Honour Killings - Murdering Your Wife/Daughters

[sanman]

What could your wife or daughters do that could possibly make you want to murder them? Why do such a thing?

Christie Blatchford: Honour killing trial of Mohammad Shafia

[ScimitarXEdge]

from an Anthropological perspective, it boils down to sexual selectivity to ensure societal integrity isn't compromised

[sanman]

Wow man, that's a really sterile description.

I think there are some males who want to be treated like lord and master, and they want others to be their property. You cannot own others like property, nor treat them that way.

Those who try to hide behind religion to do such things, are only animals trying to call themselves divine.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/prosecution-paints-picture-of-clumsy-cover-up-in-honour-killings-trial/article2207448/

[ScimitarXEdge]

Given that you declare yourself an Atheist, I don't fully understand what the basis for your morality is asides from social convention and that you live in a society that stigmatizes and penalizes certain behaviors.

Sometimes you have to think outside the socially conditioned box. There are no such thing as "rights" outside of value judgments that we allot to things. Sure I intellectually affirm the conept of rights but I try to be as objective as possible , I don't think of rights at least in so much as examining things from a naturalistic perspective is some emotive value we attribute to a person, but the role that person shares on a fundamental level in regards to group cohesions and species integrity. Even with our cognitive machinery we're organisms and have analogous operands as other organisms do, and likewise other organisms socially engineer the components of their society that are o longer conducive to the accepted patterns of organization.

sterile or not ....it's reality, i'd have hoped you being an Atheist you'd understand that more than anyone else.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I think there are some males who want to be treated like lord and master, and they want others to be their property. You cannot own others like property, nor treat them that way.

yep , it's called Alpha Male Status, very common amongst Primates of which we are apart of.

Those who try to hide behind religion to do such things, are only animals trying to call themselves divine.

No one has to hide behind anything, , law , order, religion...are all instruments humans have used to organize the relationship to the world around them.

we are animals no matter how much we delude ourselves into thinking that our specialized cognitive abilities somehow cancels all of that.

[sanman]

Well, I do think that someone who coldly / viciously murders their wife and daughters is worse than an animal. Most animals are not so cruel or uncivilized.

[ScimitarXEdge]

actually animals are completely uncivilized, civilized means socially organized around urbanized centers. No such pattern of behavior exists outside humans, it has almost nothing to do with a person's moral behavior or lack there of.

As for being worse, there are animals who will eat their own young without any second thoughts, Nature's pretty brash, asides it's just a sociallly indoctrinated value judgement.

[sanman]

We cannot be neutral or indifferent towards basic ethics and human decency. Otherwise, we are no better than animals - and probably worse.

[ScimitarXEdge]

we don't have to be neutral or indifferent, just intellectually honest. You're treading a somewhat intellectually dishonest path

Even though I do believe Atheists can have Morals, morality is definitely in conflict with the concept of Atheism, although many Atheists rightly assert there's a naturalistic explanation for how the concept of morality exists, but t in practice they portray the morals themselves as some sort of supreme object of reverence , which is definitely in conflict with the premise of Atheism, asserting respect for things without evidence.

and nothing wrong with being no better than animals, who says animals are even bad to begin with? This is all very circular reasoning.

[faye]

how do you actually know who is an athiest scimitar to be able to make these judgements.? do they wear some sort of badge or have a tattoo somewhere claiming, 'me, atheist'?

[sanman]

I'm an atheist, faye - but I would never murder my wife or daughter

One doesn't have to be religious to feel moral, ethical and humane responsibilities.

Ultimately, relationships have to be mutually voluntary - if you really can't get along with someone and make it work, then go your separate ways, instead of inflicting misery or even worse - murder - on each other.

[ScimitarXEdge]

marriages are seldom voluntary even in voluntary marriages, sounds paradoxical I know, but peoples motivations are often just products of conditioning, other socially inculcated motives, all eliminate the validity of genuine voluntary action. Now while in the immediate sense it may seem appealing and noble to have such magnaminous gestures operate over marriage, but in the long term sense that could very well prove to be ecologically detrimental, which if you ask me is a greater horror than socially engineering things according to how nature has evolved us to be.