Is there an ayat in the Qur'an that mention Hijab must be worn.?

[Badlun]

I beleive that Islam is a religion and thus deal with belief,worship(the five pillars) and morality like not telling lie, no muders, justice, charity etc. Beyond that I dont believe in any thing which some body may call Islamic or religious. For example in society, culture, politics, economics , law(except few with moral under pinnings), education, science etc I am completely independent and I dont follow neither Quran nor Hadith.

Dress of women is a cultural, social or individual matter so I dont follow any Hadith on this issue. Because religion has nothing to do with my dress or the dress of women. In Quran we have some general injunction about dress code biut thats more moral or an advice but does not specify you cover your whole body or whatever. Also this was for the context pf Arabs of that time, 1400 years back not for now.

I follow Imam Abu hanifa in following hadith about religious matters. His criterion is that Hadith must be compatible with Quran and with reason. If I found any hadith against these two, I reject it whole heartedly.

In Quran we are advised to follow the Prophet but in religious stuf like prayers, monotheism, fasting, Hajj, zakat , morality but not in Culture, politics or economics.

Believe me these so called hadith on women dress and other issues is totally non sense and fabricated by all those who wanted to enslave women for ever. Once you dont follow these hadith By God you get a great relief. Women can go around freely, can show their beautuful hair , can dress the way they want and they become full human beings otherwise they are just corpses in coffins of their burkas and clothings.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Well that maybe your view, but we need more than "your belief" to take it seriously; you cannot call things "fabricated" just because you don't like it or have been conditioned by society to perceive it loathesomely without an honest and intellectually meritable assessment of it's nuances.

This defeats the very pursuit of "education" and knowledge you claim to be standing for.

Please provide intellectually honest assessments, otherwise it's merely pandering propaganda.

[Azad Khel]

Believe me these so called hadith on women dress and other issues is totally non sense and fabricated by all those who wanted to enslave women for ever.


Osho:

Your whole post is very interesting. This is based on your wishes and personal feelings. By God, being a human I have the same desires. I want every thing free, exposed to me. But being a muslim I try to avoid my feelings and wishes which is against the teachings of the religion (Qur’an and Sunnah (hadits).

This is still good that you believe in the Qur’an (although understanding and belief on the Qur’an is incomplete without believing and understanding the hadits).
I quote you an example from the Holy Qur’an.

[يَـبَنِى آدَمَ قَدْ أَنزَلْنَا عَلَيْكُمْ لِبَاسًا يُوَرِى سَوْءَتِكُمْ وَرِيشًا وَلِبَاسُ التَّقْوَى ذَلِكَ خَيْرٌ ذَلِكَ مِنْ آيَـتِ اللَّهِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَذَّكَّرُونَ ]

(26. O Children of Adam! We have bestowed Libas (raiment) upon you to cover yourselves with, and as Rish (adornment); and the Libas (raiment) of Taqwa, that is better. Such are among the Ayat of Allah, that they may remember.)

[يَـبَنِى آدَمَ لاَ يَفْتِنَنَّكُمُ الشَّيْطَـنُ كَمَآ أَخْرَجَ أَبَوَيْكُم مِّنَ الْجَنَّةِ يَنزِعُ عَنْهُمَا لِبَاسَهُمَا
لِيُرِيَهُمَا سَوْءَتِهِمَآ إِنَّهُ يَرَاكُمْ هُوَ وَقَبِيلُهُ مِنْ حَيْثُ لاَ تَرَوْنَهُمْ إِنَّا جَعَلْنَا الشَّيَـطِينَ أَوْلِيَآءَ لِلَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ ]

(27. O Children of Adam! Let not Shaytan deceive you, as he got your parents out of Paradise, stripping them of their raiment, to show them their private parts. Verily, he and his tribe see you from where you cannot see them. Verily, We made the Shayatin friends of those who believe not.)

Thus, Shaitan uncovers one’s face, then hair, then other parts of the body. I see daily many girls and women who do not cover their faces as well as their bosom and they consider this normal being a Muslim.
And you know? What did Ibless do with Adam and Eva? He (Ibless) guided them to the tree and upon eating its fruit their cloths were off their bodies.

