90 Iraqi teenagers stoned to death for haircuts

[haviZsultan]

^ I dont care for MQM for altaf, I have never supported MQM, my own uncle was injured by them, so no question of supporting them. also when pakistanis are insulted unjustly I try to defend them, you can check my previous posts, but I personally dont care if pakistani government/army/ISI are insulted, I have no loyalties to them, they have brought nothing but harm to every body

also as for pakistan, they really need get one thing straight, if religion was never a issue, why was pakistan even made? Pakistanis are lost actually, they dont really know who they are, they have huge identity crisis and they dont know who to follow, Islam or secularism, they are a very confused bunch and this is the reason the whole society there is in such chaos and mess

I agree though, that extremism has to be erased, that is very dangerous, that should be the number one priority, however I dont think it will happen since the every thing is corrupted in pakistan, you can never rely on any thing in pakistan

My point was not to question your loyalty to Pakistan (though I am glad you are not another MQM supporter).

But why do we need an Altaf anyway, why do we need the Hoti's. Islam was supposed to bond us? We shouldn't need ANP, MQM's and BNP which are largely ethnic parties. Aren't we Muslims? Isn't that supposed to gel us together. Why do we still feel we have to stick to our own little groups. Why has race come in the way. Why do people like Damalakandghar feel they are being oppressed by the center. Has Islam stopped him from becoming rebellious?

There is an identity crisis which is caused because we tried to impose Islam. Now the youth don't know what they want because their parents have always taught them about the superiority of Islam and it being a way of life (that should be imposed)... on the other hand they themselves are seeing how different interpretations of Islam are causing their land to burn. They are confused as a result and don't know what to believe.

Imposing religion never works and instead we should have focused on freedom and ensuring equal rights instead of introducing biased laws like the blasphemy laws which cause a poor Christian man to be stoned to death by Islamist mobs without punishment. The prophet said

“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.” (Abu Dawud)

So are we following Islam

Secularism is not incompatible with Islam. In fact under Uthman, Ali, even when Mohammed bin Qasim came we had a level of tolerance. A kind of secular environment. Religion was never forced down the throat of people. This is exactly what we are doing now.

Extremism isn't just within the Taliban. Its actually become the marrow within our bones. Its a National problem. We just need to tolerate. I believe extremism has been partly caused because we tried to impose Islam in the past. Look at what our Islamic school books teach. Of course we'll have killers like the taliban imposing religion.

Secularism does not mean Islam will die. It means Islam will flourish minus the intolerance that has gripped us. When the state tries to interfere in peoples religions the result is always negative. I will hopefully start a thread where such a discussion can take place.

[Karachi]

^ the nationalistic parties are there because we never really became a nation, I mean yes we love to cheer the pakistani cricket team and yes we bond when ever there is a war with India, but other then that we were never a single united nation. The ethnic problems in pakistan have been there from day 1 of the creation

As for Islam, I agree with you. The biggest problem with pakistani brand of Islam has been (extremism). This has to be fixed and I agree this was there way before even Taliban. It has to do with how we learn Islam in Pakistan, it's basically by the stick, this causes us to become extremists. The whole society needs to accept this way of learning Islam is wrong and need to develop better civilized ways to learn Islam.

[roadrunner]

Read what you wrote have.

Secularism is incompatible with Islam and then secularism will allow Islam to flourish.

Contradictory. Secularism and Islam are compatible. Secularism in an Islamic star may not be compatible. An Islamic population is a secular state IS compatible.

[Old School Killiwal]

Read what you wrote have.

Secularism is incompatible with Islam and then secularism will allow Islam to flourish.

Contradictory. Secularism and Islam are compatible. Secularism in an Islamic star may not be compatible. An Islamic population is a secular state IS compatible.

stay off the booze.

[randolph85]

i don't know why persia is going on about wahabi iraqis when it was a secular iraqi that fought a war against iran. persia is trying to rally against the same people saddam had under his foot during his rule.

[Persia]

Why are my posts being deleted? For what reason? I am showing what the ground realities are in Iraq. What is wrong with that? Their extremism/wahhabism is well-known. The Iraqi Sunnis are brothers in arms with their Saudi Wahhabi Arab neighbours.

Iraq has always been a place were extremists were either Islamic fanatics or Arab nationalists.

Nobody commented their killing of 27 innocent Shias in Damaskus?

People say that it is a lie when people get killed for haircuts in brought daylight?

Them watch this if you do not believe.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=66f_1331855655

[haviZsultan]

^ the nationalistic parties are there because we never really became a nation, I mean yes we love to cheer the pakistani cricket team and yes we bond when ever there is a war with India, but other then that we were never a single united nation. The ethnic problems in pakistan have been there from day 1 of the creation

As for Islam, I agree with you. The biggest problem with pakistani brand of Islam has been (extremism). This has to be fixed and I agree this was there way before even Taliban. It has to do with how we learn Islam in Pakistan, it's basically by the stick, this causes us to become extremists. The whole society needs to accept this way of learning Islam is wrong and need to develop better civilized ways to learn Islam.

I agree. My thought is going along the lines that if Pakistan was supposed to be bonded by Islam then our religion was supposed to strengthen us and unite us. Proponents of Azad Pashtunistan, Sindhu Desh and Azad Balochistan should have been stopped because our country is 'Islamic'... It means Islamist theory has failed to gel us strongly enough.

Read what you wrote have.

Secularism is incompatible with Islam and then secularism will allow Islam to flourish.

Contradictory. Secularism and Islam are compatible. Secularism in an Islamic star may not be compatible. An Islamic population is a secular state IS compatible.

Let me say clearly. Islam and Secularism are not incompatible concepts. We have been raised to believe Secularism cannot work or is UnIslamic. I just believe the imposition of Islam on anyway people forcefully is wrong... exactly what is going on in Pakistan.