THE BIG DEBATE: What was the madhab of Imaam Abu Haneefah?

[Catya Sher]

Re GYE: That's very reasonable approach. Teach them nicely, suggest a better way
than more superstition-oriented ones.

I would like to find out : Has ANY Sufi leader spoken out against the NATO
invasion of Afghanistan ?

This area has not been well reported.

I see it as really an important barometer of the authenticity of
Afghan Sufis - there is probably an entire spectrum.

It would be good to delve into this topic which has interested me
for some time.

[Catya Sher]

Re Sk's: are they really that bad at these shrines?

How widespread in fact are those disgusting practices these days ?

Is there any way to gauge how bad the situation actually is -
and has it gotten WORSE over time?
If so over what period, and why??

Terrible, if so.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Not all shrines are that bad. But some shrines are hijacked by crooked people like the pimps and drug pushers who were targeted at Abdurrahman Baba's shrine.

[Catya Sher]

I see. It's a shame that shrines are so twisted into dens of evil !

Well there are crooks, scoundrels and at minimum, pickpockets preying upon those making the Haj or Umra, so it's everywhere and should be
rooted out instead of let to get worse.

[شمله ور خراساني]

The Sufis were so mad when they shrines were being blown up. They said, if there is evil near a shrine, you people blow it up. But why dont you people blow up Kaba in Makkah and the prophetic mosque in Madina?

Sadly for Sufis some random shrine of some random sufi is the same as holy sites in Islam.

[Alchemist]

The Sufis were so mad when they shrines were being blown up. They said, if there is evil near a shrine, you people blow it up. But why dont you people blow up Kaba in Makkah and the prophetic mosque in Madina?

Sadly for Sufis some random shrine of some random sufi is the same as holy sites in Islam.

History


The cemetery in the past


When Muhammad arrived at Medina from Mecca in September 622, Al-Baqi was a land covered with Lycium shawii boxthorn trees.
During the construction of the al-Masjid al-Nabawi, on the site he purchased from two orphan children when he arrived after his migration from Mecca to Medina, Asa'ad Bin Zararah one of Muhammad's companions died. Muhammad chose the spot to be a cemetery and Asa'ad was the first individual to be buried in Al-Baqi cemetery among the Ansar.
While Muhammad was outside Medina for the Battle of Badr, his daughter Ruqayyah fell sick and died in 624.
Shortly after Muhammad arrived from Badr, Uthman bin Maz'oon died and was buried in al-Baqi'. He was considered the first companion of Muhammad from the Muhajirun to be buried in Al-Baqi' Cemetery.
The first enlargement of the cemetery in history was made by Muawiyah I, the first Umayyad leader. He bought the huge neighbouring farm where Uthman ibn Affan was buried inside Al-Baqi' cemetery. The Umayyad Caliphate built the first dome in Al-Baqi' over his grave. During different times of history many domes and structures were built or rebuilt over many famous graves in Al-Baqi'.
[edit] Demolished Shrines


Cemetery is near the Mosque of the Prophet


On April 21, 1925, mausoleums in al-Baqi' were demolished by King Ibn Saud of Saudi Arabia. In the same year, he also demolished the tombs of holy personalities at Jannatul Mualla in Makkah where Muhammad's mother, wife, grandfather and other ancestors are buried. This happened despite protest by the international Islamic community.
The destruction of sacred sites in the Hejaz initiated by Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab continues today to prevent what some consider to be the practice of grave-worshipping, revering the dead and asking favours of the dead buried there.[2] Many of these mausoleums, domes and structures, originally intended to identify famous companions of Muhammad, were destroyed upon the urging of Wahhabi scholars who argued, in accordance with Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab's ideology, that Muhammad forbade the building of structures over any grave.[3][4] According to these scholars, adornment or beautification of graves is forbidden in order to prevent people from seeking a means of approach to God through the dead and to directly seek help from the dead. Despite this, the graves of many historic figures continue to be visited by numerous pilgrims, and burials continue at the cemetery to this day.
Many Shi'i Muslims continue to mourn the day the House of Saud demolished shrines in al-Baqi'. They remember it as yaum e gham or Day of Sorrow. Shi'i Muslims continue to protest the Saudi government's demolition of these shrines.
[edit] Important personalities buried at Jannat al-Baqi

