SAYING OF BELOVED PROPHET MUHAMMAD (Salllahu Allaihi Wassallam)

[Afgun]

[Bigmo]

You are being very dishonest. I have posted many hadith in Bukhari's and Abu Dawood and other collection accepted as authentic hadith by Muslims scholars that inspires terror and women bashing and intolerance. The post were deleted (as usual) because many people in the Muslim world and here want to bury their head in the sand. Meanwhile the Taliban and Al Qaeda and the suicide bombers who are being inspired by those hadiths are not going anywhere.

That is why the culture of violence and women bashing has spread across the Muslim world. Only the Quran can save Islam now.

You only quote the hadiths that you want people to know about, meanwhile the terrorist is quoting the terror hadiths inspiring other wannabe terrorirst. It won't stop. Sooner or later Muslims will get tired of this and look for an alternative.

The Quran will be their way out.

Quran is peace.

[Afghanistan2010]

You are being very dishonest. I have posted many hadith in Bukhari's and Abu Dawood and other collection accepted as authentic hadith by Muslims scholars that inspires terror and women bashing and intolerance. The post were deleted (as usual) because many people in the Muslim world and here want to bury their head in the sand. Meanwhile the Taliban and Al Qaeda and the suicide bombers who are being inspired by those hadiths are not going anywhere.

That is why the culture of violence and women bashing has spread across the Muslim world. Only the Quran can save Islam now.

You only quote the hadiths that you want people to know about, meanwhile the terrorist is quoting the terror hadiths inspiring other wannabe terrorirst. It won't stop. Sooner or later Muslims will get tired of this and look for an alternative.

The Quran will be their way out.

Quran is peace.

So you just believe in the Quran ( i remember that sect from turkey,refuting them,believing just in the Quran)

I myself opened a thread to refute all the sects one by one.


Oneday someone came to Mullah Bijli Gar,and said, i do not believe in the Hadiths

Mullah Bijli Gar replied : if you don't believe in the Hadiths, i do not believe in the Quran.

The guy replied : Mullah saheb what are you saying ?

Mullah said : Where it is stated that the Quran is truth word of God.

The guy : The traditions ( hadiths) says it.

Mullah Bijli Ghar said : Za za , go your way.

[Bigmo]

So you just believe in the Quran ( i remember that sect from turkey,refuting them,believing just in the Quran)

I myself opened a thread to refute all the sects one by one.


Oneday someone came to Mullah Bijli Gar,and said, i do not believe in the Hadiths

Mullah Bijli Gar replied : if you don't believe in the Hadiths, i do not believe in the Quran.

The guy replied : Mullah saheb what are you saying ?

Mullah said : Where it is stated that the Quran is truth word of God.

The guy : The traditions ( hadiths) says it.

Mullah Bijli Ghar said : Za za , go your way.

This is the most ridiculous argument i have yet heard. People were following the Koran centuries before even people knew about hadith. The Koran itself says its the word of God and challenges mankind to try to come up with something like it. Anyways if you believe in hadiths then why can't you face the hadiths that inspire terror and intolerance and violates the Koran. The reality I think is that many of these Mullahs only reveal the hadiths that they want people to hear. They avoid the hadiths that are being recited in Al Qaeda training camps. They tell Muslims that these terrorist are not folliwng the "true Islam". Yet thes eterrorist are doung nothing that the Sunni/Shia sects does not allow and condone. Now the Islam bashers have a weapon they can use against Islam. Many of them have become experts in hadiths, avoiding the Koran as much a they can since Koran has no terror. But with the rise of the availability of these hadiths among the masses because of the invention of the printing press and now the internet, it will be almost impossible to hide many of these hadiths. These hadiths were used by the Islamic rulers throughout Islam's history to justify executing prisoners and conquering lands and imposing taxes on people and dealing in the slave trade and raping women. When the enemies of Islam could not stop the Koran and fabricate it because God protected the Koran, they found it expedient to make up hadiths. This way they can legalize many things that the Koran forbade.

