About shias...

[Al Hanif]

Are shias kuffar ? mushriks ? Munafiqeen ? DO you consider shias as muslim ?

Explain your point of view.

I've heard so many opinions and there are so many fatwas about it I would like to make this clear.

[tor_khan]

Yes. When compared to other religions Sunnis and Shias agree on more than they disagree. Shias are not prevented from making the pilgrimage to Islam's holiest sites.

Islamaphobes writing in newspapers and Skinheads in Europe care not a hoot when they stick a boot in your head if you are Shia or Sunni.

P.S. I am not an expert.

[badmash_khel]

According to the Aman declaration twelver shias are part of Islam but not Ismaili shias.


so yes they are muslim. they pray, pay zakat, say the shahada, believe in the whole of Quran and judgement day, believe in the prophecy of Muhammad (saw) and accept him as the last messenger and prophet, celebrate both eids, etc

so yes they are muslims.

[al-arab]

According to the Aman declaration twelver shias are part of Islam but not Ismaili shias.


so yes they are muslim. they pray, pay zakat, say the shahada, believe in the whole of Quran and judgement day, believe in the prophecy of Muhammad (saw) and accept him as the last messenger and prophet, celebrate both eids, etc

so yes they are muslims.

This is correct.

But there are also some clear differences and there exist a lot of Shia sects you are not considered Muslim.

[badmash_khel]

This is correct.

But there are also some clear differences and there exist a lot of Shia sects you are not considered Muslim.

We will leave that to Allah (Swt) to judge between people.

[al-arab]

We will leave that to Allah (Swt) to judge between people.

I was only referring to the well known sects in Shia not the Twelwer Shias.

Iran as a country for example has it un-Islamic problems (highest number of heroin addicts, alcoholics etc.) They are not an example to follow.

Not to mention persecution of Sunnis.

[Karachi]

what do you care if they are muslim or not? you should focus on your own faith and stop worrying about others

[Al Hanif]

since when do shia belong to the sunni sect anyways,???, they are not part of you. also it is up to the scholars to decide if they are muslim or not, not some amateur terrorist minded people like you, who are only looking to divide people and kill as many people as possible in the name of islam

i'm not a sunni in the first place, where did you get that information ?

secondly, my people are not known for being terrorists but dark skinned punjabis hindus are

and eventually i never claimed to say they are muslims or not, i made a poll to see what pashtuns who have shias in their country think about them

no, back to riding your camel and sniffing coke in your slums in karachi you hindu seed

[tor_khan]

Al Hanif. Do you like being banned for making racist remarks?

[Al Hanif]

Al Hanif. Do you like being banned for making racist remarks?

he started making racist remarks about arabs in the first place

arabs dont have any technology so they always rely on western companies to set up in their lands, lets be honest, with out the west, the gulf states/saudi arabia will still be living in the deserts and riding camels

[Al Hanif]

you heard so many opinions ?
post them here in some short line's.

- there are people who say shias are hardcore mushriks who say Allah SWT made a mistake, who say the Qur'an was supposed to be revealed to Ali (a.s)

- there are people who say shias are munafiqs who created another persian religion to suit their culture and to not mix with arabs

- there are people who say iranian shias are muslim but the iranian clerics, mullah and hirearchy are dibelievers and not muslims

-there are people who say iranian shias and iranian government and clerics are all muslims

If you are not sunni, what are you??? some whabhi lunatic terrorist?

I'm not a sunni. I'm not a shia. I'm not a wahabbi. I'm not a salafi. I'm not a quranist. I'm not a Sufi. I'm a muslim. That's how Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) called himself. Period.

[tor_khan]

Al Hanif. Yours unfortunately is the same weak argument that got you banned the last time round. You cannot justify your own racism by saying that others started it.

It is all about the quality of your contributions and your real intentions. If I was in a tight mood I could end this by saying "You can apologise or I can say goodbye to you."

[Al Hanif]

tor_khan I apologize but that's really unfair.

[tor_khan]

No, it is not unfair. It is correct. You made your apology. I accept it.

I don't care who was Muslim "first", but the one thing I do not accept is that occasional attitude we sometimes come across whereby Arabs (for example) look down on others because they consider themselves to have been the "original" Muslims and others to be the descendants of converts to Islam. There is no way that I or other Muslims should accept. I refuse to add to that level of fake pride in others. You can't justify it in Islam, and I am right to challenge it.

[Al Hanif]

No, it is not unfair. It is correct. You made your apology. I accept it.

I don't care who was Muslim "first", but the one thing I do not accept is that occasional attitude we sometimes come across whereby Arabs (for example) look down on others because they consider themselves to have been the "original" Muslims and others to be the descendants of converts to Islam. There is no way that I or other Muslims should accept. I refuse to add to that level of fake pride in others. You can't justify it in Islam, and I am right to challenge it.

For the 100000th time, i'm not an arab, i don't have a single drop of arab blood in me. I'm a moroccan berber Shilha. We make up 60% of moroccans and Arabs are 40%. I am not an arab, that's like saying pashtuns are arabs or saying that Tadjiks are Pashtuns. Do you like it when americans call afghans arabs ? They think you are "sand***" and they see no difference between you and arabs but there is a huge difference, the same way arabs and berbers are different. We fought arabs for centuries yet they are our brothers and i will never tolerate racism. That shows how ignorant you are. I'm not an arab at all but i will defend arabs if you attack them and if you are racist against them.