instances WIFE can become Qayyma but not general rules; remember Islam has both Generalities and Specficalities/circumstances.

                        In Pashtunwali women NOT have to take the family burdens they get none of the reward. . In Pashtun villages women are doing all the hard labor while men are in the Hujra chewing Naswar and sipping chai and talking about how big and manly they are.

                        This is against Islam; in Islam it teaches men responsibility.

                        The most important factor of production is capital and that is the exclusive right of men. Then the second factor is entrepreneurship and that being a financial and economic managerial activity is again right of men.
                        Not true; women In Islam were evolved in economic market regulation. Women owned businesses and propery. Where in Pashtunwali can women own property? NO where because women ARE property.

                        LOL


                        If you give women this right that they should support themselves and others then they do not need any other right.
                        Well they can if they need to but it's not an obligation; it's something they do voluntarily; where as for men it is obligation. So I actually already covered all these points in my previous response.


                        Here is everything. Having this right they will get education, will move around freely, will join business and jobs and thus they will get the real equality.
                        That's not real equality and here's why, Women are not the same as men nor are men same as women. Men and women have special needs and interests. Women are adapted a certain why by biology and so are men. Some of those things overlap for example women and men can BOTH do math and science, OBVIOUSLY but generally women are not as good protectors and maintainers and other such thing simply because of developmental factors.

                        If you stop them not to earn and to support , they will be redundant everywhere as they are now.
                        Well That's Pashtunwali stopping them not Islam.


                        In the modern day what matters is person, human capital, human resource not gender.
                        As long as we're still human beings, gender will ALWAYS matter as that is what drives our behvaior. If maybe 1 million years we become robots in computers....then it won't matter. But for now it will matter.


                        If a girl is trained and brought up like a boy she will be the best runner and wrestler.
                        There are some strong and physically capable women but they're only a small number, You cannot make general conclusions on small percentages. A Physically fit woman will certainly be more fit than other women and out of shape men but look at it from genetic factor.

                        A physically fit man WILL out perform physically fit women in MOST measurable categories in that regards This is simple Biology. But I recommend men and women to seek their fullest potential when it comes to physical fitness. However, reality is men are Biologically Adapted ti be larger and more sturdy for a reason where as women are not except when it comes ti chldbirth; then women are obviously better suited on the whole.


                        There are many women stronger than men physically and vice versa. All depends on education, nutrition, environment, family, resources not the gender. A man who cannot run for a minute because of some impairment cannot be superior to any women in physical activity.
                        yes but those are only marginal they cannot factor out of environment that much. We have to rely on generalities not exceptions.


                        Before the religion of Islam implemented wrongly by Mullahs in Pashtunland I can imagine that Pashtun women were totally free to move around and work
                        I would say you're wrong about this because you have Hinduism, Buddhism and Zoroastrianism all three religions were present in the area and It is known that the people like Soghdians were very restrictive about women so were Persians and Kushans. Only if a woman became a Buddhist monk did she enjoy some equality, but that is because those things are about abandoning human life in general. The very thing you don't want.

                        Pashtunwali inheritaged the negative views of women from these cultures.


                        like men as they are doing today in far flung areas and in grazing lands as Kochis.
                        I don't think you really know much about Kuchis; you have idealizations. You're right Kuchi women do very hard hard physical labor. I've seen Kuchi women walking with the entire kegdai on her back. But Also Kuchi women have one of the LOWEST life expectancies in Afghanistan, highest infant mortality and more over Their body is damaged very early in life; because women are just not adapted for such work; bone structure and everything is not suited for that.

                        But after 1979 when Salafi Islam was totally introduced in Pashtun areas, women are now totally household material not for market, university, beaches, parks, mountains and any public activity outside the 4 walls.
                        Afghanistan always had severe chauvinism between men and women; Khost rebellion is proof of that. Don't be intellectually dishonest.

                        No inheritance for women is no where an essential part of Pashtunwali but yes it is a strong tradition and which must be condemned.
                        You have to be kidding, if women cannot make decisions on their lives how will they get inheritance? It is almost implied in Pashtunwali.
                        [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                        2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Badlun View Post
                          If men have to support women then this is the crux of the matter. Why men should support women why women not to support themselves and also men in some cases. This give superiority to men as money makes the mare go.

