Saudi destroying Islamic history

[khushal]

Question loaded with false assumptions. Try again.

what is false? the facts are that mosques are destroyed and paris Hilton stores are being built.

and if destroying burial sites is a virtue then why build them in the first place, why not cremate the bodies, that way, worship of the grave would be prevented. Why not bury everyone in the Sea like they did to OBL to prevent grave worship.

[khushal]

The early othomans were better. The latter were responsible for the demise of islamic civilization. I will condemn every person, be it mullah omar or who ever if i find out that he did what the othomans did.

we are not talking about the individual, we are talking about acts.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Martin Lings is a perennialist. He deliberately added words to an already weak narration.

Hmm, thats interesting. I looked up Waqidi's credentials and you are correct. He is castigated by the likes of Bukhari. He's sort of a controversial person in some regard. It seems like there was a whole generation that disagreed about him:

Muhammad Ibn ‘Umar al-Waqidi as a Narrator

The other bukhari citations however are strong and still stand in the original argument (i.e. the Prophet was not some guy sitting around looking for graves to level to replace them with business interests).



Books of Sirah are not suitable for deriving rulings.

By that same token, we would need to see how the "ruling" of leveling graves to replace them with western corporate interests is "suitable."

Quraish is muslim for the last 1400 centuries. Likewise millions and millions of other people are muslims for generations.


That doesnt mean that human nature alters all of a sudden across 1400 years. I would say that knowledge of the classical jurists had decreased across the last 500 years as opposed to increase. One should be wise when deciding that its worth leveling a grave or a historical area to replace it with a starbucks

The reason the green dome is still intact is because muslims are not prepared to accept that it is against Islam to build on graves.

Well, it may not be acceptable to build on graves - but what we know for sure is that none of the caliphs destroyed each others grave sites to replace then with gawdy structures and KFC. As I stated before, we need to hear about the circumstances in which the Prophet ordered the act and what purpose it served. That wouldn't mean that I would discard it if it was simply an order where the Prophet left out the purpose as we hear and we obey, but I want to know context and see the reports with my own eyes

I think you should ask hanbali scholars why they demolish those sites. It is not the king who is against those sites. The hanbali jurists and the salafis are against it.

Nothing happens in the Kingdom without the King being aware. If the King can discard a saying of the Prophet regarding stationing foreign troops on Saudi soil and get Bin Baaz to pronounce that as valid - I think its fair to say that Saudi governance and scholarship go hand in hand. When they dont, it results in scholarship going to prison until it is reformed

The othomans were misguided sufis who permitted shirk, sodomy and alcohol consumption in the name of spirituality.

And Talal Bin Walid is a paragon of virtue?

x

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The saudis earn their money with oil.

Annual hajj actually costs more money. Saudis do not make profit from it.

Correction, they sell it at less than the market value. They and the Kuwaitis were responsible, alongside the UAE in flooding the market with oil against OPEC standards in the early 90s hastening confrontation with Hussein.

They basically take a saudi national resource and outsource its refinement and production and then sell it for less than the market value when their overlords ask them to deluge the market.

Come on Wrorraka, are you really telling me that these guys are legitimate?

[Manzareh]

There are 1, 7 billion muslims. Where do you want them to do number one and number two during Hajj?

How about learning arabic and memorizing quran for heritage instead of some buildings with no religious significance?

How do you know that a person which is taking on the task of learning arabic and mememorizing quran wasnt initially inspired by this destroyed islamic history, it could be the first step of someones research into islam, it might not be your personal preference but like you said there are 1.7 billion muslims we're not all robots that think the same, just because you have no interest or value for historical things doesnt mean they hold no value for someone else.

And by the way, id want them to do number one and number two in the spot where a starbucks is or a parishilton store, your making it sound as if there is no other land or space to build toilets.

[Karachi]

The saudis earn their money with oil.

Annual hajj actually costs more money. Saudis do not make profit from it.

Any source for this claim?

[Karachi]

Martin Lings is a perennialist. He deliberately added words to an already weak narration.