To avoid lengthy post I will continue in the next posts. Thanks.

[Badlun]

This is not necessary that every body becomes scholar and intelelctual and that every subject can be discussed in depth with arguments , analysis and evaluation.

There may not be 1% philosophers or intelelctuals in the world population. Some times its better to have simple assertions than going into nuances and logical premises.

For example I dont have time , energy and capacity to prove every hadith as fabricated. I have a general criterion that compatibility with Quran and reason. Also I dont believe in any religious injunctions if its not for beleis, worship and morality. So why should I waste my time on poroving whether these hadith on hijab are abricated or not. Dress is not at all a religious subject.

yes I am a Muslim but by religion not by culture or politics. I am not Arab. I am just Muslim. I follow Muhammad in religion not in Arab culture and society. I am Muslim by religion, Pashtun by culture, society and blood. I believe in democracy and capitalism as best political and economic systems. I consider G8 as role models not Saudi, Iran, Aghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan or Niger politically and economically.Yes Thanks God Afghanistan is becoming a democracy after the presence of the Western elements. We must learn good things from the West.

[Alchemist]

This is not necessary that every body becomes scholar and intelelctual and that every subject can be discussed in depth with arguments , analysis and evaluation.

There may not be 1% philosophers or intelelctuals in the world population. Some times its better to have simple assertions than going into nuances and logical premises.

For example I dont have time , energy and capacity to prove every hadith as fabricated. I have a general criterion that compatibility with Quran and reason. Also I dont believe in any religious injunctions if its not for beleis, worship and morality. So why should I waste my time on poroving whether these hadith on hijab are abricated or not. Dress is not at all a religious subject.

yes I am a Muslim but by religion not by culture or politics. I am not Arab. I am just Muslim. I follow Muhammad in religion not in Arab culture and society. I am Muslim by religion, Pashtun by culture, society and blood. I believe in democracy and capitalism as best political and economic systems. I consider G8 as role models not Saudi, Iran, Aghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan or Niger politically and economically.Yes Thanks God Afghanistan is becoming a democracy after the presence of the Western elements. We must learn good things from the West.

This is what happens when lame people try to make 'intellectual" claims.

You are just mediocre, to say the least and the way you carry these contradictory ideas goes to show how superficial your knowledge is.

Democracy asserts, that masses of people know what is good and what is right and that ultimately, universal truths are measured by mass appeal - this is myth. If you actually do believe in Capitalism then you are also for exploitation of the poor and the disproportionate divide of wealth in favour of the 1%...who unlike scholars have not merited their accrued wealth..then you are advocating a form of social darwinism that also contradicts Islam. Obviously you don't understand either the western mind set or even the basics of Islam. I suppose you would say that since no where in the Qur'an does Allah say how to pray..that ahadith are also fabricated in that sense ....so you pray five times in your heart instead of in action?

You suffer from cognitive dissonance. Seek professional help. And I don't mean youtube sermons of shiri osho.

[شمله ور خراساني]

This is not necessary that every body becomes scholar and intelelctual and that every subject can be discussed in depth with arguments , analysis and evaluation.

There may not be 1% philosophers or intelelctuals in the world population. Some times its better to have simple assertions than going into nuances and logical premises.

For example I dont have time , energy and capacity to prove every hadith as fabricated. I have a general criterion that compatibility with Quran and reason. Also I dont believe in any religious injunctions if its not for beleis, worship and morality. So why should I waste my time on poroving whether these hadith on hijab are abricated or not. Dress is not at all a religious subject.

yes I am a Muslim but by religion not by culture or politics. I am not Arab. I am just Muslim. I follow Muhammad in religion not in Arab culture and society. I am Muslim by religion, Pashtun by culture, society and blood. I believe in democracy and capitalism as best political and economic systems. I consider G8 as role models not Saudi, Iran, Aghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan or Niger politically and economically.Yes Thanks God Afghanistan is becoming a democracy after the presence of the Western elements. We must learn good things from the West.

Please define what Islam is. What makes you a muslim. And please explain in what exactly you do follow Muhammad and in what do you not follow him?