In the end Muslims will have to face reality. Either they accept the reality that terrorism will continue and freedom will have no place in Islam, or they will look for an alternative. At least I respect one thing about the terrorist and dictators like Omar Al Bashir and Mullah Omar and Al Saud and Ahmedinijad, is that they are more honest than many Mullahs. A country like Pakistan that has many Sufi sheikhs and many Islamic scholars, yet nobody is able to convince the Taliban that what they are doing is not Islam. Nobody is able to face Al saud and tell them that their laws are oppressive. This is because they all follow the same Islam. One is just more honest than the other. The hadiths was the door the enemies of Islam entered from after the Koran was closed for them.

We know from the Koran the enemies of Islam requested the prophet to change the laws of the Koran and replace some of its verses like the Sunni and Shia scholars did by invoking abrogation and the Sunnah. But the prophet would not heed their request so they fought him and lost. They failed in theri attempt to silence the Koran so they learned from the Jews how to circumvent the scriptures as the Jews did with their Talmud.

But when Our Clear Ayaat are recited to them, those who rest not their hopes in meeting with Us, say ‘Bring us a Qur’an other than this, or change this’. Say: ‘It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it. I follow naught but what is revealed to me; surely I fear, if I disobey my Sustainer, the punishment of a mighty day’.”

(10:15)

The prophet was the best Koranist. He would never violate the laws and verses of the Koran as they claim. He would never allow what it disallowed and he will never abrogate its laws and replace them with other laws and he will never ignore its verses.

The Koran will save Islam.

[Afghanistan2010]

This is the most ridiculous argument i have yet heard. People were following the Koran centuries before even people knew about hadith. The Koran itself says its the word of God and challenges mankind to try to come up with something like it. Anyways if you believe in hadiths then why can't you face the hadiths that inspire terror and intolerance and violates the Koran. The reality I think is that many of these Mullahs only reveal the hadiths that they want people to hear. They avoid the hadiths that are being recited in Al Qaeda training camps. They tell Muslims that these terrorist are not folliwng the "true Islam". Yet thes eterrorist are doung nothing that the Sunni/Shia sects does not allow and condone. Now the Islam bashers have a weapon they can use against Islam. Many of them have become experts in hadiths, avoiding the Koran as much a they can since Koran has no terror. But with the rise of the availability of these hadiths among the masses because of the invention of the printing press and now the internet, it will be almost impossible to hide many of these hadiths. These hadiths were used by the Islamic rulers throughout Islam's history to justify executing prisoners and conquering lands and imposing taxes on people and dealing in the slave trade and raping women. When the enemies of Islam could not stop the Koran and fabricate it because God protected the Koran, they found it expedient to make up hadiths. This way they can legalize many things that the Koran forbade.

In the end Muslims will have to face reality. Either they accept the reality that terrorism will continue and freedom will have no place in Islam, or they will look for an alternative. At least I respect one thing about the terrorist and dictators like Omar Al Bashir and Mullah Omar and Al Saud and Ahmedinijad, is that they are more honest than many Mullahs. A country like Pakistan that has many Sufi sheikhs and many Islamic scholars, yet nobody is able to convince the Taliban that what they are doing is not Islam. Nobody is able to face Al saud and tell them that their laws are oppressive. This is because they all follow the same Islam. One is just more honest than the other. The hadiths was the door the enemies of Islam entered from after the Koran was closed for them.

We know from the Koran the enemies of Islam requested the prophet to change the laws of the Koran and replace some of its verses like the Sunni and Shia scholars did by invoking abrogation and the Sunnah. But the prophet would not heed their request so they fought him and lost. They failed in theri attempt to silence the Koran so they learned from the Jews how to circumvent the scriptures as the Jews did with their Talmud.

But when Our Clear Ayaat are recited to them, those who rest not their hopes in meeting with Us, say ‘Bring us a Qur’an other than this, or change this’. Say: ‘It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it. I follow naught but what is revealed to me; surely I fear, if I disobey my Sustainer, the punishment of a mighty day’.”

