Steven Hawkings on "god"?

[ozymandias]

when did I say such things. I think you are drunk. stop drinking and get some help.

Drunk people are usually far less coherent and logical....

[faye]

sanman, you allocate values, to religion. so where did those ideas/values, come from and why do you separate them from the supposedly 'logical and rational' belief, that everything came from nothing?

[sanman]

sanman, you allocate values, to religion. so where did those ideas/values, come from and why do you separate them from the supposedly 'logical and rational' belief, that everything came from nothing?

When you say "everything came from nothing" - what do you mean by everything?

Are we discussing morality here, or physical things?

People had values long before Islam, and Islam itself recognizes that. After all, doesn't Islam recognize other prophets and religious figures before Mohammed? So there you go.

Tell me, since you seem so sure of your beliefs - how do you know they are correct? Are you claiming that just because something is written in a book it must be the truth? Are you claiming that just because your mummy and daddy told you something, that they are automatically right in every way?
Are you claiming that just because a significant number of people believe in something, that it must be the truth? What are you claiming as the ultimate validation for your beliefs?

[faye]

When you say "everything came from nothing" - what do you mean by everything?

Are we discussing morality here, or physical things?

People had values long before Islam, and Islam itself recognizes that. After all, doesn't Islam recognize other prophets and religious figures before Mohammed? So there you go.

Tell me, since you seem so sure of your beliefs - how do you know they are correct? Are you claiming that just because something is written in a book it must be the truth? Are you claiming that just because your mummy and daddy told you something, that they are automatically right in every way?
Are you claiming that just because a significant number of people believe in something, that it must be the truth? What are you claiming as the ultimate validation for your beliefs?

for such a logical and rational being, that is quite a waffle.

[sanman]

alright, I'm not trying to get into interminable debates with everyone who pops in

Suffice it to say, why not best turn to religion where moral issues are concerned, and turn to science where the physical world is concerned?

[ScimitarXEdge]

Actually, Hawkings reasoning for why God doesn't exist or why people don't need to recourse to God to explain the existence of nature ( a nod to Occam's Razor) is a bit dubious. On one hand people assume that Hawkings status as an authority on Theoretical Physics is itself evidence that Hawkings surmise is established on sound evidential conclusions. THis is nothing more than an Appeal to Authority, and on the other hand Hawkings statements themselves Begs the Question. In this case, he seems to have merely flamboyantly brandished some commonly accepted naturalistic concepts and appealing to the idea of Universal Laws rather than the use the understood Laws themselves in explain HOW Universe could exist purely based on those laws. I've watched several programs and have read current literature he has on the topic and most of what he argues remains ambiguous blanket statements. I'm hoping he will give more concrete explanation in the near future though. I wonder what his take on Information Theory and the influence of Consciousness on Information is?

I have a strong hunch that Hawkings statements are quite possibly a result of a pervasive political agenda which Richard Dawkins is trying to urge the scientific elite to rally behind. Scientists are people too, ad whatever they say outside of purely science, will inevitably be flawed with motives.

[faye]

When you say "everything came from nothing" - what do you mean by everything?

Are we discussing morality here, or physical things?

People had values long before Islam, and Islam itself recognizes that. After all, doesn't Islam recognize other prophets and religious figures before Mohammed? So there you go.

Tell me, since you seem so sure of your beliefs - how do you know they are correct? Are you claiming that just because something is written in a book it must be the truth? Are you claiming that just because your mummy and daddy told you something, that they are automatically right in every way?
Are you claiming that just because a significant number of people believe in something, that it must be the truth? What are you claiming as the ultimate validation for your beliefs?

what do i mean by everything? why, that which is not, nothing, of course. so where did you say those morals and beliefs came from?

[sanman]

Morality has evolved over time, due to positive human social instincts.

These instincts, couple with our reason, compel us towards better relations with each other.

[faye]

where did positive social instincts and reason come from?

[sanman]

instincts are biological in origin, and so is reason

reason is a form of evolutionary fitness

[faye]

evolutionary fitness. i like that. where did you get that one from sanman?

[sanman]

evolutionary fitness. i like that. where did you get that one from sanman?

faye, somehow the pattern of your comments makes me feel like I'm talking to a chat-bot.

natural selection doesn't have to come from something, it's in the nature of biology that some species will thrive at the expense of other species

[faye]

when science can prove there is no creator or higher consciousness, from whom mohammad, jesus, and buddha, recieved their knowledge give me a hoy!, evo-bot.