[Badlun]

I see the results of democracy and capitalism in G8 and I recommend the same quality of life for my fellow Pashtuns. I dont have any other model to follow which I see better than these two. If any one has any other successful system like democracy and capitalism then please do share with us.

Its not my lameness or my shallowness or my depth or my intelelctuality or my knowledgability which matters but what I see, what millions of people see in the developed world , the same I want to see in my own world.

Ask a poor man who will even sell his children for getting some money to give to the visa agent to go to Europe or America. There you see the difference that why inspite of our centuries old religion and culture people die for going to that part of the world.For me capitalism and democracy is the end of the history.

For more discussion on this issue please see my post

http://www.pashtunforums.com/political-talk-11/west-developed-world-its-democracy-model-pashtuns-1567/

I dont want to prove capitalism or democracy from Islam brcause Islam is only a religion dealing with faith , worship and morality not economics or politics.I follow Muhammad only and only in religion.i.e. beliefs , worship and some moral injunctions but I dont follow him in culture, society, politics, economy and other aspects of life.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I see the results of democracy and capitalism in G8 and I recommend the same quality of life for my fellow Pashtuns. I dont have any other model to follow which I see better than these two. If any one has any other successful system like democracy and capitalism then please do share with us.

Its not my lameness or my shallowness or my depth or my intelelctuality or my knowledgability which matters but what I see, what millions of people see in the developed world , the same I want to see in my own world.

Ask a poor man who will even sell his children for getting some money to give to the visa agent to go to Europe or America. There you see the difference that why inspite of our centuries old religion and culture people die for going to that part of the world.For me capitalism and democracy is the end of the history.

For more discussion on this issue please see my post
http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...pashtuns-1567/

I dont want to prove capitalism or democracy from Islam brcause Islam is only a religion dealing with faith , worship and morality not economics or politics.I follow Muhammad only and only in religion.i.e. beliefs , worship and some moral injunctions but I dont follow him in culture, society, politics, economy and other aspects of life.

So in other words, you disbelief in Islam where it colides with your materialist nature?
That's basically a statement of apostasy. Because disbelieving or rejecting any aspect of religion in Islam is an act of apostasy.

[Badlun]

I say Allah is one and Muhamamd is his last prophet.I offer prayers, keep fast, pay zakat, will go to Hajj soon, I beleive in the here after, even I believe in angles. holy books,I mean Amantu billah wa malaye katehe, wa kutubehe, wa rasolehi, wal qadre wal share minaAllah he tala, wal baase badal mawt

But I dont believe in Arab culture, politics, dress codes, etc. If you call me apostate then its your fatwa. I am what I am. You cant make me neither muslim nor non Muslim.

[Azad Khel]

Islam is only a religion dealing with faith , worship and morality not economics or politics.I follow Muhammad only and only in religion.i.e. beliefs , worship and some moral injunctions but I dont follow him in culture, society, politics, economy and other aspects of life.

Last edited by osho; 01-28-2011 at 12:46 PM.


You say Islam is the religion of faith (Iman). Faith covers every thing which has given by Mohammad (pbuh). Every single thing is the part of faith. Qur’an says “WAMA ATAKURRASULU FA KHUZUHU WAMA NAHAAKUM ANHU FANTAHU………. whatever the the Rasool gives you, take it and from whatever he stops you, don’t do that.

In another ayah Qur’an says AFATU’MINUNA BI BADIL KITABI WA TAKFURUNA BI BADIHA………..Do you believe in some part of the book and disbelieve on other parts of it.

This is not faith at all. Faith does not deal with your personal wishes and desires. You may be a believer or a non-believer and the third class is of hypocrites.

Entering Islam in its Entirety is obligated

Allah commands His servants who believe in Him and have faith in His Messenger to implement all of Islam's legislation and law, to adhere to all of its commandments, as much as they can, and to refrain from all of its prohibitions. `Al-`Awfi said that Ibn `Abbas said, and also Mujahid, Tawus, Ad-Dahhak, `Ikrimah, Qatadah, As-Suddi and Ibn Zayd said that Allah's statement:

[يَـأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ ادْخُلُواْ فِي السِّلْمِ كَآفَّةً]

(O you who believe! Enter Silm perfectly) refers to the believers among the People of the Scripture. This is because they believed in Allah, some of them still followed some parts of the Tawrah and the previous revelations. So Allah said:

You believe in the Qur’an and at the same time you believe in the economic system of capitalism. Interest (RIBA) is the base for capitalist economy. Do you know what Qur’an says about the interest (RIBA)?

