Muslim contributions to Science

[imb706]

What I don´t get about these wild claims of a religion being scientific is how come Islamic societies are the least scientific of the entire world if they´re responsible for a lot of scientific advancement? How come fundie muslims ban scientific research? How come the medical knowledge in many islamic societies is limited at best, and they still believe in curses and gay diseases and that stuff?

I´m not trying to poke you guys over and over again, I´m just challenging a claim that I´m pretty skeptical about?

[imb706]

As you can see, we Muslims have contributed exponentially in nearly every category.

Yeah but I don´t, since you´re not giving any real evidence for it and just giving somewhat long winded paragraphs who´s basic meaning has been debunked over and over again.

Again, if there´s been so much contributions, how come they don´t show?

What you see now, Is not the way Islam should be interpreted. Muslims ruled Spain for hundreds of years, do you see Muslim in Spain?

No, becuase the Spanish drove out the Moorish and Turkish invaders, and generally, the middle east was quite primitive compared to sub-sahara africa and nothern Europe at the time. Eventually the Ottomans were driven out to just Turkey where a revolution ended the Islamic empire for good.

We are not violent. Islam is now used politically, we

Since when has it not been used politicially? Ruling an area under Islam is political. All major religions are political.

but if you see a few people blowing up themselves, That does not represent a Muslim world of nearly 2billion.

Okay, but what does this have to do with scientific advancement? No one said being advanced means peaceful, I´m simply questioning the advanced part. Muslims don´t seem very scientifically savvy, so to say.

our contributions show us how being a devoted Muslims has helped us, Things that are now true, were told to us 1400 years

Yeah but that sounds like mysticism, not Science.

[imb706]

How come they dont show? I am sure you know arithmetic and Algebra,

I´ve already shown that Algebra was not invented (actually, the proper way of describing it would be discovered) by Muslims, but by Indians (hindus I guess? lol) long before the dates given. History shows that.

How come mathematics and technology aren´t utilized much in Islamic countries then? I mean this is just silly.

If you think things like Medicine,Math,Science don't stand out. Then first we have to teach you what Math and science is.

Wouldn´t it be more productive to educate Islamic societies on what Math and Science is?

[imb706]

Once again, Muslim countries like U.A.E,Malaysia,Indonesia,Turkey and so forth Indeed utilize them.

How? Indonesia is a complete war torn mess with one of the lowest qualities of life in the world and some of the least amount of funding and attention given to health care, scientific advancement and public education. Malaysia is a bit better, but pretty much the same.

The U.A.E. doesn´t focus on anything, it´s just a collection of cities made up of rich foreign nationals and oil tycoons. The only thing they do is trade oil and serve as a haven for business criminals and even slavers.

Turkey is the best example you´ve given, but a few problems. What scientific endeavor has Turkey taken, I mean seriously, since it´s foundation that has profoundly affected human society? Also, right off the bat you can´t use it as an example as it is a secular country with a secular government and secular priorities. Mostly.

one of the best nuclear scientists of all time is A.Q Khan (A Pashtun)

No, no, no, I´m asking for Islamic societies and islamic methods that have contributed to Science, not one guy who happens to be from an ethnicity that is primarily muslim or is muslim himself.

[Marwat]

Islamic societies have contributed what has been posted in the past few threads.


Are you asking about recent contributions?

[imb706]

Islamic societies have contributed what has been posted in the past few threads.


Are you asking about recent contributions?

Since I´ve already shown how the much touted Algebra example is false, I can´t seem to find any real contributions from Islam. And I´m simply asking why these islamic methods don´t produce anything nowadays. We live in a much more scientific era now, how come it´ś helping the advancement of Science?

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Since I´ve already shown how the much touted Algebra example is false, I can´t seem to find any real contributions from Islam. And I´m simply asking why these islamic methods don´t produce anything nowadays. We live in a much more scientific era now, how come it´ś helping the advancement of Science?

Well if your government stop supporting dictators, overthrowing governments they disagree with, inventing militant groups to please your interests,then maybe muslims can progress in any field they choose. I find it very arrogant of you to say such things during a stressful and miserable time for muslims. Afghanistan had a very progressive government in the 70's but it was your america who opposed that to get even with the Soviets.