Direct kin of Muhammad:

• All of the wives of Muhammad (also known as Mothers of the Believers), including Hafsa, Zainab etc., except for Khadijah bint Khuwaylid and Maymuna bint al-Harith
• Ibrahim, Muhammad's son by Maria al-Qibtiyya, died in infancy
• Roqayyah, Muhammad's daughter
• Fatima bint al-Asad, aunt of Muhammad and mother of Ali; other aunts including Safiya and Aatika
• Fatima Zahra, Muhammad's daughter by first wife Khadijah bint Khuwaylid, in an unknown grave
• ‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib, uncle of Muhammad
• Fatima bint Hizam, known as Umm ul-Banin, who married Ali after the death of Fatimah; mother of four children who died with Hussain ibn Ali
• Hasan ibn Ali, grandson of Muhammad, son of Fatimah and Ali
• ‘Alī ibn Ḥusayn, known as Zayn al-Abidin, grandson of Fatima Zahra
• Muhammad al-Baqir, son of ‘Alī ibn Ḥusayn
• Ja’far as-Sadiq, son of Muhammad al-Baqir

Other important personalities

• Uthman ibn Affan, companion of Muhammad and third Caliphate
• Uthman Bin Mazoun, companion of Muhammad
• Malik ibn Anas, Islamic jurist
• Mohammad Hayya Al-Sindhi, scholar
• Imam Shamil, Dagestan leader
• Muhammad Sayyid Tantawy, scholar
• Idris of Libya, King of Libya
• Hasan as-Senussi, Crown Prince of Libya

[maneatinglizard]

Most sufis not only do listen to music, in Afghanistan they are the ones who play musical instruments.


In fact, most famous songs and poems sang by famous singers in Afghanistan are in reality sufi poetry which were popularized by Sufi singers who used musical instruments to spread their beliefs.

Besides the fact that you can't even prove your claim, a person who calls himself a sufi is not automatically sufi just because he claims so.

The majority of sufi Ulema reject music, plain and simple.

Then again, since you clearly are an ignorant person who has rejected reasoning, I don't expect you to realize that the claimants to a methodology do not necessarily represent that methodology, and instead I direct you to this:

gulfnews : Scholars divided over imam's fatwa on music

I guess we can conclude, as you wrongly have, that Salafis accept music, and so they must be evil.

[maneatinglizard]

FYI, jahil means ignorant. Someone who does not know. So a "jahil question" means what exactly? LOL

Questions of an ignorant person (ignoramus), or questions of an ignorant nature.

Take your pick.

[maneatinglizard]

Commander Dawran Khan is famous. You might not know him, but the Salafis in Kunar are well known.

They're well known as backstabbing ****. (This isn't a curse word. I said s c u m)

Seriously, your citation of the Salafis of Kunar to make your case just goes to show how desperate you are. Next we'll see you cite Sayaf. At least he's probably better than the Kunari Salafis.

If don't want to believe it, fine. Don't. Next time you are in Kunar, visit Asmaar and ask somebody.

Salafism in Kunar, while probably as big as you will find its ugly head in Afghanistan, is no where near as big as you and your Madkhali cronies make it out to be.

It's well known that Hizbi Islam and the Taliban have strength there as well, but the Salafis have (as I mentioned there before) hijacked the Jihad there for themselves, just like they did during Jamil ar-Rahman's era.

I've already pointed out a few flaws with your claim that Dawran is a Salafi.

The proof is, Salafis from Kunar that I know know him and thousands of others like him.

In fact, it was the Salafis from Kunar who convinced me that Deobandism is not the right way of practicing Islam.

It's unfortunate that you were pulled in to the Madkhalia then.

I am not desperate, dude.