(10:15)

The prophet was the best Koranist. He would never violate the laws and verses of the Koran as they claim. He would never allow what it disallowed and he will never abrogate its laws and replace them with other laws and he will never ignore its verses.

The Koran will save Islam.

Lets give it a try,hein ?

So what is the proof that this is the Quran which was revealed to the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) and who wrote it down ?

[Bigmo]

There is nothing called proof in religion. Its a matter of faith. What is the proof that there is a God?

So its up to the reader of the Koran to determine if its Divine or not.

And whosoever believeth in God, He guideth his heart. And God is knower of all things." 64:11

Have they not traveled in the land, and have they hearts where with to feel and ears wherewith to hear ? For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind." 17:97

Now hath come unto you light from God and a plain scripture 5:15

So guidance is from God/ The Koran says about itself:

Then do they not reflect upon the Quran? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction. (An-Nisaa' 4:82)


2.23-24. And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.

Of them there are some who listen to thee; but We have thrown veils on their hearts, So they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they saw every one of the signs, not they will believe in them; in so much that when they come to thee, they (but) dispute with thee; the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients."

So believing the Koran is from God or not is purely by faith and faith can only be attained by God's guidance. I think why some people ask questions like you did is because perhaps they never really read and studied the Koran and are Muslims because of tradition and upbringing. The pagans told Muhamamd that they wanted "proof" that the Koran is from God. They wanted signs to "proof" the Koran is Divine. The Meccans called Muhammad a liar and a con artist. We are told in the Koran:

17.90-93 And they said, "We will not accept faith in you, until you cause a spring to gush forth from the earth for us." "Or you have a garden of date-palms and grapes, and you make gushing rivers to flow in it." "Or you cause the sky to fall upon us in pieces like you said - or bring Allah and the angels as Witness." "Or you have a house of gold, or you ascend up into heaven; and even then we shall not believe in your ascent unless you send down a book upon us, which we may read"; say (O dear Prophet Mohammed - peace and blessings be upon him), "Purity is to my Lord - who am I except a human, sent by Allah?"

These verses reveal to us that the prophet was not able to convince his own people that the Koran he was reciting was from God. The Koran tells us that God told the prophet that no matter what sign you show them they will never believe since their hearts and ears and eyes are sealed.

17.9 And We have explained to man, in this Qur'an, every kind of similitude: yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude!

Quran is peace!

[Afghanistan2010]

There is nothing called proof in religion. Its a matter of faith. What is the proof that there is a God?

So its up to the reader of the Koran to determine if its Divine or not.

And whosoever believeth in God, He guideth his heart. And God is knower of all things." 64:11

Have they not traveled in the land, and have they hearts where with to feel and ears wherewith to hear ? For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind." 17:97

Now hath come unto you light from God and a plain scripture 5:15

So guidance is from God/ The Koran says about itself:

Then do they not reflect upon the Quran? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction. (An-Nisaa' 4:82)


2.23-24. And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.

Of them there are some who listen to thee; but We have thrown veils on their hearts, So they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they saw every one of the signs, not they will believe in them; in so much that when they come to thee, they (but) dispute with thee; the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients."

So believing the Koran is from God or not is purely by faith and faith can only be attained by God's guidance. I think why some people ask questions like you did is because perhaps they never really read and studied the Koran and are Muslims because of tradition and upbringing. The pagans told Muhamamd that they wanted "proof" that the Koran is from God. They wanted signs to "proof" the Koran is Divine. The Meccans called Muhammad a liar and a con artist. We are told in the Koran:

17.90-93 And they said, "We will not accept faith in you, until you cause a spring to gush forth from the earth for us." "Or you have a garden of date-palms and grapes, and you make gushing rivers to flow in it." "Or you cause the sky to fall upon us in pieces like you said - or bring Allah and the angels as Witness." "Or you have a house of gold, or you ascend up into heaven; and even then we shall not believe in your ascent unless you send down a book upon us, which we may read"; say (O dear Prophet Mohammed - peace and blessings be upon him), "Purity is to my Lord - who am I except a human, sent by Allah?"