الَّذِينَ يَأْكُلُونَ الرِّبَواْ لاَ يَقُومُونَ إِلاَّ كَمَا يَقُومُ الَّذِى يَتَخَبَّطُهُ الشَّيْطَـنُ مِنَ الْمَسِّ ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَالُواْ إِنَّمَا الْبَيْعُ مِثْلُ الرِّبَواْ وَأَحَلَّ اللَّهُ الْبَيْعَ وَحَرَّمَ الرِّبَواْ فَمَن جَآءَهُ مَوْعِظَةٌ مِّنْ رَّبِّهِ فَانتَهَى فَلَهُ مَا سَلَفَ وَأَمْرُهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَمَنْ عَادَ فَأُوْلَـئِكَ أَصْحَـبُ النَّارِ هُمْ فِيهَا خَـلِدُونَ ]

(275. Those who eat Riba will not stand (on the Day of Resurrection) except
like the standing of a person beaten by Shaytan leading him to insanity. That is because they say: "Trading is only like Riba,'' whereas Allah has permitted trading and forbidden Riba. So whosoever receives an admonition from his Lord and stops eating Riba, shall not be punished for the past; his case is for Allah (to judge); but whoever returns (to Riba), such are the dwellers of the Fire ـ they will Abide therein.)

Ibn Majah recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said,

«الرِّبَا سَبْعُونَ حُوبًا، أَيْسَرُهَا أَنْ يَنْكِحَ الرَّجُلُ أُمَّه»

(Riba is seventy types, the least of which is equal to one having sexual intercourse with his mother.)

Continuing on the subject of prohibiting the means that lead to the unlawful, there is a Hadith that Ahmad recorded in which `A'ishah said, "When the Ayat in Surat Al-Baqarah about Riba were revealed, the Messenger of Allah went out to the Masjid and recited them and also prohibited trading in alcohol.'' The Six collections recorded this Hadith, with the exception of At-Tirmidhi.
`Ali and Ibn Mas`ud narrated that the Messenger of Allah said,

«لَعَنَ اللهُ آكِلَ الرِّبَا وَمُوكِلَهُ وَشَاهِدَيْهِ وَكَاتِبَه»

(May Allah curse whoever consumes Riba, whoever pays Riba, the two who are witnesses to it, and the scribe who records it.)
They say they only have witnesses and a scribe to write the Riba contract when they want it to appear to be a legitimate agreement, but it is still invalid because the ruling is applied to the agreement itself, not the form that it appears in. Verily, deeds are judged by their intentions.

يَـأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لاَ تَأْكُلُواْ الرِّبَا أَضْعَـفاً مُّضَـعَفَةً وَاتَّقُواْ اللَّهَ لَعَلَّكُمْ
تُفْلِحُونَ - وَاتَّقُواْ النَّارَ الَّتِى أُعِدَّتْ لِلْكَـفِرِينَ - وَأَطِيعُواْ اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ

(130. O you who believe! Do not consume Riba doubled and multiplied, but
fear Allah that you may be successful.) (131. And fear the Fire, which is prepared for the disbelievers.) (132. And obey Allah and the Messenger that you may obtain mercy.) (133.

Interest (Riba) is Prohibited

Allah prohibits His believing servants from dealing in Riba and from requiring interest on their capital, just as they used to do during the time of Jahiliyyah. For instance, when the time to pay a loan comes, the creditor would say to the debtor, "Either pay now, or the loan will incur interest.'' If the debtor asks for deferment of the loan, the creditor would require interest and this would occur year after year until the little capital becomes multiplied many times. Allah also commands His servants to have Taqwa of Him so that they may achieve success in this life and the Hereafter. Allah also threatens them with the Fire and warns them against it, saying,