Announcement

**AfghanResistance** · 08-14-2011, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by uqi

are these the ones with green turbans? they say Durood-e Sharif before Azan.

yes there is a group among the barelvis that have made the green turban and green flags a symbol of their group and pray durood before azan. neither which is proven from the sunnah of the prophet s.a.w.

see video below

Maulana Ilyas Qadri Sahab Dancing - YouTube

**AfghanResistance** · 08-14-2011, 04:38 PM

This is not Islam...Jhoota Pir - YouTube

**Mujib** · 08-16-2011, 06:30 PM

Barelwis and Deobandis are both Ahl al-Sunna (Sunnis) who follow the Hanafi school of fiqh (madhhab). Like all Sunnis, they are Ash`ari or Maturidi* in creed (`aqida).

Unfortunately, in India and Pakistan some from among these groups have exaggerated the minor differences they have and have allowed these to cause great division and strife. Alhamdulillah these divisions are foreign to Afghanistan. We should not allow these divisions to come into Afghanistan and affect Afghans. Instead of furthering the divisions we should promote unity and emphasize that Barelwis and Deobandis are both Sunni Hanafis.

* The Ash`ari and Maturidi schools are the two schools of `aqida (beliefs) in Islam.

**Mujib** · 08-16-2011, 06:31 PM

No Difference between Barelwis and Deobandis

**king-zazai** · 08-16-2011, 06:41 PM

arhhh!!!! theres something 2 ruin ur day!!!

alhamdulilah allah aza wa jel did not lead us astray

**AfghanResistance** · 08-16-2011, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by Mujib View Post

No Difference between Barelwis and Deobandis

yes they both among the sunnis i.e. ehle sunnah wal jama'ah and follow the hanafi fiq but the barelvis have corruption in their belief. They themselves say they are sunnis and brand everyone else as wahabi.

some beliefs of deviated barelvis:

* The prophet s.a.w is every where and he watches over everyone and hears all that you say.
The above statement conflicts with the qualities of Allah i.e. the 'present' and the all 'hearer'

*They believe that you can ask for the fulfilment of needs from the pious people who are dead.

*They believe that the prophet s.a.w had the absolute knowledge of the unseen just like allah him self.

*They believe you can prostrate to someone pious like a peer.

*They believe the souls of the dead visit our houses on thursdays.

your telling me these are minor differences??

read our history we pukhtana have never been barelvis, only recently this phenomena is brainwashing some muslims.

proofs below that the barelvis have deviated.

1.) Can one ask the Awliya to grant ones Duas?

It is not permissible to ask the Awliya to fulfill ones Duas. However, it is permissible for one to ask Allah (Subhanah WaTa’ala) through the Wasila of the Awliya. This is done by asking Allah (Subhanah WaTa’ala) to fulfill ones such and such Dua through the love that one has for the Awliya. Thus, one is not directly asking the Awliya, rather he is, in essence, asking from Allah (Subhanah WaTa’ala) who alone is capable of fulfilling Duas.

2.) Is the Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wasalaam) Hazir Nazir?

It is incorrect to believe that the Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wasalaam) has the ability to be present everywhere. Rather, Allah (Subhanah WaTa’ala) is the only One who has the ability to witness all things at one time. To believe the Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) is Hazir Nazir is completely disrespectful to Allah (Subhanah WaTa’ala) and the Prophet (SaAllahu Alahi Wassalaam).

For example, some have the belief that the Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) actually attends gatherings where Durood is recited upon him Rather, the correct belief is that the Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) is informed of our actions and Salaams are conveyed to him through angels, not that he actually comes to the gatherings. It is mentioned in Hadith by the Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam)

حدثنا محمد بن يوسف ثنا سفيان عن عبد الله بن السائب عن زاذان عن عبد الله بن مسعود قال قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم : ان لله ملائكة سياحين في الأرض يبلغوني عن أمتي السلام (سنن الدارمي 2/409؛ عربي)
The Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) said: “Verily, Allah has angels that travel the Earth and convey my Ummah’s salutations to me” (al-Darami)

عن ابن مسعود أيضا عن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم قال: (حياتي خير لكم تحدثون ويحدث لكم ووفاتي خير لكم تعرض علي أعمالكم فما رأيت من خير حمدت الله وما رأيت من شر استغفرت الله لكم) رواه البزار بإسناد جوده الحافظ العراقي وصححه الحافظ الهيثمي والجلال السيوطي والشهاب القسطلاني (الأحاديث المنتقاة، ص 91؛ جوامع الكلم)
The Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) said: "My life is good for you [since] you commit acts and its verdicts are given to you [through me]. And my death is [also] good for you [since] your deeds are presented to me. I praise Allāh for the good I see and I ask Him for your forgiveness for the evil I see" (al-Ahādīth al-Muntaqāh)
These two Ahadith clearly show that our Salaams and actions are presented to the Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) through angels, not that he actually comes to the gatherings. Therefore, it will be incorrect to believe that the Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) is Hazir Nazir.