Desperate are the Sufis deny the existence of Salafis in Afghanistan because they think that by denying this, they somehow can invalidate any criticism and objection against their loyalty and support for the American invasion of Afghanistan.

Note, that the groupies of Hamza Yusuf and Nu Ha Meem Keller on PF ( Mujib, Haneef, Lizardman etc) are the ones who braught this up.

I don't care who the mujahedeen in Afghanistan are. As long as they are not graveworshiping boyloving pot-heads I support them.

I have never seen these graveworshiping Sufis ever expressing their support for the same people they try to label as "sufis" ( the taliban). I have never seen them denouncing American invasion of Afghanistan.

Instead, the hindu guru, Nu Ha Meem Keller had the guts to criticize the Taliban.

And here we have Mujib singh who seems to be a mureed of Keller claiming that Taliban are Sufis.

I highly doubt anything Shaikh Nuh said against the Taliban is as bad as what this Salafi mobster said about them:

...Usaamah bin Laadin and his group, the Talibaan. About these we know that they are Deobandiyyah Sufiyyah Quburiyyah (Grave worshipers)...

...Yet they (The Taaliban) used to seek help from the Americans in the war against the russians. And there is more information the future will reveal. And neither am I in need to say how oppressive USA is, because this is clear. USA is a Christian and insidious country, and this is not needed to be clarified by me...

Let's ignore the fact that this ignorant Salafi doesn't even know the history of the group he's slandering, and note his vile words.

Source:
SalafiTalk.Net

In response to all of those videos posted by mr Salafi:

The U.S. could discretely fund mainstream Salafi figures like Madkhali who are effective in siphoning off support from jihadis and who do not advocate violence (e.g. by paying for publications, lectures, new schools).

Source:
Powered by Google Docs

[graveyardofempires]

They're well known as backstabbing ****. (This isn't a curse word. I said s c u m)

Seriously, your citation of the Salafis of Kunar to make your case just goes to show how desperate you are. Next we'll see you cite Sayaf. At least he's probably better than the Kunari Salafis.



Salafism in Kunar, while probably as big as you will find its ugly head in Afghanistan, is no where near as big as you and your Madkhali cronies make it out to be.

It's well known that Hizbi Islam and the Taliban have strength there as well, but the Salafis have (as I mentioned there before) hijacked the Jihad there for themselves, just like they did during Jamil ar-Rahman's era.

I've already pointed out a few flaws with your claim that Dawran is a Salafi.



It's unfortunate that you were pulled in to the Madkhalia then.



I highly doubt anything Shaikh Nuh said against the Taliban is as bad as what this Salafi mobster said about them:



Let's ignore the fact that this ignorant Salafi doesn't even know the history of the group he's slandering, and note his vile words.

Source:
SalafiTalk.Net

In response to all of those videos posted by mr Salafi:

The U.S. could discretely fund mainstream Salafi figures like Madkhali who are effective in siphoning off support from jihadis and who do not advocate violence (e.g. by paying for publications, lectures, new schools).

Source:
Powered by Google Docs

you moron
dont talk non sense about people of Kunar to stregthen your sufi argument.

[maneatinglizard]

you moron
dont talk non sense about people of Kunar to stregthen your sufi argument.

I think you misunderstood me.

I have nothing against Kunar or its people, and I already said I wasn't sufi.

My statements were made specifically against the Salafis of Kunar, who belong to the very dangerous sub sect called Madkhali.

Like I said, these people fought against the Taliban, cooperated with the Karzai government, and now claim to have joined the Taliban, while they are most likely just waiting for an opportunity to take over Kunar again.

I'd suggest you read through those posts completely, and, if you can point out anywhere where I have attacked the people of Kunar, point it out to me, and I'll change it, because that was not my intent.

Salam Alaikum

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

This is the reason why I follow scholars of Ahlul Hadeeth rather than Hanafis. Because they combine all the evidence regarding a certain matter and then derive a ruling.

I was wrong.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

The methodology of Ahlul Hadeeth is to take from all schools that which is most strong opinion founded on sound evidence.

I no longer believe this is true.