What an athiest says about morality?

[Toramana]

Can you be moral without God? - YouTube

As a mystic, I can say the claim above should be judged objectively.

[Khorosani]

He isn't completely wrong, atheists can be moral people the point is that there is no way the atheist can objectively call killing, raping, and other reprehensible actions immoral which leads to a dangerous doctrine for society. Hitler and Stalin, the atheists, were most likely against their citizens killing and raping each other but that didn't stop them from raping and killing other people for no reason.

The main reason we use this argument is when atheists try to be on the offensive and attack certain moral laws in Islam, when that happens we usually say "what can make you even say those things are absolutely wrong?" especially since they lack an objective criteria to say such a thing. It would be a different case if they try to argue it through a logical way but they usually do it through an ethnocentric perspective.

The main issue with atheists is the Creator Allah and a few side issues morality being one of them but not the main one.

[Manzareh]

This dude wouldn't go around committing crime, ok fair enough but what if he did? he could argue that he did the crimes because his own morality doesn't match what other people consider as moral. Common morals are governed by implementing the law, the law and legal systems foundations are all based and derived from religion.

IMO its not MORALITY that stops atheist people from murdering and raping, its the POLICE! also the thought of prison or punishment from the legal system that stops them - if there was no police around i'd bet atheist people would be doing so much more crime than god fearing people would be because they do not believe in the concept of good and evil so this could only mean their actions are based on basic animalistic desires and instincts. Its the wrath of the law which stops lunatic people that believe in no such thing as evil to commit crimes.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

If belief in the presence of a supernatural being or the concept of punishment after death acted as deterence for people who profess to be followers of religions, then no Muslim, Christian, Jew or Hindu would ever kill or rape.

[Khostai]

This dude wouldn't go around committing crime, ok fair enough but what if he did? he could argue that he did the crimes because his own morality doesn't match what other people consider as moral. Common morals are governed by implementing the law, the law and legal systems foundations are all based and derived from religion.

IMO its not MORALITY that stops atheist people from murdering and raping, its the POLICE! also the thought of prison or punishment from the legal system that stops them - if there was no police around i'd bet atheist people would be doing so much more crime than god fearing people would be because they do not believe in the concept of good and evil so this could only mean their actions are based on basic animalistic desires and instincts. Its the wrath of the law which stops lunatic people that believe in no such thing as evil to commit crimes.

so atheist and religious peopel are actualy the same, both are afraid of what will happen to them after they did the crime, and not becuase they think the crime is wrong?
I can use your argumnet and say the same thing about religious peopel, that the only reason that they behave is becuase they don't want to go to hell, and atheist behave good becuase they don't want to go to jail (what for atheist will be the closest thing to hell).

[Manzareh]

If belief in the presence of a supernatural being or the concept of punishment after death acted as deterence for people who profess to be followers of religions, then no Muslim, Christian, Jew or Hindu would ever kill or rape.

Not necessarily, one can believe in a supernatural being and understand his laws but still disobey them because of his human desires, pride, jealousy, anger, hate etc all overtake his conscienceness of god, we also witness this in our lives around us such as when people smoke ciggerrettes for example, the smoker knows smoking is killing himself but his desires overide his consciesness of health..at the moment of smoking death seems uncomprehebdable BUT ask a smoker thats been diagnosed with cancer and they will all say the same thing "I wish i beleived and kept my consciousness about the dangers, then maybe i wouldnt be in this situation" similar thing with obeying/disobeying God..this is the reason these things like desires, pride, lust etc are forbidden in Islam because they will cause people to stray and commit sins (in extreme cases kill & rape as you put it) however take words such as jealousy, anger, hate, lust, greed and ask an atheist to associate them with the life we lead..no doubt the conclusion made will be that these evil things/words (that are responsible for murder and rape) are not technically bad since they just play a part of natural human behaviour. Therfore the atheist tendencies in a human are his biggest distraction to living in harmony with his/her soul. True inner peace can ONLY be experienced by following the laws of Allah.

Sure people that title themselves as a follower of a faith kill and rape but thats because they are not religious enough to control themselves, if they were then these 'deterrents' in these religions would prevent him/her.