3.) Is the Prophet (SaAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) Alim ul-Ghayb?

The Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) was given knowledge of many things of the unseen, yet his knowledge was still limited. The ability to have complete knowledge of everything is the characteristic of Allah (Subhanah WaTa’ala) alone and no one else. This is proven through many Ayaat of the Quran a few of them are as follows:

قُل لاَّ يَعْلَمُ مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ الْغَيْبَ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ (النمل: 65)

Say: “None in the Heavens and the earth knows the Ghayb (Unseen) except Allah” (Quran 27: 65)

قُل لاَّ أَقُولُ لَكُمْ عِندِي خَزَآئِنُ اللَّهِ وَلا أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ(الانعام: 50)

Say (O Muhammad SalAllahu Alahi Wassalam): I do not tell that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor (that) I know the Unseen (Quran 6: 50)

قُل لاَّ أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعًا وَلاَ ضَرًّا إِلاَّ مَا شَاء اللَّهُ وَلَوْ كُنتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لاَسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ(الاعراف:188)

Say (O Muhammad SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam): “I possess no power over benefit or hurt to myself except as Allah wills. If I had the knowledge of the Ghayb (Unseen), I should have secured for myself an abundance of wealth, and no evil should have touched me. (Quran 7: 188)

وَعِندَهُ مَفَاتِحُ الْغَيْبِ لاَ يَعْلَمُهَا إِلاَّ هُوَ(الانعام: 59)

And with Him (Allah) are the keys of the Ghayb (all that is hidden), none knows them but He (Allah). (Quran 6: 59)

Clearly, these aayaat prove that no one other than Allah (Subhana WaTa’ala) has the knowledge of the Ghayb. Furthermore, in one incident, Aishah (Radhi Allahu Anhaa) was falsely accused of indecency and, thus, the Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) was worried for a long period of time. Until Allah (Subhanah WaTa’ala) sent down the Wahy to inform him of the truth. If he was knowledgeable of the Ghayb, then he would have known the reality of the situation. Many other instances, besides this one, have clearly shown that the beloved Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) did not have knowledge of the Ghayb.

4.) Is it permissible to read Fatiha on food?

The method mentioned in the query has no basis in Islam and therefore, is not permissible. To specify a certain day to do this and to do it for the Awliya makes this act impermissible. Rather any act of worship must be peformed for the sole pleasure of Allah (Subhanah WaTa’ala). However, if one feeds the poor and then intends its reward for the Awliya, then this method is permissible.

The desire to send reward to ones deceased loved ones also existed at the time of the Sahabah, Tabieen, Tab-e-Tabieen, and so on, but not one incident is recorded of them doing it in the manner mentioned in the query. The method prescribed above has been mentioned, rather preferred, by the great Ulema of our Deen. Therefore, it is only appropriate to do this in the manner proven by Shariah. May Allah (Subhanah WaTa’ala) give all of us the Tawfiq to act upon his commands and the Sunah of our beloved Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) in the best and purist of ways. Ameen.

And Allah knows best

Wassalamu Alaikum

Ml. Sajid bin Shabbir,
Student Darul Iftaa

Checked and Approved by:

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Darul Iftaa, Madrassah In'aamiyyah

**Mujib** · 08-16-2011, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by AfghanResistance View Post

some beliefs of deviated barelvis:

* The prophet s.a.w is every where and he watches over everyone and hears all that you say.
The above statement conflicts with the qualities of Allah i.e. the 'present' and the all 'hearer'

They do not believe that he is everywhere. They believe, like all Sunnis, that his (Allah bless him and give him peace) blessed soul and blessed essence can be present wherever Allah wishes. 'Hadir' is not one of the Divine Attributes. Allah's being "present" does not mean he is literally present; it means His Knowledge encompasses everything.

As for the Prophet's (Allah bless him and give him peace) watching and witnessing, this is based upon the hadith in which the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said that our actions are shown to him.

