Difference between Lahore and Dewsbury

[MazloomyarMaseed]

This is Lahore in Pakistan



This is Dewsbury in the UK

[MazloomyarMaseed]

I got this from Pakhtunkhwa Peace Forum from Zubair Torwali, As i shouldnt get any credit for this great comparison.

Dewsbury has its Raiwand like lahore,the largest tablighi centre in UK.

It makes you think, why Pakistanis follow Islam more than their native country.

Regards

[tor_khan]

Dewsbury has a substantial Gujarati population - mostly from Gujarat, India but also from East Africa and some Gujaratis from Karachi. It would be a sweeping statement to call Gujaratis clanish, but they do tend to invest inwardly, both in terms of marriage and finance. This tends to make them more conservative, both religiously and culturally.

Panjabees, on the other hand, tend to be more socially liberal, so the pics don't surprise.

But for a better explanation of the pics you'd need to ask both.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Dewsbury has a substantial Gujarati population - mostly from Gujarat, India but also from East Africa and some Gujaratis from Karachi. It would be a sweeping statement to call Gujaratis clanish, but they do tend to invest inwardly, both in terms of marriage and finance. This tends to make them more conservative, both religiously and culturally.

Panjabees, on the other hand, tend to be more socially liberal, so the pics don't surprise.

But for a better explanation of the pics you'd need to ask both.

I live in the UK and Pakistan, and ive witnessed how more closer people are to Islam than those in Pakistan who hear the Azan five times a day, but the question is, why are people more closer to Islam than those who live in a prodominately Muslim country.

Do you feel because of the soft laws towards relgion and the secular atomosphere, people tend to be practice their faith without fear of other sects or groups harming them, while in Muslim countries, people are not very open about their relgionous views.

Whats your take on it Tor Khan?

[شمله ور خراساني]

I've been to Dewsbury Tablighi markaz. And I loved every bit of it.

This shows how Islam can only be practiced well when people realize why they are Muslims.

Pakistanis might pretend to be Muslims in Pakistan, but they accept their idenity as Muslims because they live in a predominantly Muslims society. Yet they do not accept Islam because of their personal conviction.

Yet, the Tablighis and many other orthodox Muslims in Western societies choose to be Muslims out of conviction. Not because their society is such. There are thousands of converts in UK who accept Islam.

But one thing I do have to say in all fairness. What I dislike about Tablighi movement is that they usually lack knowledge about Islam. They follow Islam more outwardly. But they have very little knowledge about Islam.

This is why you see men who receive benefits from the government leaving their wives and children to go for a 4 month long tabligh mission somewhere in some mosque and leave the British government to support their wife and children with social benefits.

This practice makes absolutely no sense.

But generally, Tablighis are usually very decent people. I prefer them over some other sects.

[tor_khan]

This is why you see men who receive benefits from the government leaving their wives and children to go for a 4 month long tabligh mission somewhere in some mosque and leave the British government to support their wife and children with social benefits.

I never fail to get over that ...

... I mean Tabligh is great ... but man!! you have responsibilities to your wife and kids ... you can't just turn them over to the state and go on a 4 month Tabligh ... its an inherent contradiction.

The difference with the Gujaratis is they are financially secure and have a social network (read my last post) that to my eyes is very protective ... it some makes sense if they go on Tabligh ... sorry to say, this does not apply to your average Brit Kashmiri etc ... with their higher rates of social dependance on the state etc.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I never fail to get over that ...

... I mean Tabligh is great ... but man!! you have responsibilities to your wife and kids ... you can't just turn them over to the state and go on a 4 month Tabligh ... its an inherent contradiction.

The difference with the Gujaratis is they are financially secure and have a social network (read my last post) that to my eyes is very protective ... it some makes sense if they go on Tabligh ... sorry to say, this does not apply to your average Brit Kashmiri etc ... with their higher rates of social dependance on the state etc.

You are right about the Gujaratis. They are much better organized and more sophisticated than Kashmiris.

[Michin Khel]

How can just two pictures explain two different places?

If i post picture of brothel in peshawer and picture of tablighi markaz in lahore, would it explain real situation of the two cities?

[tor_khan]

I live in the UK and Pakistan, and ive witnessed how more closer people are to Islam than those in Pakistan who hear the Azan five times a day, but the question is, why are people more closer to Islam than those who live in a prodominately Muslim country.

Do you feel because of the soft laws towards relgion and the secular atomosphere, people tend to be practice their faith without fear of other sects or groups harming them, while in Muslim countries, people are not very open about their relgionous views.

Whats your take on it Tor Khan?

Iman is a big part of it ... but I feel that in the west, there's a bit of nostalgia too ... it's only my unscientific opinion ...

Islam is easier to practise here in the UAE (and yes we know all the contradictions - e.g. Dubai = Monaco), but there are many, many masjids ... people hear the Adhan and they make their way to prayer ... work and life fits around it ... rather than the other way around (as in the west).

The other thing is in the Gulf there IS a state view of Islam - khutbas are prepared centrally and unlike Pakistan, say where religion is "de-regulated", you can't really deviate. Hence, publicly, fewer differences in opinion can be voiced - there's a state religion and one followed opinion - khallas.

In other Muslim countries there are many views and whilst this represents relgious freedom of sorts, this multiplies into problems too.

Ultimately, even in the Gulf, however, there's a thin line between culture/tradition and Islam. There are plenty of overlaps.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Iman is a big part of it ... but I feel that in the west, there's a bit of nostalgia too ... it's only my unscientific opinion ...

Islam is easier to practise here in the UAE (and yes we know all the contradictions - e.g. Dubai = Monaco), but there are many, many masjids ... people hear the Adhan and they make their way to prayer ... work and life fits around it ... rather than the other way around (as in the west).

The other thing is in the Gulf there IS a state view of Islam - khutbas are prepared centrally and unlike Pakistan, say where religion is "de-regulated", you can't really deviate. Hence, publicly, fewer differences in opinion can be voiced - there's a state religion and one followed opinion - khallas.

In other Muslim countries there are many views and whilst this represents relgious freedom of sorts, this multiplies into problems too.

Ultimately, even in the Gulf, however, there's a thin line between culture/tradition and Islam. There are plenty of overlaps.

I am in favor of a central state religion. They have no central state religion in Holland. But pretty much everyone is fed from the day they are born with John Stuart Mill and Jean Jaque Rousseau.

People are made to think and reason in one single way and there is very small difference of opinion.

This is why they consider us, Muslims as a threat to their society. Not because we pose a physical threat of harming their peace and order. But because we believe in a different code of conduct, behavior and morality. They are afraid that we might become a large group and slowly change their society to start believing and practicing other than they desire.

This is why I think Islamic countries should also have on central state religion and prevent others or limit others from spreading their religion.

Because the existence of rival codes and belief systems harms the society and creates rifts and conflicts.

[Palwasha]

I think in a non-Muslim country your faith is questioned a lot more, which prompts you to try and understand further in order to find the answers to specualting questions. Like why don't you drink, why do you pray, why do you cover up, etc.

Plus in a Muslim country you take it all for granted, it's natural, you're used to hearing the Azaan and what not. In a non-Muslim country we're deprived of those privledges, so we crave for them more.

Though, they do play the Azaan in places like Dewsbury and Bradford.