[imb706]

Well if your government stop supporting dictators, overthrowing governments they disagree with, inventing militant groups to please your interests,then maybe muslims can progress in any field they choose. I find it very arrogant of you to say such things during a stressful and miserable time for muslims. Afghanistan had a very progressive government in the 70's but it was your america who opposed that to get even with the Soviets.

Half preaching to the choir/half just wrong. The progressive government of Afghanistan (I assume you mean the PDPA) wasn´t islamic, so doesn´t that fit in with my general point? Where is the Islamic inventions and progress? I don´t see it.

Sure, I agree with not interfering in countries on the behalf of businesses, but Saudi Arabia has the full support of Europe and the US, and where is its Science and technology? It has none, minus some stuff to pump oil out. Where´s the islamic space programs, medical programs, communication programs, etc?

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

What I don´t get about these wild claims of a religion being scientific is how come Islamic societies are the least scientific of the entire world if they´re responsible for a lot of scientific advancement? How come fundie muslims ban scientific research? How come the medical knowledge in many islamic societies is limited at best, and they still believe in curses and gay diseases and that stuff?

I´m not trying to poke you guys over and over again, I´m just challenging a claim that I´m pretty skeptical about?

From the 8th century until the 15th century, the most enlightened part of the world was, by far, the (extended) Middle-East. Baghdad, Damascus, Cordoba, Granada, etc were full of scholars, libraries, universities and schools and intellectual discourse was uncensored and unhindered. It was the golden age of the Arabs who, just after accepting Islam, transformed from a primitive nation of desert nomads to a nation of intellectuals.

It was at that time that the Catholic church had drowned Europe into the Dark Ages. Anything contradicting Church dogma was punishable by torture and death, usually simultaneously.

The tables have turned now. The Muslim empires never fully recovered after the Mongol invasions. The Mongols burned down all the great cities of the Arabs. The Mongols opened the floodgates for further Turkic conquerors (Tamerlane being another) who plundered and destroyed everything the Caliphates had built. The Moorish descendants in Spain were driven back much later and by the 16th century, science ceased to advance in the Arab empires. They had officially returned to darkness and ignorance. They still haven't fully recovered from that. Remember, civilizations rise and fall. Was Europe not the epitome of knowledge until the fall of the Roman empire? It stayed in the darkness for almost a thousand years. That's a lot of time to be burning witches and what not..

The Turks, who took over much of the Middle-East and boasted arguably the most powerful military force of the 15th and 16th centuries, never made any real effort as far as producing the likes of Ibn Sina, Ibn Khuldum, Al-Kundi, Ibn-Hazm, Al-Beruni, etc, etc was concerned.

imb706, the Arab scholars are to us what the Greeks are to you guys in the West. Men such as Ibn Sina were masters of many sciences at the same time. They were just like their Greek counterparts - exchanging and expanding ideas.

To deny the contribution of these men to world civilization is criminal. Throughout history books, especially the oriental ones, their part is omitted. However, the post-revisionists are setting the record straight now.

Here are some of their contributions:
- Modern optics.
- Algebra.
- Popularization of the numeral zero.
- Solving of cubed equations.
- Massive advancements in biology and medicine (Avicenna)
- Trigonometry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_medieval_Islam <--- read.

Our modern mullahs who want to create another Caliphate don't even trust polio shots. The Taliban banned geometry and geography! And these people want to dominate the world.

By the way, I'm an atheist but credit goes where it's due. The Arabs built an Athens or Rome of their day so to speak. It's no wonder that **** Davis chose to write about Baghdad when he wanted to define materialism and what not (The City of Orange Trees).

[imb706]

From the 8th century until the 15th century, the most enlightened part of the world was, by far, the (extended) Middle-East.

What about sub-sahara Africa, you know, the place where the Ottomans couldnt conquer? Africa wasnt always a disease ridden poverty center, it actually was the most advanced place in the region around the time you talk of. Also, what about East Asia? I mean they developed a modern capitalist economy nearly a thousand years ago (yes, it fell, but the point still stands).