Originally posted by AfghanResistance View Post

*They believe that you can ask for the fulfilment of needs from the pious people who are dead.

They believe, like all Sunnis, in the permissibility of tawassul. Istighatha is a form of tawassul. See Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam's answer at SunniPath: Istighatha.

Originally posted by AfghanResistance View Post

*They believe that the prophet s.a.w had the absolute knowledge of the unseen just like allah him self.

They do not believe that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) has absolute knowledge of the unseen. They believe, like all Sunnis, that Allah Most High granted the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) vast knowledge, including knowledge of the unseen, but that this knowledge is not like the Divine Knowledge of Allah Most High.

Originally posted by AfghanResistance View Post

*They believe you can prostrate to someone pious like a peer.

Can you quote a text in which any of their scholars has allowed prostration?

Originally posted by AfghanResistance View Post

read our history we pukhtana have never been barelvis

Neither have we been Deobandis. As I said, these divisions are foreign to us, so let us not import them. We should emphasize unity amongst the two groups.

**king-zazai** · 08-16-2011, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by Mujib View Post

They do not believe that he is everywhere. They believe, like all Sunnis, that his (Allah bless him and give him peace) blessed soul and blessed essence can be present wherever Allah wishes. 'Hadir' is not one of the Divine Attributes. Allah's being "present" does not mean he is literally present; it means His Knowledge encompasses everything.

As for the Prophet's (Allah bless him and give him peace) watching and witnessing, this is based upon the hadith in which the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said that our actions are shown to him.

They believe, like all Sunnis, in the permissibility of tawassul. Istighatha is a form of tawassul. See Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam's answer at SunniPath: Istighatha.

They do not believe that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) has absolute knowledge of the unseen. They believe, like all Sunnis, that Allah Most High granted the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) vast knowledge, including knowledge of the unseen, but that this knowledge is not like the Divine Knowledge of Allah Most High.

Can you quote a text in which any of their scholars has allowed prostration?

Neither have we been Deobandis. As I said, these divisions are foreign to us, so let us not import them. We should emphasize unity amongst the two groups.

funny how u use words that makes the dog chase its tail meaning the same but using it in diffrent terms

**AfghanResistance** · 08-17-2011, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by Mujib View Post

They do not believe that he is everywhere. They believe, like all Sunnis, that his (Allah bless him and give him peace) blessed soul and blessed essence can be present wherever Allah wishes. 'Hadir' is not one of the Divine Attributes. Allah's being "present" does not mean he is literally present; it means His Knowledge encompasses everything.

The prophet s.a.w is neither physically, nor in any other way present besides his resting place in Madina.

As for the Prophet's (Allah bless him and give him peace) watching and witnessing, this is based upon the hadith in which the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said that our actions are shown to him.

yes our actions are presented to the prophet s.a.w via the angels, not how you have made it out to be i.e. witnessing our actions

They do not believe that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) has absolute knowledge of the unseen. They believe, like all Sunnis, that Allah Most High granted the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) vast knowledge, including knowledge of the unseen, but that this knowledge is not like the Divine Knowledge of Allah Most High.

you said it your self that Allah gave the prophet s.a.w the knowledge of the unseen but to make it ok your just projecting that its different from Allahs knowledge.
The Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) was given knowledge of many things of the unseen, yet his knowledge was still limited. The ability to have complete knowledge of everything is the characteristic of Allah (Subhanah WaTa’ala) alone and no one else. This is proven through many Ayaat of the Quran a few of them are as follows:

قُل لاَّ يَعْلَمُ مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ الْغَيْبَ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ (النمل: 65)

Say: “None in the Heavens and the earth knows the Ghayb (Unseen) except Allah” (Quran 27: 65)

قُل لاَّ أَقُولُ لَكُمْ عِندِي خَزَآئِنُ اللَّهِ وَلا أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ(الانعام: 50)

Say (O Muhammad SalAllahu Alahi Wassalam): I do not tell that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor (that) I know the Unseen (Quran 6: 50)

قُل لاَّ أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعًا وَلاَ ضَرًّا إِلاَّ مَا شَاء اللَّهُ وَلَوْ كُنتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لاَسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ(الاعراف:188)

Say (O Muhammad SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam): “I possess no power over benefit or hurt to myself except as Allah wills. If I had the knowledge of the Ghayb (Unseen), I should have secured for myself an abundance of wealth, and no evil should have touched me. (Quran 7: 188)