These verses reveal to us that the prophet was not able to convince his own people that the Koran he was reciting was from God. The Koran tells us that God told the prophet that no matter what sign you show them they will never believe since their hearts and ears and eyes are sealed.

17.9 And We have explained to man, in this Qur'an, every kind of similitude: yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude!

Quran is peace!

Okay,instead answering my question,you turn around.

Lets give it another try,who brought this Quran to us,who were the transmitters ?



By the way,nice try

Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not.

[Bigmo]

I find the idea that equating me quoting verses from the Koran as an attempt to run away from your question as insulting to me and the Koran. Anyways I know where you are tring to go. What you want to go is that without hadiths we will not know who transmitted this Quran to us or that the same people who transmitted the Koran to us transmitted the hadiths. I have heard this argument many times.

The reality is we are only responsible to what scriptures is available to us and what was passed down to us from God. We are told in the Koran to investigate what we have possession of. Many scriptures from prophets and their followers were lost through the ages. We also know that the Koran quoted many stories that are available in Christian scriptures but were not accepted as part of the official Bible.

Anyways I have answered your question. You asked what is teh proof the Koran is from God and I told you that the prophet was not able to convince his own people its from God and its a matter of faith.

Now you were asking who transmitted the Koran to us. Why should it matter? What matters is what Koran we have. That is what God holds a person responsible for.

Remember many of the believers died before most of the Koran was revealed. We know many believers died in the early battles against the pagans and did not witness the vast majority of the Koran as we know it today. The Koran is one of the signs of God but its not the only sign. God can only hold us responsible to what we witness and have available.

As far as who brought the Koran to us, its the prophet and the believers around him who fought and died and sacrificed to make sure that God's words is available to us. God protected his scripture and made it available to us. That is His choice. Nothing can happen without God's approval. The Koran tells us that without God's help, the prophet would have never succeded against the Meccans who hated this Koran.

Later these meccans found the only way is to create another revelation to marginalize the Koran and make their own Islam.

[Afghanistan2010]

I find the idea that equating me quoting verses from the Koran as an attempt to run away from your question as insulting to me and the Koran. Anyways I know where you are tring to go. What you want to go is that without hadiths we will not know who transmitted this Quran to us or that the same people who transmitted the Koran to us transmitted the hadiths. I have heard this argument many times.

The reality is we are only responsible to what scriptures is available to us and what was passed down to us from God. We are told in the Koran to investigate what we have possession of. Many scriptures from prophets and their followers were lost through the ages. We also know that the Koran quoted many stories that are available in Christian scriptures but were not accepted as part of the official Bible.

Anyways I have answered your question. You asked what is teh proof the Koran is from God and I told you that the prophet was not able to convince his own people its from God and its a matter of faith.

Now you were asking who transmitted the Koran to us. Why should it matter? What matters is what Koran we have. That is what God holds a person responsible for.

Remember many of the believers died before most of the Koran was revealed. We know many believers died in the early battles against the pagans and did not witness the vast majority of the Koran as we know it today. The Koran is one of the signs of God but its not the only sign. God can only hold us responsible to what we witness and have available.

As far as who brought the Koran to us, its the prophet and the believers around him who fought and died and sacrificed to make sure that God's words is available to us. God protected his scripture and made it available to us. That is His choice. Nothing can happen without God's approval. The Koran tells us that without God's help, the prophet would have never succeded against the Meccans who hated this Koran.

Later these meccans found the only way is to create another revelation to marginalize the Koran and make their own Islam.

If a guy on the street gives you a Quran with translation in english and explanation will you take it ?

And believe the translation and explanation ?



Further,i don't know how familiar you are with the noble quran,but as i have read it,it is stated Obey Allah and Obey his Messenger,how can we obey his Messenger ? or was this not aimed at us ?

[Afghanistan2010]

Remember many of the believers died before most of the Koran was revealed. We know many believers died in the early battles against the pagans and did not witness the vast majority of the Koran as we know it today. The Koran is one of the signs of God but its not the only sign. God can only hold us responsible to what we witness and have available.

