Pashtun First Or Muslim First?

[Michin Khel]

Islam is my faith and i try to apply it on all aspects of my life. In the world my identity is pakistani, within pakistan my identity is pashtun. Within khyber pakhtunkhwa my identity is marwat. Within lakki marwat my identity is machin khel....

[Badlun]

It is like asking some one are you first a student or a son. Both are mutually exclusive things. By religion I am Muslim by ethnicity I am Pashtun. Both are not two stages of one sequence that one come first and then the second. I am first Muslim and I am first Pashtun. I am first Human being and I am first a son , a brother, a friend and so on

This is really a strange question asking some one you are first Pashtun or Muslim. Historically and chronologically Pashtuns as a race come first as they have more than 5000 years old history while Islam in the present form is 1433 years old.

Genetically and biologically one is first born a Pashtun from Pashtun parents and then may be after few years one knows what is religion and the identity being a Muslim or atheist etc.

Being Pashtun is different as its anthropological, racial, ethnic, cultural and social. While being Muslim is different which means religious(faith, worship and ethics)

[BarakzaiAbdali]

It is like asking some one are you first a student or a son. Both are mutually exclusive things. By religion I am Muslim by ethnicity I am Pashtun. Both are not two stages of one sequence that one come first and then the second. I am first Muslim and I am first Pashtun. I am first Human being and I am first a son , a brother, a friend and so on

This is really a strange question asking some one you are first Pashtun or Muslim. Historically and chronologically Pashtuns as a race come first as they have more than 5000 years old history while Islam in the present form is 1433 years old.

Genetically and biologically one is first born a Pashtun from Pashtun parents and then may be after few years one knows what is religion and the identity being a Muslim or atheist etc.

Being Pashtun is different as its anthropological, racial, ethnic, cultural and social. While being Muslim is different which means religious(faith, worship and ethics)

Well the question is not really asking that. You are trying to literalize it to evade it.

Its like the question the Americans may ask themselves: Are we southerners first and northerners first... or republicans first or democrats first or are we Americans first?

Its a philosophical question.

The idea is that the Ghani family's quote has been perhaps misused to guilt intellectual Pashtuns into adherence to a collective identity apart from a theoligical colletive identity, i.e. it is attempting to bring these two views at logger heads.

What is ironic is that usually these same people decry tribalism... meaning that they shun the Durrani and Ghilzai and Mehsud and Wazir divisions and claim that these divisions are what made Pashtuns weak. So they then advocate that Pashtuns ought to, from Kandahar to Kabul to Peshawar to jalalabad view themselves as a collective whole.

Its basically taking 1 view of how one may classify themselves and stretch the boundaries to cover ethnicity alone.

Identities are demarcated by some people across the world as: religous, country oriented, ethnic group, etc.

So these folks are basically saying to Pashtuns with affinity or concern for a group that shares kinship traits of religion, to stop doing so against the ethnic kinship grouping.

It boils down to an ethical question... here is the better phrasing:

If one believes that they must, prefer their ethnic group at all costs, does this mean that if members of their ethnic group make decisions that contradict what one believes to be God given law, that it must be abided by?

Soldat will attempt to interject here that I am advocating Islamic law while living abroad and the usual nonsensical garbage. I am not doing that. I am commenting simply on what that question means.

For instance, if a Pashtun leader decides, within a Muslim state, that nonessential businesses are not obligated to let their workers pray, should he be followed simply because he is Pashtun?

Or for instance... if a Pashtun leader sanctions a man marrying an atheist or an open idolator female, and then makes this the law of the land... does he have the right to demand his denizens respect his rule?

Or even these questions are trivial... but on the international arena, if a Pashtun leader decides that its OK for foreign nations, whether they be China, Russia, or America to construct military bases on that soil... which is in direct contradiction to all liberal, conservative and in between schools of Islamic theology... does he simply demand our allegience because he is a Pashtun?

Or if you have a lazy Pashtun competing against a sharp Tajik for an academic spot, (not saying we are lazy just using an example), does he automatically have the right to that position?

Such notions are very Qatari if you ask me... or very Arab dictator state like despite the deep hatred these folks share for the Arab client states.

