Arab nationalism disguised as Pan-Islam grave threat to many nations sovereignty

[Toramana]

I think Arab nationalism disguised as Pan-Islam is a problem that has harmed people and societies the world over. This threat to the culture and political sovereignty of many nations has grown manifold with the accumulation of oil wealth in Arab countries foremost Saudi Arabia. They now have the money to sponsor their clandestine agenda through the establishment of seminaries and mosques that are ideologically and politically linked to Arabs.

Pashtun culture is also under grave threat from this expansion of Arab political and cultural influence. What could be done to counter this threat? Any suggestions.

I wish if all non-Arab Muslims could unite against this intrusion of Arab cultural and political influence into their affair. Saudi Arabia and Egypt are in particular a problem.

[faye]

the news about the u.s. soldiers with the dead afghan men was just on the radio. i think america is intent on creating more fundamentalism not less. while the neo colonialism continues toramana, you won't see muslims becoming more moderate.

[roadrunner]

I think Arab nationalism disguised as Pan-Islam is a problem that has afflicted people and societies the world over. This threat to the culture and political sovereignty of many nations has grown manifold with the accumulation of oil wealth. They now have the money to sponsor their clandestine agenda through the establishment of seminaries and mosques that are ideologically and politically linked to Arabs.

Pashtun culture is also under grave threat from this expansion of Arab political influence. What could be done to counter this threat? Any suggestions.

I wish if all non-Arab Muslims could unite against this intrusion of Arab cultural and political influence into their affair. Saudi Arabia and Egypt are in particular a problem.

Dohhh. You've just realized this.

The whole of Pashtun culture, at one time the greatest culture in the world, has been wiped out to a degree that none of you have a clue what YOUR traditions are.

What has happened is that aspects of Islam that were well and truly cultural (Arabic culture) have been set as fundamental Islam. All scholars seem to study in Arabic countries so they churn out the same cultural aspects within Islam.

[ScimitarXEdge]

The whole diversion of conflating Pan Islam and Arabism is just a Neo-Colonial tactic fabricated and manufactured to divide and rule amongst the Middle East and Asia

Arab Nationalism has always been secular; and also a creation of European Colonial Powers. There is no such thing as Islamic Arab Nationalism; this is only a media invention in Colonial Powers; hence why you only read it from Western sources or under the tutelage of Imperial Powers.

The Historical and Logical falsity of the claim is evident; when we look at how Pan-Islamists of the Middle East were embroiled against Nationalistic Arabs both of the Saudi State which tries to put on a false religious cover and more Overtly Secular Nationalist Secular Arab States like Egypt and more over even Iraq.

Furthermore the Imperialist/Mentally Colonized try and smokescreen history and ignore that Pan-Islamism originated in Afghanistan, under Sayyid Jamaluddin Al-Afghani who WENT TO THE Middle East and aroused Pan-Islamic Movement for the purpose of COUNTERING Imperialism/Colonialism. In Fact Pan-Islam was a phenomena that was Universal in the Muslim world at the same time. In India with Ahmad Shah Brailwi, The Movement to Support the Ottoman Khilafah, such as Said Beizzuddin Nursi an Ottoman Kurd. So many historical references prove the claim logically false.

The claims of Islam being some manifestation of Arab Imperialism has been proven to be either exaggerations both on this website in several threads and in other numerous sources. A Thorough refutation can be seen here; less. http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...ndex8.html#top

Feel Free to examine this thread to see how the same individual promoting these fallacies was thoroughly debunked not even a whole Month ago. Which demonstrates that such claims are merely peddled as cycles of regurgitation while ignoring facts.


the goal of Promoting this fabricated Conflation of Pan-Islam with Arabism is to create or instigate enemies between Muslims, particularly ones which have never been historically enemies. Historically Pashtuns and Arabs have never been enemies; In no Annals of Pashtun history do you see any animosity with Arabs nor Arabs with Pashtuns; so the goal here is to invent and manufactured this hatred. In fact there are evidences of alliances, for example in Mir Wais Khan Hotak's liberation movement against the Safawids, the Arab Shaikhs had supported him. The reality is there has never been any Central Arabic Government motivated to subjugate Pashtuns. There however has been British and Americans who have; as we have witnessed here, the Mentally Colonized Secularists often use the double talk of claiming to be against ALL Imperialism; but praising the British for their contributions during their colonial exploitation or praising Uncle Sam for their military intrusion of Afghanistan and Pashtun Tribal regions. Based on this, who then is really serving imperialism here?