Where do we know from this ?

[badmash_khel]

@Bigmo, seems like you missed this verse


وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الذِّكْرَ لِتُبَيِّنَ لِلنَّاسِ مَا نُزِّلَ إِلَيْهِمْ وَلَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ
(16-44) Translation: “We have revealed to you (O Muhammad) the message (al-Qur'an) so that you can explain to the people what was revealed to them, in order that they may reflect.”
It is apparent from the above verse that Rasulullah [Sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam]'s mission was also to explain the Qur'an and hence Allah ordered us to obey Rasulullah [Sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam]. [Muhsin Khan translation]

Tafsir Ibn Khatir
﴿وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الذِّكْرَ﴾
(And We have also revealed the Dhikr to you), meaning the Qur'an,
﴿لِتُبَيِّنَ لِلنَّاسِ مَا نُزِّلَ إِلَيْهِمْ﴾
(so that you may clearly explain to men what was revealed to them,) meaning, sent down from their Lord, because you know the meaning of what Allah has revealed to you, and because of your understanding and adherence to it, and because We know that you are the best of creation and the leader of the Children of Adam. So that you may explain in detail what has been mentioned in brief, and explain what is not clear.
﴿وَلَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ﴾
(so that perhaps they may reflect.) meaning, they should examine themselves and be guided by it, so that they may attain the victory of salvation in this world and the next.





So what do you say about this verse. It clearly says Mohammad (saw) has to explain the Quran to the people which you deny was part of his job.

[Alchemist]

You are being very dishonest. I have posted many hadith in Bukhari's and Abu Dawood and other collection accepted as authentic hadith by Muslims scholars that inspires terror and women bashing and intolerance. The post were deleted (as usual) because many people in the Muslim world and here want to bury their head in the sand. Meanwhile the Taliban and Al Qaeda and the suicide bombers who are being inspired by those hadiths are not going anywhere.

That is why the culture of violence and women bashing has spread across the Muslim world. Only the Quran can save Islam now.

You only quote the hadiths that you want people to know about, meanwhile the terrorist is quoting the terror hadiths inspiring other wannabe terrorirst. It won't stop. Sooner or later Muslims will get tired of this and look for an alternative.

The Quran will be their way out.

Quran is peace.

There is also an aya in the Qur'an that teaches us how to "bash" our wives.
And there are several ayas that specifically lays out what should not be tolerated.
And there are ayats that explain the time to take up arms.

He just quoted an innocent hadith that makes you think about the value of praying and you stir the thread towards your own thesis - "ahadith validate the culture of violence in the muslim world."


not cool.

[Bigmo]

If a guy on the street gives you a Quran with translation in english and explanation will you take it ?

And believe the translation and explanation ?



Further,i don't know how familiar you are with the noble quran,but as i have read it,it is stated Obey Allah and Obey his Messenger,how can we obey his Messenger ? or was this not aimed at us ?

The verses about obey God and obey His messenger also outlines the prophet's responsibility and limited authority. Most of those verses have been abrogated by the Sunni/Shia sects. If the prophet had limited authority than the ruler also will have limited authority. The Meccan dynasties (Ummayids and Abbasids) wanted their rulers to enjoy absolute authority. So they elevated the prophet's authority and the 4 Caliph's authority and then transferred that authority to the Muslim ruler. They abrogated many of the verses you mentioned. The Mullahs are not honest as I said. They hide many things from the masses.

Look at the verses carefully:

And obey God and obey the messenger and be cautious; but if you turn back, then know that the sole duty of the messenger is the deliverance (of the message)" 5:92

And obey God and obey the messenger, but if you turn back, then upon Our messenger is the sole duty of the clear delivery (of the message)"64:12

So you can see that the verses you talked about actually shows us that the whole Shariah law violated the Koran. Because these verses make clear that the prophet's job was to deliver the message. However both the Suniis and Shias have a very different Islam. They have conques, they have floggings for alcohol and not wearing hijab, they have apostasy law, they have conquest and imposing taxes (jizya).