وَعِندَهُ مَفَاتِحُ الْغَيْبِ لاَ يَعْلَمُهَا إِلاَّ هُوَ(الانعام: 59)

And with Him (Allah) are the keys of the Ghayb (all that is hidden), none knows them but He (Allah). (Quran 6: 59)

Clearly, these aayaat prove that no one other than Allah (Subhana WaTa’ala) has the knowledge of the Ghayb. Furthermore, in one incident, Aishah (Radhi Allahu Anhaa) was falsely accused of indecency and, thus, the Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) was worried for a long period of time. Until Allah (Subhanah WaTa’ala) sent down the Wahy to inform him of the truth. If he was knowledgeable of the Ghayb, then he would have known the reality of the situation. Many other instances, besides this one, have clearly shown that the beloved Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) did not have knowledge of the Ghayb.

Ive proved from the quran that the prophet s.a.w did not have the knowledge of the unseen as Allah makes it clear. yes he was given some unseen knowledge and that we do not doubt.

Can you quote a text in which any of their scholars has allowed prostration?

Here is your great Shaikh ul Islam Dr Tahir ul Qadri. people are prostrating to him. it also proves that you (barelvis) think qawali (music) is ok to listen too and it also shows that its ok to have a guy dancing to you with bells on his ankles. lol do you want more proof???

No Comments - YouTube

You barelvis bark like dogs in the mosque. i guess thats ok too lol oh sorry you going to need some proof.

Barelvi EXPOSED! ehl e sunnat ,Dawat e islami,illyas qadri,tahir ul qadri - YouTube

you barelvis love to dance in these darbars dont you, you think its zikr lol sorry your going to need some proof
Barelvi Kanjar Peer ( Noori Bori Wali Sarkar ) in Action !! - YouTube

As I said, these divisions are foreign to us, so let us not import them. We should emphasize unity amongst the two groups.

if these divisions are foreign what are you doing arguing as a barelvi. who are you trying to fool?

Our pukhtana have always followed whats proven from the quran and sunnah of the prophet s.a.w. i have brought my proofs forward from the quran. what have you brought forward?

**Mujib** · 08-17-2011, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by AfghanResistance View Post

The prophet s.a.w is neither physically, nor in any other way present besides his resting place in Madina.

The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said that on the night of the Mi`raj he saw Sayyidina Musa (as) praying in his grave. He also saw him that night along with all the other Prophets in Jerusalem when he led them in prayer. He also saw him and other Prophets in the heavens. If those Prophets can be present beyond their graves, why do you suggest our Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) cannot?

Originally posted by AfghanResistance View Post

yes our actions are presented to the prophet s.a.w via the angels, not how you have made it out to be i.e. witnessing our actions

Firstly, where in that hadith is it said that the Angels present our actions to him? Secondly, you limit the definition of 'witnessing.' Witnessing'/'Watching'/'Seeing' are not restricted to the process of visible light reaching the eye. This is the means by which we see. But Allah Most High can grant someone the ability to "witness"/"see" without this means. If the Angels show him (Allah bless him and give him peace) our actions, then that seems a greater way of witnessing/seeing. Witnessing/seeing through Angels seems greater than through retina, light, etc.

Originally posted by AfghanResistance View Post

Ive proved from the quran that the prophet s.a.w did not have the knowledge of the unseen as Allah makes it clear. yes he was given some unseen knowledge and that we do not doubt.

These two sentences contradict each other, brother.

You claimed that Barelwis believe that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) had "absolute knowledge of the unseen just like allah him self." I pointed out to you that this is completely false; they believe no such thing. They believe, like all Sunnis, that Allah Most High granted the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) knowledge of the unseen, but that this knowledge is not independent, or absolute and Divine Knowledge like Allah's Knowledge.

Originally posted by AfghanResistance View Post

Here is your great Shaikh ul Islam Dr Tahir ul Qadri. people are prostrating to him.

Brother, when you are discussing such issues do not get emotional or personal. "Your great Shaikh" and "You barelvis" shows emotion and an attitude of getting personal. The discussion is not about AfghanResistance or Mujib; it is about learning and benefiting others. And "lol" is childish and out of place in such a serious discussion.

As for the video, I am not interested in YouTube videos (the Dr. Tahir al-Qadri video has been responded to by his own students; read their response if you are truly concerned). I am not interested in what videos show people doing. I doubt you know a single person in most of the videos you have posted in this thread. You label them Barelwi because others have labeled them Barelwi. Even if they are Barelwis, the actions of some people do not speak for the doctrine of the whole group. I am sure some of them have posted videos of such-and-such Deobandis doing such-and-such.