[Manzareh]

so atheist and religious peopel are actualy the same, both are afraid of what will happen to them after they did the crime, and not becuase they think the crime is wrong?
I can use your argumnet and say the same thing about religious peopel, that the only reason that they behave is becuase they don't want to go to hell, and atheist behave good becuase they don't want to go to jail (what for atheist will be the closest thing to hell).

If a person is a Muslim he submitts his will to Allah, this submission comes with the conviction that the commands of Allah are put in place for us because they ARE wrong not just because we are afraid of a punishment. We know them as wrongs/crimes because Allah has titled them as sins because they are bad and we trust him.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

If belief in the presence of a supernatural being or the concept of punishment after death acted as deterence for people who profess to be followers of religions, then no Muslim, Christian, Jew or Hindu would ever kill or rape.

Thats a very good point, liwaniya!,

Islam teaches that belief and obedience to the creator go together. One who claims to be a believer and acts against the teachings of Islam maybe a Muslim, but he is not a believer on the moment he commits a crime.

It is wrong to assume that one who is born to a Muslim family and acts like one outwardly is the perfect believer. Belief can increase or decrease, one can be misguided or guided.

I do believe that atheists can have good morality. A certain level of goodness is within every human being. After all, Allah created all of us and he gave us a sense of good and bad.

One can be a disbeliever, however, the fact that he is human can still make him behave morally.

It is atheism as a a religion that leads to immorality. The most dogmatic atheists are the most immoral ones.

I have an atheist friend. He is blind. He is an atheist because he was born with a disability while his parents are devout Christians. he is an extremely intelligent person and he is very kind and friendly. But he is an atheist because he feels he was wronged for being born as a blind person.

I have never seen him insult people or hurt peoples feelings. Yet, he is very emotional due to his disability.

He is a human being born in a loving and caring environment. His good morality is partially his own human nature and partially his upbringing.

But if he was an ideological atheist, obviously he would be as immoral and evil as some atheists I know.

[Khorosani]

If belief in the presence of a supernatural being or the concept of punishment after death acted as deterence for people who profess to be followers of religions, then no Muslim, Christian, Jew or Hindu would ever kill or rape.

Not necessarily, a persons true nature is known in the times of extreme situations or when the stakes are narrow. The best way to determine whether a group of people (religious or otherwise) are truly moral or they truly are deterred by an action because it is "morally wrong" than lets see the wars.

When Muslims were truly following the Quran and Sunnah you barely find offenses of war such as raping or killing innocent people indiscriminately. The same can't be said about atheists such as Stalin, Mao, and Hitler (though it can be debated whether he was an atheist or not, nonetheless his doctrine of nazism was a doctrine of atheism). The reason for this is because an atheist army would not see a higher up when going to war and he would consider that he himself is the more supreme power to deal with peoples lives as they will.

Furthermore, what is wrong with a person not doing something bad because of fear of Allah? There would be no doubt that the person who believes in the hereafter and deters from doing a wrong action does consider it wrong however the actions aren't only done with the will of the mind. Emotions can also play a part in committing a crime or a wrong action, and emotions are known for fogging the mind and can make you do an action even if you know its wrong. In that case those desires created by the mind can be controlled by fearing the consequences in hand.

Fear, with the Muslim, does not only include fearing the fire. No, it also includes fearing facing Allah with the wrong you do. The parable i can give is that of a principle, teacher, or a parent. When you do something wrong or something that will equate to disobedience of the aforementioned people than a natural fear occurs to face those three figures even though there may be no consequences that lead up to it. That is the fear that Allah means when he says Fearing Allah and for Allah is the highest example ( meaning we don't equate Allah to a principle, teacher but the relationship is similar to he one I just mentioned).

However there is another way that we religious folk deter from doing a wrong action that atheists barely talk about and that is love. I hear many ulema and duat say that we shouldn't do an action because of the love of Allah. I find that this is a very effective measure because this is the purest form of doing/ not doing an action. Here is a video i'd like to share.

'Love of Allah' | Shaykh Salih Al Maghamsi - YouTube