It was the golden age of the Arabs who, just after accepting Islam, transformed from a primitive nation of desert nomads to a nation of intellectuals.

It seems like a fallacy to say arabs =/= Islam, especially when not every arab to this day is a muslim, and that the ethnicity doing something doesnt mean the religion did. Surely landing on the Moon wasnt a Christian accomplishment.

It was at that time that the Catholic church had drowned Europe into the Dark Ages. Anything contradicting Church dogma was punishable by torture and death, usually simultaneously.

Strange though, at the times you mention, Islamic empires ruled parts of Europe but got driven out just before what we call the Rebirth happened. So um, that doesnt fit too well with your example.

The tables have turned now. The Muslim empires never fully recovered after the Mongol invasions. The Mongols burned down all the great cities of the Arabs. The Mongols opened the floodgates for further Turkic conquerors (Tamerlane being another) who plundered and destroyed everything the Caliphates had built. The Moorish descendants in Spain were driven back much later and by the 16th century, science ceased to advance in the Arab empires. They had officially returned to darkness and ignorance. They still haven't fully recovered from that. Remember, civilizations rise and fall. Was Europe not the epitome of knowledge until the fall of the Roman empire? It stayed in the darkness for almost a thousand years. That's a lot of time to be burning witches and what not..

What youre saying not withstanding, the Mongols were actually religiously tolerant and adopted the beliefs often of those they conquered. For example, the Mongols are believed to be the first Christians in Japan.

The Turks, who took over much of the Middle-East and boasted arguably the most powerful military force of the 15th and 16th centuries, never made any real effort as far as producing the likes of Ibn Sina, Ibn Khuldum, Al-Kundi, Ibn-Hazm, Al-Beruni, etc, etc was concerned.

Again, kind of a strange statement, given Turkey is probably the most advanced and modern area of what we call the Islamic world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_medieval_Islam

Well first of all, the article states:

¨This article's factual accuracy is disputed. Please see the relevant discussion on the talk page. (June 2008)¨

Wikipedia is a great resource, dont get me wrong, but watch out for poorly maintained articles.

Plus the figures it cites were actually distrusted and hated by the Islamic rulers, much in the same way scientist during the catholic reign of Europe reacted. You wouldnt call Galileo a catholic example of science, would you?

Our modern mullahs who want to create another Caliphate don't even trust polio shots. The Taliban banned geometry and geography! And these people want to dominate the world.

Well, thats an example of Islamic hostility to Science isnt it? When the fundies ban scientific research.

By the way, I'm an atheist but credit goes where it's due. The Arabs built an Athens or Rome of their day so to speak. It's no wonder that **** Davis chose to write about Baghdad when he wanted to define materialism and what not (The City of Orange Trees).

Strange, since most would say the Byzatines were the successors to the Romans, and than the Ottomans. Of course, the Aztecs build something that surprised the size of Rome..but anyway, I don not very convinced...the evidence has been meager and plus, wheres the Islamic scientific advances nowadays?

[Michin Khel]

Dear imb how old are you exactly?
If you are not kid and have a time then read history of world books written by your own authors. After reading these history books you will not feel the intense urge of demanding proof/sources about scientific accomplishments of early arabs.

[imb706]

You know, I provide links and sources to back myself up, you guys dont. How about you give some names of this historians and such? Seriously, let it be a two way street.

[imb706]

Dear imb how old are you exactly?
If you are not kid and have a time then read history of world books written by your own authors. After reading these history books you will not feel the intense urge of demanding proof/sources about scientific accomplishments of early arabs.

And no I wouldnt, I will always want proof, because without proof, its just a ridiculous claim. I dont care about your feelings on the matter, they dont reflect reality one way or another, just give me evidence.

[Master Khan]

Imb706 It was on TV(BBC), and of you think its all false then You need a history book or watch that Documentary because you are just making a fool out of yourself.

[imb706]

Ok, it was on tv? Thats the proof? Okay, fine, give me a link to this television program. Come on, people, if its true, show the evidence. Do religious people always have a problem with evidence?