You said they believe that one can prostrate to a human being. Cite a single book in which a Barelwi scholar has stated that prostration to other than Allah is permissible. If you cannot, you should not make empty claims against groups.

Originally posted by AfghanResistance View Post

if these divisions are foreign what are you doing arguing as a barelvi. who are you trying to fool?

I am arguing for the truth. If you had falsely accused the Deobandis or another group I would have clarified the issue then also.

**AfghanResistance** · 08-17-2011, 02:19 PM

The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said that on the night of the Mi`raj he saw Sayyidina Musa (as) praying in his grave. He also saw him that night along with all the other Prophets in Jerusalem when he led them in prayer. He also saw him and other Prophets in the heavens. If those Prophets can be present beyond their graves, why do you suggest our Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) cannot?

The prophet s.a.w led the prophets in prayer because Allah so willed, to prove a point that the prophet s.a.w was the leader of the prophets and best of creation. Now just because Allah made him the imaam of the prophets at the time doesnt mean it has any correlation with the prophet s.a.w being every where or the prophet s.a.w visiting mehfils or places where durood is read upon him. That even logically doesnt make sense to claim the prophet s.a.w is every where or can be present if he so chooses. Bring a verse of the quran or hadith to prove your point.

Also bear in mind that it was Allahs will not the prophet s.a.w own will for the prophet s.a.w to travel on the night of meraj and also lead the prophets in prayer and secondly we agree upon the night of meraj because we have it in the hadith, now if it was Allahs will for the prophet s.a.w to hear peoples salam or be present else where after passing away, then there is nothing impossible for Allah but just like there is hadith for the prophets s.a.w meraj so there would have been for such phenomena but in fact it is not the case and the hadith present are those to the contrary.

If the prophet s.a.w is every where or can be where he chooses or can hear everything or can see everything then why has Allah appointed angels to carry the durood to the prophet s.a.w ?

It is mentioned in Hadith by the Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam)

حدثنا محمد بن يوسف ثنا سفيان عن عبد الله بن السائب عن زاذان عن عبد الله بن مسعود قال قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم : ان لله ملائكة سياحين في الأرض يبلغوني عن أمتي السلام (سنن الدارمي 2/409؛ عربي)
The Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) said: “Verily, Allah has angels that travel the Earth and convey my Ummah’s salutations to me” (al-Darami)

If the prophet s.a.w has said himself that the angels convey my ummahs salutations then who are you to say that he receives the message directly or in some other way? again bring a verse from the quran or hadith?

Firstly, where in that hadith is it said that the Angels present our actions to him? Secondly, you limit the definition of 'witnessing.' Witnessing'/'Watching'/'Seeing' are not restricted to the process of visible light reaching the eye. This is the means by which we see. But Allah Most High can grant someone the ability to "witness"/"see" without this means. If the Angels show him (Allah bless him and give him peace) our actions, then that seems a greater way of witnessing/seeing. Witnessing/seeing through Angels seems greater than through retina, light, etc.

brother hold on. how Allah presents our actions to the prophet s.a.w in his grave. Allah knows best so please stop your assumptions, as we have no hadith on this but on the other hand what we do know is that no.1 the angels have been appointed by Allah to travel the earth and present our actions to the prophet s.a.w. from this its clear that if the prophet s.a.w was present or could hear from far why would angels need to travel the earth, bringing our salutations to the prophet s.a.w ?? the hadith follows:

الله بن مسعود قال قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم : ان لله ملائكة سياحين في الأرض يبلغوني عن أمتي السلام (سنن الدارمي 2/409؛ عربي)
The Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) said: “Verily, Allah has angels that travel the Earth and convey my Ummah’s salutations to me” (al-Darami)

عن ابن مسعود أيضا عن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم قال: (حياتي خير لكم تحدثون ويحدث لكم ووفاتي خير لكم تعرض علي أعمالكم فما رأيت من خير حمدت الله وما رأيت من شر استغفرت الله لكم) رواه البزار بإسناد جوده الحافظ العراقي وصححه الحافظ الهيثمي والجلال السيوطي والشهاب القسطلاني (الأحاديث المنتقاة، ص 91؛ جوامع الكلم)
The Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) said: "My life is good for you [since] you commit acts and its verdicts are given to you [through me]. And my death is [also] good for you [since] your deeds are presented to me. I praise Allāh for the good I see and I ask Him for your forgiveness for the evil I see" (al-Ahādīth al-Muntaqāh)

These two Ahadith clearly show that our Salaams and actions are presented to the Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) through angels, not that he actually comes to the gatherings etc

These two sentences contradict each other, brother.