The Second Goal is to maintain and and propogate the Capitalist/Secular Imperial Power Structure (European/American) and promote it as an alternative to Islam, by creating this stigma and wedge between Islam and Muslims, dividing Muslims on ethnic basis; and perceiving manufactured Capitalist/Imperial cultural constructs as the standard of progress.

Also, the people who are trying to Promote this Fabrication are also trying to Invent some Mythical Pashtun History and use Civilizations which existed at one time in Currently Pashtun inhabited lands to make the false associations of an Indo-Cultural Heritage of Gandhara who spoke an Indian Language known as Prakrit, which has no direct relationship to Pashto whatsoever. Or Bactrians; who most scholars identify as the ancestors of Modern Day Tajiks, not Pashtuns. The goal here is to furthere attempt to divorce Pashtuns and Other Muslims of their Islamic connections by making it appear as if Islam is an Arab cultural imposition to divert Muslims into some more passive Imaginary Heritage which is Easier to conquer and colonize by Capitalists. The reason for this is because Islam is a very proactive and has aspects of Militancy; which make them harder to pacify, more passive people are easier to control than those who want to resist and fight back as the British learned in their adventures in Afghanistan a century Earlier. If we examine things we can see how everything from Arab-Imperialism, to this movement against Pan-Islam to Promotion of European Secularism, are all tied together as strategies of Neo-Colonalism from Capitalist Imperialism.

[ScimitarXEdge]

also let's not forget the idea of a Ethno-Centric Nation is a Imperialist concoction; that should reveal who's really behind this agenda here.

[unknownprince]

Scimitar time and time against crushes and silences all Toramana's propoganda which is inherently anti-Islamic.

We are Muslims, and they are really trying to deny this, but they know that it is difficult to openly preach such words, so they speak of pan-Arabism which is in fact the same as all other kufar nationalistic movements, and actually just like theirs.

The pan-Arab baath movements also were opposed to Islam like them.

As far as I can remember, once Islam was fully established in Afghanistan (Qais), Arabs never even sent armies there, and yes Scimitar, you are right, Mirwais neeka was able to declare a jihad against the Safavids who had allied themselves with Gurgin Khan(a Christian).

The truth is, anyone who ascribes to the opinion mentioned in the original post really just hates Islam.

These same people would have shouted at Mirwais neeka when he beat back the Persians. Fortunately, these people are rare.

[ScimitarXEdge]

It's not just that; but Toramana and other Mentally Colonized Slaves of Europeans, just regurgitate the same argument they had months ago; even though it was already rebutted.

This is a special tactic of thinking people forgot that they made these claims before and they were refuted and debunked; pretending that their claims are automatically true; even though their falsehood had been previously exposed.

That's why I'm glad we still have archives of threads; Everything on the site shows that whenever Toramana made this claim, HIS OWN sources, not any sources that we preferred, but the SOURCES THAT HE ENDORSED, disproved him. This is the most humilating thing there is.

[ScimitarXEdge]

interesting assessment and a postulate which should be explored further.

[Toramana]

The Muslim Brotherhood group has been the most prominent Islamic organization in the area since its establishment by Hassan El-Banna, in 1928. However, by practice, it may be considered as a major Arab nationalist organization. It spread quickly in Egypt, Iraq, Palestine, and Syria. Its first conference in the Palestinian city of Yaffa, in the same year, reflected the group's interest in the Arab unity. El-Banna emphasized that "Arabs are the guards of Islam ...; therefore, it's the duty of every Muslim to revive and support Arab unity." Thus, the Brotherhood's interest in Palestine is based on the fact that it is an Arab land that hosts Islam's third holiest shrines, Al-Aqsa Mosque.[46]