Whoever obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah; and whoever turns away, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them. (4:80)

Freedom is the biggest difference between the Koran and the Sunni/Shia sects. Because the prophetic responsibility in the Koran is very different that how the Sunnis and Shias understand it.

Ibn ‘Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, “I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah.” (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)”

Who gave the prophet that order when we know the Koran already outlined what order God gave him?

We also know that the Koran said as I showed in the previous post in this thread that guidance is from God. So how can the prophet fight the people till they acknowledge the Koran and him? He couldn't even convince his own peiople, so he know will have to fight them to make them acknowledge? This is terror. Not Islam.

But later Muslim authoritoies wanted conquest and occupying lands and taking over wealth of other nations. So they came up with this hadith. Everyone can see how this hadith violated what the Koran tells us the prophet was ordered to do. He as specifically told in the Koran repeatedly that you can not enforce or coerce or force people to have faith. That even if you tried, it will not work because olnly God has the keys to faith. But now these sects tell us that God changed his orders and ordered him to go and fight and force the poeople to believe in him whether tney like it or not.

That is why they abrogated the verses in the Koran that outlines the prophet's responsibility. The sects claimed that verse 9-29 and verse 9-5 (sword verses) abrogated those verses.

[Bigmo]

@Bigmo, seems like you missed this verse


وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الذِّكْرَ لِتُبَيِّنَ لِلنَّاسِ مَا نُزِّلَ إِلَيْهِمْ وَلَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ
(16-44) Translation: “We have revealed to you (O Muhammad) the message (al-Qur'an) so that you can explain to the people what was revealed to them, in order that they may reflect.”
It is apparent from the above verse that Rasulullah [Sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam]'s mission was also to explain the Qur'an and hence Allah ordered us to obey Rasulullah [Sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam]. [Muhsin Khan translation]

Tafsir Ibn Khatir
﴿وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الذِّكْرَ﴾
(And We have also revealed the Dhikr to you), meaning the Qur'an,
﴿لِتُبَيِّنَ لِلنَّاسِ مَا نُزِّلَ إِلَيْهِمْ﴾
(so that you may clearly explain to men what was revealed to them,) meaning, sent down from their Lord, because you know the meaning of what Allah has revealed to you, and because of your understanding and adherence to it, and because We know that you are the best of creation and the leader of the Children of Adam. So that you may explain in detail what has been mentioned in brief, and explain what is not clear.
﴿وَلَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ﴾
(so that perhaps they may reflect.) meaning, they should examine themselves and be guided by it, so that they may attain the victory of salvation in this world and the next.





So what do you say about this verse. It clearly says Mohammad (saw) has to explain the Quran to the people which you deny was part of his job.

Read the verse again. It says we have brought down the KORAN to you so that you may explain. The way the prophet will explain is the Koran. That is how he can explain. Without the Koran he can not. Notice the Koran mentions only ONE revelation that came to him while the sects say he had TWO revelations. One they claim was available to the public (the Koran) the other they say was available to only a few authorities that emerged centuries after the prophet passed away.

[Bigmo]

There is also an aya in the Qur'an that teaches us how to "bash" our wives.
And there are several ayas that specifically lays out what should not be tolerated.
And there are ayats that explain the time to take up arms.

He just quoted an innocent hadith that makes you think about the value of praying and you stir the thread towards your own thesis - "ahadith validate the culture of violence in the muslim world."


not cool.

Bash wife interpretation comes form hadith. The only war the Koran recognizes is defensive war. The Sunnis and Shias have conquest wars and speading Islam. There is no term in the Koran called ghazu(conquest). The sects claim the prophet wrote letters to foreign rulers giving them two choices. Either they accept Islam(coercion) and pay the Jizya(tax) or they face war. This violates the Koran. Prophets in the Koran are not allowed to ask money or compensation except for charity.

Of course all the Mulsim rulers now can have conquest and impose taxes and this has been the case in Islamic history. This is not Islam.