Where is the contradiction? Allah is the only one who has the keys to the unseen knowledge and he gives from the knowledge to whom he wishes. just like with all the prophets a.s

do you want the proof again?? where are your proofs??

The Prophet (SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam) was given knowledge of many things of the unseen, yet his knowledge was still limited. The ability to have complete knowledge of everything is the characteristic of Allah (Subhanah WaTa’ala) alone and no one else. This is proven through many Ayaat of the Quran a few of them are as follows:

قُل لاَّ يَعْلَمُ مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ الْغَيْبَ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ (النمل: 65)

Say: “None in the Heavens and the earth knows the Ghayb (Unseen) except Allah” (Quran 27: 65)

قُل لاَّ أَقُولُ لَكُمْ عِندِي خَزَآئِنُ اللَّهِ وَلا أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ(الانعام: 50)

Say (O Muhammad SalAllahu Alahi Wassalam): I do not tell that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor (that) I know the Unseen (Quran 6: 50)

قُل لاَّ أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعًا وَلاَ ضَرًّا إِلاَّ مَا شَاء اللَّهُ وَلَوْ كُنتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لاَسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ(الاعراف:188)

Say (O Muhammad SalAllahu Alahi Wassalaam): “I possess no power over benefit or hurt to myself except as Allah wills. If I had the knowledge of the Ghayb (Unseen), I should have secured for myself an abundance of wealth, and no evil should have touched me. (Quran 7: 188)

وَعِندَهُ مَفَاتِحُ الْغَيْبِ لاَ يَعْلَمُهَا إِلاَّ هُوَ(الانعام: 59)

And with Him (Allah) are the keys of the Ghayb (all that is hidden), none knows them but He (Allah). (Quran 6: 59)

As for the video, I am not interested in YouTube videos (the Dr. Tahir al-Qadri video has been responded to by his own students; read their response if you are truly concerned). I am not interested in what videos show people doing. I doubt you know a single person in most of the videos you have posted in this thread. You label them Barelwi because others have labeled them Barelwi. Even if they are Barelwis, the actions of some people do not speak for the doctrine of the whole group. I am sure some of them have posted videos of such-and-such Deobandis doing such-and-such.

Look these are your leaders. everyone knows Dr Tahir ul Qadri is referred to as sheikh ul islam and he is a barelvi. Now my point is if your leaders are doing things against the quran and sunnah, then what about their followers. its common sense. These are the people who hold knowledge and are leading the barelvis yet they come into conflict with the quran and sunnah, so let alone his followers.

You said they believe that one can prostrate to a human being. Cite a single book in which a Barelwi scholar has stated that prostration to other than Allah is permissible. If you cannot, you should not make empty claims against groups.

Tahir ul qadri the sheikh ul islam barelvi. Has written many books. now actions speak louder than words. If i prove the author of a book allows prostration through recorded video then it is not logical to ask for the proofs in the book that he has written. evidence is evidence at the end of the day and Dr tahir ul qadri is a famous scholar of the barelvis and therefore one cannot mistake him for someone else nor can one say its a fabrication.

I am arguing for the truth. If you had falsely accused the Deobandis or another group I would have clarified the issue then also.

Brother i understand your a barelvi but in order to have a mutual debate, we must provide evidence. now you have not done so to this very point. Now please provide proof from the hadith or the quran to back your point. if you cant then please dont waste my time as well as yours just replying by trying to make sense of things. islam is mine and your religion and what is proved from the quran and sunnah is mine and your religion.

salam

**king-zazai** · 08-17-2011, 05:46 PM

wrora your job is just to send the msg and give prof which you have continuing the convo is usless now....

**Amir al Ghaznavi** · 08-17-2011, 08:25 PM

i came across a pashtun ismaili recently. was shocked..

**ScimitarXEdge** · 08-21-2011, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Amir al Ghaznavi View Post

i came across a pashtun ismaili recently. was shocked..

that is whacky, were they tam sam pakhtun la wina? or Pakhto wayunkai?

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barelvis. truly a deviation from islam.

barelvis. truly a deviation from islam.

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