[randolph85]

36 percent has signs of clear potential.

if you are so fond of pashtuns, why are u hostile to islam? the fact is that most pashtuns practice islam, yet while claiming to champion the cause of pashtuns, u disparage islam. that alone would just be ignorance, what is hilariously stupid is that u supported the russian occupation of afghanistan. u are a living contradiction. russians not only wiped out the religious identity of the central asian countries they conquered, but also their cultural identity.

shave facial hair, wear suits and ties, speak russian....pashtun pride, yall!

[Badlun]

Pashtunwali and Islam never clash. Pashtunwali determine your race, ethnicity, culture, society, some politics, may be geography, may be economy , history as Pashtuns etc while Islam just determine your beliefs, worship and religious morality.

Pashtunwali does not have any belief in any supernatural being, angels, prophets, Quran, Here after, day of judgement, hell, heavens, prayers, fasting, hajj, zakat or don't kill, dont tell lie etc. This is all Islam.

So how being a Pashtun and being a Muslim will clash? Never as they are mutually exclusive.One does not come first and the other second. These may be two straight parallel lines but not one line in sequence.

[sunni]

whoever says pashtuns first or he is pashtun when its come to race's he is MONAFIQ and trying to excuse his jahalat.

[graveyardofempires]

most who chose pashtun first are confused or not pashtuns at all ,as we can see a number of members here are not pashtuns.

[Zmarak]

I'm amazed 23 of you consider yourselves Pashtuns first when you were previously unable to consistently define one.

Most appear to be a hormonally imbalanced cross hybrid of western beavis and butthead culture, Pashtun, and some Eastern influence (Punjabi or Persian/Tajik).

It's probably more safe to say you're Muslim.

First I will address this. Regardless of whether or not your above comment contains degrees of truith or not is irrelevant. The method in which you deliver the message and the spirit of it is consistent with everything else you post. My point - This individual has over 1000 posts at present. He is not Muslim and I don't believe that he is Pashtun but am not certain on this. What I do know is that over half of his posts consist of cleverly worded provocative comments against Muslims, Pashtuns and the general membership of this forum. His presence here seems to focus on the dissemenation of hostile, reactionary comments inserted into random threads that seem to serve no actual purpose other than to spread fitnah, confusion and hostility amongst the members here and very little else. Why is he allowed to remain? Has he not abused hospitality by his deeds? However... it's not my forum and I'm not tolerant in any way of such people.

On topic - This poll's results are inaccurate. As those of us with common sense know, kuffar voted in this poll... some of them multiple times in an attempt to spread a personal agenda. Yes, they take the internet this seriously. In real life, Muslims should understand that Islam is in direct conflict with nationalism and ethno-centric worldviews. There is no shortage of authentic hadith and Quranic references regarding this subject for us to study. We are all Muslims first. We are not a race, ethnic group, tribe, nationality - We are Muslims. THEN we belong to our respective ethnic group, tribe, etc. Having said that, I obviously fully respect my Pashtun identity in the most serious and genuine way and believe that all Muslims should treat their own ethnic identity and culture with the same sentiment. But always bear in mind that you are Muslim FIRST. This is the sunnah and there is no way around it, no way of interpreting it to fit any man made agenda.

[khushal]

Pashtunwali and Islam never clash. Pashtunwali determine your race, ethnicity, culture, society, some politics, may be geography, may be economy , history as Pashtuns etc while Islam just determine your beliefs, worship and religious morality.

Pashtunwali does not have any belief in any supernatural being, angels, prophets, Quran, Here after, day of judgement, hell, heavens, prayers, fasting, hajj, zakat or don't kill, dont tell lie etc. This is all Islam.

So how being a Pashtun and being a Muslim will clash? Never as they are mutually exclusive.One does not come first and the other second. These may be two straight parallel lines but not one line in sequence.

You are wrong, pashtunwali and islam do clash on certain aspects.
1)divorce, pashtunwali denies this while Islam allows it.
2)Pashtunwali preaches badal as obligatory while Islam preaches mercy and forgiveness
3)pashtunwali gives inheretance to male members only while Islam gives it to both sexes
etc, there are much harsher pashtunwali laws I can list.

you are either extremely incompetent or you lie to promote your egenda. It is unethical of you to promote the harsher pashtunwali against the much more merciful Islam.

