was there ever a proper islamic state?

[Karachi]

I was having a discussion with my religious friend and he said that through out the history of muslims, there was never a proper islamic state on a government level because even during all the early caliphs, the ruling elites were above the law, basically they could do anything and get away with it. The sharia laws did apply to the public but never to the rulers or people in government.

Bascially it was exactly like what we have today in the Gulf countries for example, where the royals are above the law and can do anything. The rulers were corrupt and even tyrant and they use to drink, have sex slaves, have harems etc.....


Isn't this really bad? that we never had a proper islamic state? we dont have any good examples to establish a new (islamic sharia state) in the future, because all the past ones were corrupt and evil.

[Alchemist]

Not true for during the times of Umar Ibn KHattab, Abu Bakr, Uthman and Ali and Hassan (radiallahu anhum).

There was no sense of "eliteness" for the leadership, so any who had a complained against their governor or mayor could complain to the khilafa and he'd be removed from his post... Abu Bakr's (ra) door was always open for ordinary people to walk in to...they didn't have guards or gates and secretaries to be reached through. And if you study the history you'll find that Umar, on many counts had governors and commanders replaced when he had heard complains of them. They were actually harsher on themselves when it came to sharia than others...

I think it is foolish for both you and your friend to debate a subject without being informed on it.

[Al Hanif]

What Alchemist said.

Don't forget the State-City of Medina under the rule of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) which is the perfect example to follow

And what's wrong with Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan ? (except for riba money, but what can you do against the whole world ?)

[Punjabi]

What Alchemist said.

Don't forget the State-City of Medina under the rule of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) which is the perfect example to follow

And what's wrong with Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan ? (except for riba money, but what can you do against the whole world ?)

What means " ( pbuh ) " ???

In punjabi it means " spider " nigguh

( is prophet muhammad a spider ) ???

[Al Hanif]

What means " ( pbuh ) " ???

In punjabi it means " spider " nigguh

peace be upon him =

que la paix soit sur lui

[Al Hanif]

Ça fait partie de la tradition.

Lorsque on cite le nom d'un prophète, on doit toujours le suivre d'une phrase respectueuse comme par exemple "que la paix soit sur lui".

Lorsque on dit le nom d'Allah, on doit toujours le suivre d'une phrase glorifiante comme par exemple (subhanahu wa ta'ala) "splendeur de sa majesté" ou jalla jallahu (tout-puissant et majestueux).

[Punjabi]

Ça fait partie de la tradition.

Lorsque on cite le nom d'un prophète, on doit toujours le suivre d'une phrase respectueuse comme par exemple "que la paix soit sur lui".

Lorsque on dit le nom d'Allah, on doit toujours le suivre d'une phrase glorifiante comme par exemple (subhanahu wa ta'ala) "splendeur de sa majesté" ou jalla jallahu (tout-puissant et majestueux).

Ah ok , j'ai honte d'avoir poser cette question

[Haris]

Would advise you to have a read through this, Karachi:

I made bold the very important parts but please read it all.






Umar II

Full name Umar ibn Abd Al-Aziz.
Born 682 AD (62 AH) in Medina or Egypt.
Caliph of the Ummayad Empire.
Died 720 AD (102 AH).


He became governor of Medina in his early life.
He was a very just and good governor. Because of this many people
would emigrate to Medina from Iraq to escape the harsh rule of its
governor (Al Hajjaj bin Yousef).

Al Hajjaj was angry with this news and pressured to Caliph of the empire to
remove Umar from his job. The Caliph did so but Umar had already gained
a reputation throughout the empire of being a just ruler.

The Caliph died so his brother (Sulieman) became Caliph. He then became
seriously ill. He wanted to give his throne to one of his 3 sons but they
were still children. His advisors then recommended Umar. Umar tried hard
to dissuade Sulieman but eventually reluctantly took up the position.

So now Umar was the Caliph of the empire (around 30 years old at this
time).

