Ayesha's (ra) age?

[badmash_khel]

What is the strongest position in Hanafi fiqh regarding Ayesha's (ra) age at marriage?

I personally don't believe She (ra) was 6 years old when Mohammad (saw) asked for her hand and 9 years age when the marriage was consumated.

I believe it goes against the teachings of the Qur'an as she was not an adult and so could not make up her mind at the age of 6?

6 years old is too young to have reached a resonable stage where one could make such a big decision and in Islam nobody can be forced to marry against their will, not even the father.

so what is your opinion about this issue?

Everyone is welcome to discuss with proof and logic. I would prefer only muslims to discuss this but non muslims can contribute if their intention is seeking knowledge and finding out the truth.

NO COPY AND PASTE FROM OTHER WEBSITES. YOU CAN QUOTE AND GIVE LINKS THOUGH.

[KhyberKhan]

Who cares, honestly, other than non-muslims that try to use it as ammunition?

Look, the greatest man that lived on this earth married the daughter of one of the noblest men at the time, which in turn made her one of the top five narrators of hadith in magnitude.

So much of our religion and its duties are thus derived from this blessed marriage. As a muslim I will never have an issue with it.

This is my opinion.

[KhyberKhan]

Badmash_khel, a quick question for you...

Can you name a single culture in the 7th century CE wherein marriages for women between 8-10 were not commonplace?

Let us please tackle this step by step and point for point without digressing from the point. God willing, it will be more constructive that way.

Thank you.

[KhyberKhan]

I believe it goes against the teachings of the Qur'an as she was not an adult and so could not make up her mind at the age of 6?

In 1515 King Louis II of Transylvania wed Maria Habsburg at the age of 9. King Louis II was the opponent of the Ottoman Sultan Sulayman "the Magnificent" so he is very well known in history and his life is very well documented.

In 1785 Princess Carlota Joaquina, daughter of Charles IV of Spain, wed João VI of Portugal. She was 10 years old. Again, this is a famous royal figure whose life is, likewise, thoroughly documented.

Serbian king Milutin married Byzantine princess Simonida when she was age 5.When king Milutin agreed to marry Simonida (and get nice chunks of Greece along with her) he also agreed to stay out of her bed chamber until she turns 13. He didn't and as a result Simonida was STILL unable to give him children.

There are scores of examples like these all throughout the medieval and modern history of Europe. Even in the census records of the Netherlands there is record of a Gretta Mae Bosscher who was wed at the age of 10 as recent as 1947!

So not only were marriages of women below the age of 10 commonplace throughout Europe up until the 20th century, it was the practice of the ELITE. These weren't illiterate peasants. This was the standard practice of royalty.

So please, dear Badmash_khel, praytell, based upon what exactly do you cry foul? Should the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) have lived his life according to standards of 21st century North America or was he to encourage a moral lifestyle within the framework of the existing sociological context he lived in?

I hope better sense prevails...

[Karachi]

Badmash_khel, a quick question for you...

Can you name a single culture in the 7th century CE wherein marriages for women between 8-10 were not commonplace?

Let us please tackle this step by step and point for point without digressing from the point. God willing, it will be more constructive that way.

Thank you.

True, but some people try to apply that even know by marrying so young. is this accepted in today's world?

also I am not an expert on Islam but I dont think there is any conclusive evidence for her age, she could be any where from 9 to 18. so I dont think muslims should even say (9) as her age when this is a assumption

[Talib Jan]

Please watch to get a clearer understanding of the blessed marriage to Hazrat A`isha (Allah be pleased with her).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLlRcefr5vU

[Alchemist]

flogging that old horse

What is the strongest position in Hanafi fiqh regarding Ayesha's (ra) age at marriage?

I personally don't believe She (ra) was 6 years old when Mohammad (saw) asked for her hand and 9 years age when the marriage was consumated.

I believe it goes against the teachings of the Qur'an as she was not an adult and so could not make up her mind at the age of 6?

6 years old is too young to have reached a resonable stage where one could make such a big decision and in Islam nobody can be forced to marry against their will, not even the father.

so what is your opinion about this issue?

Everyone is welcome to discuss with proof and logic. I would prefer only muslims to discuss this but non muslims can contribute if their intention is seeking knowledge and finding out the truth.

NO COPY AND PASTE FROM OTHER WEBSITES. YOU CAN QUOTE AND GIVE LINKS THOUGH.

What you believe doesn't amount to the dirt you will turn into eventually.


You can believe that she was 16 and you can believe that the in Qur'an adult is some specific age..but that doesn't mean that what you believe has to be true ...because you believe it.

How old do you "believe" Maryam (A.S) was when she gave birth to Jesus (pbuh)? How old do you "believe" the boy was that Al Khadir Killed? How old do you believe Fatima (A.S) was when she was wed to Ali (kariammalhu wajhu)? How old were the youngest boys at the battle of badr?
In reality no one knows what age any of them were for sure but they guess.