                          The most important factor of production is capital and that is the exclusive right of men. Then the second factor is entrepreneurship and that being a financial and economic managerial activity is again right of men. The third factor is labor and that again goes to men as they are the workers to create wealth to support women. The only factor remaining is land and this is nonhuman factor so women are also out here.

                          If you give women this right that they should support themselves and others then they do not need any other right. Here is everything. Having this right they will get education, will move around freely, will join business and jobs and thus they will get the real equality. If you stop them not to earn and to support , they will be redundant everywhere as they are now.

                          In the modern day what matters is person, human capital, human resource not gender. If a girl is trained and brought up like a boy she will be the best runner and wrestler. There are many women stronger than men physically and vice versa. All depends on education, nutrition, environment, family, resources not the gender. A man who cannot run for a minute because of some impairment cannot be superior to any women in physical activity.

                          Before the religion of Islam implemented wrongly by Mullahs in Pashtunland I can imagine that Pashtun women were totally free to move around and work like men as they are doing today in far flung areas and in grazing lands as Kochis. But after 1979 when Salafi Islam was totally introduced in Pashtun areas, women are now totally household material not for market, university, beaches, parks, mountains and any public activity outside the 4 walls.

                          No inheritance for women is no where an essential part of Pashtunwali but yes it is a strong tradition and which must be condemned.
                          POINT 1:
                          You are completely incorrect when it comes to strength comparisons, per the science, on average between males and females. There are even innate differences in response to medicines between the two sexes. The anabolic nature of Testosterone ensures that on average training a male and a female with the same exact strength building protocol will result in the males strength being superior.

                          So that is a very scientifically inaccurate statement to make and is based once again on your emotionalist attitude derived from secular militant viewpoints - not based on evidence.

                          This article discusses things from a layman's prespective and cites various studies:
                          http://science.howstuffworks.com/lif...y-strength.htm

                          POINT 2: The above does not mean that I dont agree with you regarding the notion of women needing to be introduced into the economics and business aspects of any nation. Rather, I do think there are important roles. I myself have cited a recent study that indicates the meticulous nature of female physicians results in some better outcomes because they adhere to the guidelines put out for optimal care. The issue instead should be how to implement something that works and does so progressively.

                          I also agree with your reference to Aisha Bibi and her role and will add to that in the instance where the Prophet took her to watch the Spear throwers competition amongst other traditions that certainly do make it clear women were a part of the day and life of the early Muslims and their economics. We even have Caliph Omar, unfairly seen as harsh by militant secularist commentators in their propaganda generation, ceding ground to females in debates regarding passage of laws.

                          POINT 3: I reiterate again that the progression of rights in most nations, when divine law did not sanction something immediate, goes in a trickle down fashion. So even now, the predominantly male military and police force and governing body of the US is what ensures the rights of females are observed.

                          POINT 4:
                          Please delineate further... what would you say the environment would have been like in say Kandahar 1954? Comment specifically on the rural areas. Comment on the role of "Zar, Zameen, and Zan" concepts in the day to day affairs of Pashtuns, especially the rural masses.

                          Specifically
                          A) Where male and female roles equal in Pashtun society pre 1979?
                          B) If not, what were the roles and what were the general restrictions?
                          C) What was the concept of male and female pradaay interactions?
                          D) Did free movement mean that a random 25 year old female could openly converse, joke or talk freely with a random male not of her household pre 1979?
                          "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am not blind towards the biological gender differences. Man and woman have many physiological, morphological and even psychological differences but all these differences do not make woman inferior to man or the other way round. What I stress that nurture is more important than nature.

                            Woman having different genital organs does not make her inferior so that she should be maintained by men. Please admit this simple fact that the real power is financial power, rest are symbolic. A woman having her own money will feel more confident than the one always depending for a penny on her male husband or father.

                            There is a trend that conservative people appeal to biological factors as brain structure, evolution, genetics, hormones, or neurotransmitters as opposed to sociocultural factors as education, family, resources, environment, upbringing which is more preferred by liberals. Have an experiment that when a girl is born and you do not call her you are a girl but a boy then apart from her physical differences her behavior and strengths will be like a boy.

                            In a typical village in the rural areas of kandahar in 1950s I can imagine that a woman could move around freely working in fields and with herds of animals without any burka or veil. I visited the rural areas of kandahar few years back and even today where Taliban do not have control or Mullah is not very strong women can be seen in streets and few fields. Yes they did not have in past and today the liberties of a western woman who can befriend a male and can exchange jokes and merry making but woman was not that much secluded in past as it is now because of Islam or Islamism.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Badlun View Post
                              I am not blind towards the biological gender differences. Man and woman have many physiological, morphological and even psychological differences but all these differences do not make woman inferior to man or the other way round. What I stress that nurture is more important than nature.