The group aimed at teaching the masses and reviving Islamic solidarity. Thus, it differentiated itself from the religious establishment of preachers who catered for governments rather than people. El-Banna attacked the Egyptian nationalism, which was promoted by Salama Musa. Instead, he proposed the Islamic brotherhood and Arab nationalism. In 1934, he wrote that Arab nationalism is the expression of aspirations of Arabs from the (Atlantic) Ocean to the (Arabian) Gulf. He also supported the Arab League when it was established in 1946. In several occasions throughout his life, he emphasized that Islam prospers if Arabs prosper and it loses if they are humiliated. This means that if Arab nationalism aims at achieving Arab prosperity, it is the duty of Muslims to support it. However, many Islamic writers criticized Arab nationalism as it separated Muslim Arabs from other Muslims. Among these were Abu Al-Ala Al-Mawdudi, Seyid Qutb, Abu Al-Hassan Al-Nadawi, and Sa'id Hawa.[47]

Because of the conflict between the Nasser government and the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1950s and the 1960s, the distance increased between Arab nationalists and Islamists. However, a 1980 study showed that the vast majority of people did not see a contradiction between Arab nationalism and Islam. The study was conducted by Sa'ad Eddin Ibrahim from the Center for Arab Unity Studies. Respondents were from several Arab states (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Palestine, Sudan, and Tunisia). About 88 percent agreed that a relationship existed between Arab nationalism and Islam. About 91.6 percent agreed that Arabs as a whole constitute one entity, and about 77.9 percent agreed that Arabs constitute one nation.[48] In a comprehensive study conducted by Sa'ad Eddin Ibrahim on Arab unity, about 60 percent of respondents believed that Islam is a central pillar of Arab nationalism. About one-third of them saw Arab unity happening along Islamic lines.[49] Thus, the majority of Arabs did not see a genuine contradiction between Arab nationalism and Islam. However, whenever the contradiction between unionists and sovereigntists intensified, like in the 1960s after the Syrian secession and during the Yemeni War, Arab nationalists were falsely accused of opposing Islam. One support for that accusation was the adoption of an Arab form of socialism.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Notice that Toramana did not post a link or reference to the original source

This is the original source; one can easily take one of the quotes in Tormana's citation and google it.

http://www.gulfwar1991.com/Gulf%20Wa...0El-Najjar.htm


This is another quote from the same reference source that Toramana just quoted from

Another example of how Toramana uses sources which actually DISPROVE him; but he deceitfully misquotes things to justify his fallacies and lies.


Examine here

It is hard to perceive Arab nationalism as separate from its Islamic heritage. However, some developments at the turn and the end of the 20th century showed the two as if they were in conflict. As a reaction to the Turkish nationalist movement, Arab intellectuals started to form Arab nationalist organizations that aimed at the independence of the Arab homeland (Appendix IV.B). Their major fear was falling under the rule of the victorious European powers. Their fear became reality when the European powers succeeded in dividing the Arab homeland into several separated states. Arab nationalists then realized that the struggle for true Arab independence cannot be separated from the struggle for unification.[44]
....

. However, many Islamic writers criticized Arab nationalism as it separated Muslim Arabs from other Muslims. Among these were Abu Al-Ala Al-Mawdudi, Seyid Qutb, Abu Al-Hassan Al-Nadawi, and Sa'id Hawa.[47]

Because of the conflict between the Nasser government and the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1950s and the 1960s, the distance increased between Arab nationalists and Islamists.


......
However, whenever the contradiction between unionists and sovereigntists intensified, like in the 1960s after the Syrian secession and during the Yemeni War, Arab nationalists were falsely accused of opposing Islam. One support for that accusation was the adoption of an Arab form of socialism.

We can see here that Toramana intentionally tried to hide the reference because it would bring into perspective that Arab Nationalism that the Author is referring to was solidarity against Imperialistic Powers; but when the mainstream of Arab Nationalists became subservient to secularism and imperial interests. the Islamists were by and large against Arab Nationalism because they turned towards Secularist ideas and excluded Non-Arab Muslims. It's interesting to note that the Arab Nationalists embraced Secular Socialism and became Soviet Lackeys just as the Pashtun Nationalists did in the 60's and 70's.



Toramana is deliberating spreading disinformation; but his own source exposes Him.

[ScimitarXEdge]

that's exactly what Pan Islam teaches

you should read some material of Muhammad Abduh and Sayyid Jamaluddin Afghani.

[ScimitarXEdge]

from my research it seems to be an attempt of traditional Ulema to defame them because they were against Blind Following in Fiqh and advocated ijtehad to approach problems.

The sources which claim they were appear to be dubious