He was a very different ruler than those who had gone before him.
It had become normal for the Caliphs to live luxorious lives but Umar was
different.

He was very pious (religous) and hated indulging in these worldly
luxuries. So he deposited all the finery and assets set aside for the
Caliph into the public treasury.

He abandoned the palace he was given and gave it to the last Caliph's
(Sulieman) family to live in while he himself just lived in a modest
house.

He did not wear royal robes and that stuff and instead wore very
rough, simple linens and if anyone saw him, he would go unrecognised.

Infact a woman came upto his house looking for charity.
She saw a man dressed in ragged clothes patching up some holes in his
wall.
She thought he was a servant and said "Do you not fear God? Why don't
you veil in the presence of this man?"
She was shocked to find out that this servant was infact Caliph Umar
himself.

He was immensely popular with the public. Despite this he said that if
they were not happy with him or the job that he was doing then he
encouraged them to elect someone else to be Caliph. He was so
popular that no-one ever took up this offer.

The Ummayad officials and the relatives of the past caliphs had seized
estates and villas. Umar confiscated these and returned them back to
the people. He was given offers of money and favours but declined them.
He made it his personal goal to see to the needs of every citizen of
the empire.

He was afraid of being tempted by bribery so he accepted very few gifts.
And those that he did accept, he immediately put them in the public
treasury.

He even ecnouraged his wife (who was daughter, wife and sister to three
previous caliphs) to donate her own jewellery to the public treasury.
He is well known for reinforcing the zakat towards the end of his rule.
Because of this there were hardly any poor people left to give charity
to!

He even wanted to strip the Great Ummayad Mosque in Damascus of
its precious stones and fixtures to be donated to the public treasury.
But he didn't since the Byzantines were so envious of it.

All these moves angered the Ummayad court but made him loved by
the masses. Because of all this love and support from every citizen the
courts would not dare to oppose him (at least not in public).

He also made many important religious reforms.
One of which was ending Ummayad tradition of cursing of Ali at the
end of prayers and instead replacing the curse with this verse of the
Qu'ran:

Surely God enjoins justice, doing of good and giving to kinsfolk

He also wanted to enforce Shari'ah to stop drinking and mixing of
genders in bath houses.

He expanded the welfare programs of the previous Caliphs and made
special programs for orphans and the destitute.

He also abolished the Jizya tax for converts who were formally dhimmis
because before they would have been taxed even after converting.
He ordered first official collection of hadith material fearing it would be
lost.

He was not so interested in expanding the borders of the empire but he
would defend it when the need arose. For example sending one of his
generals to defend Azerbaijan from the invading Turks. Also he faced a
kharijite uprising (kharijites are those who initially supported the Caliphs but
then worked to overthrow them) but instead of armed conflict he much
preferred to have negotiations. Before his death he held talks with two
of their envoys.

All his reforms in favour of the people angered the Ummayad nobility.
They decided to bribe a servant to poison his food.
He learned about this as he lay dying and he forgave the culprit.
He took the money he was entitled to under Islamic law and then
donated it to the public treasury!

He died in 720 aged around 40 years old.
His reign was only 3 years but his reputation was unmatched. He is highly
regarded by Muslims world-wide.

You may have heard of the Rashidun (the 4 rightly guided Caliphs). He is
considered to be one of the finest rulers second only to them, infact some
call him the 5th and final rightly guided Caliph.


He once said:
Rulers usually appoint people to watch over their subjects. I appoint you a
watcher over me and my behaviour. If you find me at fault in word or
action guide me and stop me from doing it.











Alhamdulillah he was one of the greatest Muslim leaders.
I learned much today as I had never heard of him before. I hope you did too.
I definately recommend you read up further on him.
Info taken from wikipedia, typed up by myself.


May he rest peacefully in Janaat.

I recommend you do some extra reading, that is only a summary I typed up from wiki.
There is more info online I am sure.