What we have here is a case of Jahiliya - not knowing.

In the olden days people didn't care about "how old" they were. It wasn't a common custom for people to track the day of their birth or verify their identity by that date. People were not bunched together on the basis of their age, and had expectations of their abilities. And rightly so. Often you hear of a boy or girl that hasn't even reached puberty but has already completed college. You might even hear of girls younger than 6 to give birth to a child. Is that wrong because it doesn't fit into your ambiguous notions of what a 6 year old or a nine year old ought to be able to do?
Right now there are 6 year old and 9 year old bussinessmen who make more money than you do. Hard to believe? I am sure ...but does it mean they don't exist? Only if you want to believe that...

then again, it maybe that your conception of what a marriage ought to be is not the same as what their conception of marriage was. And that again is a difference in attitude and beliefs that you have with them. And it could be an indication of how different your mindset is from them, but that doesn't mean that they were wrong and you are right. Times have changed, so the function of social institutions have changed as well. In a society that highly regards kinship marriage is a means of formalizing relationships. Today's individualistic culture associates marriage with intrarelational schisms ...not getting along with the "in laws" and so forth. This is well portrayed in the media, where marriage is vent of one's lustful desires for "personal" union and intimacy. Which maybe why this particular relationship of the Holy Prophet, seems to be so problematic for so many. Until a hundred years ago even marriages by the age of 6 or 9 were not unheard of and were considered the norm. Then came the times for "emancipation" of women's "right". And now you are left to wonder, if really women were traded without their own consent at the young tender age of 6, when they have yet to become an "individual" and "find who you are". And so we have women four times older still not having "reason" enough to give "consent"...for what? LOL

Anyway...the more I write the more confusing I ll get...

transmission ends.

[faye]

sounds like an overcompensating excuse, alchemist.
in those days it appears to have been normal for child brides up to more modern times, in some societies.
hence, i don't take that into account when reading from the qu'ran.

[Alchemist]

, i don't take that into account when reading from the qu'ran.

[faye]

now that retort is a fine example of robotism. lack of personal creative imagination.
is that the best you can come up with alchemist? even alfie the remora, does better than that. this is what happens i guess when children are allowed access to the computer. how old did you say you are?

[faye]

oh, that's right, 40 and never been kissed. that would surely make you an authority on women. you should get over to the feminist thread and give us your wisdom on women.

[IamDZJ]

i am pretty sure there is a good explanation behind it so instead of acting like an idiot as if someone asked you for an arm or a leg, either answer the question in a civil manner which was requested by badmash or eff off.
and khayberkhan what do you mean "who cares"? obviously we do. not just so we can explain it to non muslims but for ourselves too. we can't just say he was a prophet and he did it so it must be alright for the rest of us to do so too. there has to be more to it and i am sure there is.

[کیش]

Narrated 'Aisha: That the Prophet said to her, "You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and some-one said (to me). 'This is your wife.' When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done."
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:235, Sahih Bukhari 9:87:140

Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Sahih Bukhari 7:62:88

Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:234


Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I never remembered my parents believing in any religion other than the true religion (i.e. Islam), and (I don't remember) a single day passing without our being visited by Allah’s Apostle in the morning and in the evening."
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:245



Narrated Urwa bin Al-Musayyab, Alqama bin Waqqas and Ubaidullah bin Abdullah: About the story of 'Aisha and their narrations were similar attesting each other, when the liars said what they invented about 'Aisha, and the Divine Inspiration was delayed, Allah's Apostle sent for 'Ali and Usama to consult them in divorcing his wife (i.e. 'Aisha). Usama said, "Keep your wife, as we know nothing about her except good." Buraira said, "I cannot accuse her of any defect except that she is still a young girl who sleeps, neglecting her family's dough which the domestic goats come to eat (i.e. she was too simpleminded to deceive her husband)." Allah's Apostle said, "Who can help me to take revenge over the man who has harmed me by defaming the reputation of my family? By Allah, I have not known about my family-anything except good, and they mentioned (i.e. accused) a man about whom I did not know anything except good."
Sahih Bukhari 3:48:805

[Afghanistan2010]

This has been greatly explained "Not only by the fuqaha of Al-Hanaf (from the school of Abu Hanifa (rah) ) but by all the scholars of all the times" and you can look it up,due to my exams im not in the position to clearfy all your points,yet i want to add one thing.

"She may Allah be pleased with her was the only virgin the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him ) married."

[DaMalakandGhar]

Badmash_khel, a quick question for you...

Can you name a single culture in the 7th century CE wherein marriages for women between 8-10 were not commonplace?

Let us please tackle this step by step and point for point without digressing from the point. God willing, it will be more constructive that way.

Thank you.

What a non-sense. A religion that claims to be the highest moral code and true till eternity should not set such bad precedence and should not sanctify abhorrent social practices of the time. Simply putting the label of Islam on existing traditions doesn't change things on the ground. No sane person today can justify marrying babies 6 years old.