                              Woman having different genital organs does not make her inferior so that she should be maintained by men. Please admit this simple fact that the real power is financial power, rest are symbolic. A woman having her own money will feel more confident than the one always depending for a penny on her male husband or father.

                              There is a trend that conservative people appeal to biological factors as brain structure, evolution, genetics, hormones, or neurotransmitters as opposed to sociocultural factors as education, family, resources, environment, upbringing which is more preferred by liberals. Have an experiment that when a girl is born and you do not call her you are a girl but a boy then apart from her physical differences her behavior and strengths will be like a boy.

                              In a typical village in the rural areas of kandahar in 1950s I can imagine that a woman could move around freely working in fields and with herds of animals without any burka or veil. I visited the rural areas of kandahar few years back and even today where Taliban do not have control or Mullah is not very strong women can be seen in streets and few fields. Yes they did not have in past and today the liberties of a western woman who can befriend a male and can exchange jokes and merry making but woman was not that much secluded in past as it is now because of Islam or Islamism.
                              My father hails from Kandahar. You are incorrect about some of this. While it is true that women were involved in agrarian life (and they actually still are in many places) - the society was not as you say.

                              I will refer you to someone who is like the sahabaa ikraam for you. Since Najibullah was like your modern Prophet, we can assume that for secular militants his cabinet men and trusted officials were like the disciples of Christ or sahabaa.

                              So one of the leaders of the marxist movement and one of the die hards from Kandahar said of the very area he grew up in:

                              "He (Zeary) paused searching for a modern image to describe the social conservatism that most Pashtuns accept without thinking: 'The Taliban are wild people. The place I was bought up in (Kandahar), long before the Taliban, was a kind of volunteer Taliban society."

                              He is talking about Kandahar circa 1930s and 1940s

                              page 73:
                              and this interview was in 2011.




                              Here is the bio of this person:
                              FROM A SOURCE AT THE TIME OF HIS INVOLVEMENT

                              Dr. J. Bruce Amstutz, U.S. charge d1affaires in Kabul from 1977 to 1980, begins his treatment of the first five years of Soviet occupation with an historical overview of years of Russian meddling in Afghan affairs. He follows this account with a first-hand report of the 1979 invasion, and analyzes the intervention from political, military, and economic perspectives. Important issues are: Afghan political factions, leaders, the human rights and refugee problems, diplomatic efforts to settle conlict, and Soviet measures to repress the Afghans. Photos.



                              page 74 has his bio as follows:

                              "Dr. Saleh Muhammad Zeary:

                              One of the most intelligent of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan leaders, Dr. Saleh Muhammad Zeary politically is remarkable for his chameleon like ability to remain in the good graces of all the khalq and parcham led governments since 1978. Born in Kandahar in 1937, he graduated from Kabul University's medical school after reportedly leading his class for seven years (some knowledgable emigres however dispute that statement.) A founding member of the PDPA central committee, Zeary was an unsuccessful contestant in the 1969 elections for parliament; after the elections he was arrested and jailed for six years. Following the 1978 coup he became Minister of Agriculture and Land Reform, a key ministry at the time. In 1979 after a purported disagreement with Ameen he was shifted to Ministry of Public Health.

                              Unique amongst members of Amin's politburo, Zeary was retained in that body after Amin's death by Babrak Kamal and, in fact, was made one of his three secretaries, the most important party position. This appointment probably was at Soviet insistence to show some Khalq representation in the Secretariat. Though he held no cabinet portfolios in the Babrak regime, Zeary was a member of the Presidium of the Revolutionary council and also was chairman of the PDPA front organization, the national fatherland front.

                              Westerners who have met Zeary, including this author, have found him fluent in English, highly energetic, and voluble. Afghan emigres who knew Zeary describe him as "Talkative" and bright. Some charged him as being a regular narcotics user (marijuana) and an alcoholic. A former Afghan ambassador who knew Zeary gave a different picture...

                              A consistent advocate of unity within the PDA since 1980, Zeary conceivably might be tapped by the Soviets at some future time to become Prime Minister."
                              Last edited by BarakzaiAbdali; 11-03-2013, 09:26 PM.
                              "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

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