Books of Sirah are not suitable for deriving rulings.

Quraish is muslim for the last 1400 centuries. Likewise millions and millions of other people are muslims for generations.

The reason the green dome is still intact is because muslims are not prepared to accept that it is against Islam to build on graves.

I think you should ask hanbali scholars why they demolish those sites. It is not the king who is against those sites. The hanbali jurists and the salafis are against it.

The othomans were misguided sufis who permitted shirk, sodomy and alcohol consumption in the name of spirituality.

why destroy Islamic heritage and build luxury hotels, malls, toilets over them? There are thousands of ways you can curb grave worshiping. and like I said, it is not just graves that were destroyed

I think next in line is the prophet's grave itself, I wonder what the wahabhis will do to that grave? you tell me. I know you must be having dreams of destroying that too.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

How do you know that a person which is taking on the task of learning arabic and mememorizing quran wasnt initially inspired by this destroyed islamic history, it could be the first step of someones research into islam, it might not be your personal preference but like you said there are 1.7 billion muslims we're not all robots that think the same, just because you have no interest or value for historical things doesnt mean they hold no value for someone else.

And by the way, id want them to do number one and number two in the spot where a starbucks is or a parishilton store, your making it sound as if there is no other land or space to build toilets.

Islam was not revealed through architecture and grave sites.

I think you are doing yourself injustice by trying to debate something based on misinformation.

You have no authentic source to convince me that Masajid where demolished to build toilets.

You are just exaggerating.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Hmm, thats interesting. I looked up Waqidi's credentials and you are correct. He is castigated by the likes of Bukhari. He's sort of a controversial person in some regard. It seems like there was a whole generation that disagreed about him:

The other bukhari citations however are strong and still stand in the original argument (i.e. the Prophet was not some guy sitting around looking for graves to level to replace them with business interests).

By that same token, we would need to see how the "ruling" of leveling graves to replace them with western corporate interests is "suitable."

In order to speak on this topic, one needs to finish the entire curriculum of at least one school of Law ( Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi'i or Maliki) plus one needs to know general maxims and principles regarding these topics across all 4 schools and other specializations.

Therefore, I rather not speak on this matter. There are scholars who have spoken on this matters. They are qualified to issue rulings and I trust them.


Regarding the king of Saudi Arabia, his government, and his pimp nephews, it is not a mystery even to a layman that they act against the interests of their own people and often they violate the Islamic law.

There are many scholars from within Saudi Arabia and many more from other parts of the world who are Mujtahideen. They have expressed criticism.

I believe it is wrong for us to condemn scholars for whatever goes wrong in Saudi. It is a monarchy. The scholars have a very powerful position, but they are often ignored or even worse, locked up or expelled.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Come on Wrorraka, are you really telling me that these guys are legitimate?

What makes you think I consider them to be legitimate?

[Friend]

For salafis, graveworshiping has been and still a big issue and the biggest issue of the muslims but they are unable to realise that graveworshiping is no more in the muslim societies. The biggest evils that muslim are adopting is that muslims are becoming materialistic like the west. Spirituality is going away from their hearts. The second biggest evil is people are becoming secularists and ultimately athiests. Muslim scholars and all those who are in the field should strive for these rather than spending thier energies of small issues.

[ډګروال]

Saudis are a big problem
they have named the country saudi Arabia ,named it after their corrupt family.
its time to seperate the two.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

graveworshiping is no more in the muslim societies.

[Manzareh]

Destroying ancient Muslim architecture/places and replacing them with shopping malls and shops that sell handbags for 1000's of dollars is worshipping fashion and your respected malls that replace our history is a demonstration of you worshipping materialism. Saudi Wahhabis want to promote Jihad against Zionism and what not but cannot do anything about 1000's of Zionist and American shops around the Kaaba. pathetic.

[Manzareh]

I wonder what the Salaf (real Salaf's not self titled people) would say about Masjid al Harum being surrounded by amusement centres and sky scrapers.