[Khostai]

You are wrong, pashtunwali and islam do clash on certain aspects.
1)divorce, pashtunwali denies this while Islam allows it.
2)Pashtunwali preaches badal as obligatory while Islam preaches mercy and forgiveness
3)pashtunwali gives inheretance to male members only while Islam gives it to both sexes
etc, there are much harsher pashtunwali laws I can list.

you are either extremely incompetent or you lie to promote your egenda. It is unethical of you to promote the harsher pashtunwali against the much more merciful Islam.

I don't have that much knowledge about Islam, but meybe you also saw it on tv, there was an Iranian women, one man wanted to marry her, but the woman didn't want to marry to him so she refused, the man got angry and trew acid in her face, she was really injured, and then the police arested the man and allowed the woman to trow acid on him in revange, they said it was allowed in Islam. But she forgive him and didn't do it. So is that also something like badal? I mean badal is taking revange, or is it Iran difrent becuase they are Shia?

Here is the women that I am talking about:

Iranian woman pardons man for acid attack - YouTube

[khushal]

I don't have that much knowledge about Islam, but meybe you also saw it on tv, there was an Iranian women, one man wanted to marry her, but the woman didn't want to marry to him so she refused, the man got angry and trew acid in her face, she was really injured, and then the police arested the man and allowed the woman to trow acid on him in revange, they said it was allowed in Islam. But she forgive him and didn't do it. So is that also something like badal? I mean badal is taking revange, or is it Iran difrent becuase they are Shia?

Here is the women that I am talking about:

Iranian woman pardons man for acid attack - YouTube

yes I did see this. this is a perfect example. Pashtunwali would have demanded the woman throw acid in his face because mercy would have been for the weak. Islam actually encourages the woman to have mercy and forgive the man for it takes a much stronger person to forgive and a weaker person to actually succumb to his/her anger and to take his/her revenge.

Ive seen in pashtun villages when a wrong is done to one party and that party forgives the perpatrator, people always give paghor to the victim for not taking revenge. This is because of pashtunwali. In islam the person would be respected and commended for having the strength to forgive.

People like Osho are immoral, they realize how harsh pahtun society was and is before Islam came to the region. His only agenda is to promote secularism in the region even if it means to promote harsh laws of pashtunwali.

[RangeeNa*]

muslim


so 34 people are pashtuns not muslims?

[badmash_khel]

Islam is not all merciful. Chopping off people heads if they revert from Isam, cutting off hands and limbs of thieves even if they commit the crime of theft in desperation, santification of slavery and polygamy, taking the wives, daughters, sisters, etc. of fallen enemy as kaneez and lhondis even having the right to sell them, imposing special tax on non-Muslims, etc. are things that are not found in Pashtunwali traditions. And such things can never be justified by a moralistic society.

This seems like a rant rather than a cohesive argument against Islamic morality. If you search this forum and look hard enough, you will find these accusations have been refuted. If you want to make a point then back it up with references and not your own opinion or that of some jahil mullahs.

[thegood]

This seems like a rant rather than a cohesive argument against Islamic morality. If you search this forum and look hard enough, you will find these accusations have been refuted. If you want to make a point then back it up with references and not your own opinion or that of some jahil mullahs.

Instead of that lame comment, give me one rational argument in support of death punishment for whoever reverts from Islam. Isn't it equally barbaric if not more than the laws of Pashtunwali? What about enslaving the women folk of defeated enemy and converting them into sex girls and women?

One argument that is given in support of slave-girl practice in Muslim morality is that, these women would not have anyone to feed them. Would not it be more noble and brave had these innocent women given a choice to be free than force them to live a life of indignity and humuliation?

Last, why not non-Muslim countries impose special tax on their Muslim citizens because Muslim morality has recommended one i.e., jazya for non-Muslims in their societies as well. What you do comes around.

[Mandharh]

First of all you say only muslims can vote so how can it go bcuz muslims outnumber pashtuns. second why you want islam to kill only pashtunism??