Do Pakhtuns have a Leader?

[Dervaish]

By Leader I do not mean 'Politician'. Politicians out number the pakhtun population. So skip them. Do you know a Leader for Pakhtuns? Please let me know so I can add to my historical dictionary of the future.

[Dervaish]

Today

No talk of the past Leaders. They are dead and gone. Future? It is still to come. If we have a Leader or Leaders today, they will make the future.

[IamDZJ]

they are all their own leaders.

[Dervaish]

Leaders

N16: What do you mean by saying "Pashtun leaders at present hold very little power".
My question is, "Do we have Pashtun Leader?"
Gilani is prime minister of Pakistan. How much power he is holding?
1. A leader does not need high ranking post or any post at all. Example: Gandhi.
2. A Leader does not need predetermined power. He creates it. Example: Obama before elections.
3. A Leader does not need ready made followers. He changes the minds of the people. Example: Mao Tse-tung?
4. A Leader has to have a charismatic and fearless personality and extra ordinary ability to lead with Strong determination and a high goal in front of him to achieve. Plus many other super qualities. Do you have any such Leader among Pashtuns. Those are not leaders about whom your views are “may be” . Don’t count politicians as Leaders, please.

[Admin Khan]

By Leader I do not mean 'Politician'. Politicians out number the pakhtun population. So skip them. Do you know a Leader for Pakhtuns? Please let me know so I can add to my historical dictionary of the future.

Depends on how you define a leader. There are many tribal elders who are considered leaders but they are not exposed to media. They live in villages where only the village knows they even exist. They have charisma,intelligence and wish to see our ethnic group prosper, but sadly, they aren't given the opportunity. Many people would nullify the leader simply because he might not be a Yusufzai, despite him being a Pashtun, or since he is not a Mohammadzai, or Popalzai. This is what tribal nationalism has done to us.

In this modern age, when a 'leader' arises, he is shot instantaneously by political factions.

P.S
He doesn't necessarily have to reside in a village, that was just an example.

[eusuphxai]

If I know someone is a leader and you don't he really is not a leader.We will have a leader when we are on sale in market again so someone who we make our leader can sell us again.

[Admin Khan]

If I know someone is a leader and you don't he really is not a leader.We will have a leader when we are on sale in market again so someone who we make our leader can sell us again.

We should think more positive. I understand the angle of thinking, but we do have competent leaders, It's just sad that they don't unfortunately represent us.

A proper election might help us, what do you say?

[eusuphxai]

We should think more positive. I understand the angle of thinking, but we do have competent leaders, It's just sad that they don't unfortunately represent us.

A proper election might help us, what do you say?

If they were competent they would be representing us, I have my problems with democracy (not that I am extremist or want dictators), kho pa haghay ba biya wa ghagay go inshAllah.

[Admin Khan]

If they were competent they would be representing us,

Not necessarily, I wholeheartedly disagree. For example, I was in Germany and I met a bunch of Afghans who had Ph.D degrees[from German Universities]and I out of curiousity asked them why they are not serving in the current Afghan government and they said "we refuse to be with crooks". Similarly, many had said they don't want to be told what to do by a foreigner. So what I am trying to say is, we have many competent people but they unfortunately refuse to serve American interests in our region. If they dare to move up the rankings, they will be shot dead. Do leaders exist? Yes they do. Are they effective? No they are not.

I have my problems with democracy (not that I am extremist or want dictators), kho pa haghay ba biya wa ghagay go inshAllah.

Like Winston Churchill said:

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." (from a House of Commons speech on Nov. 11, 1947)

[eusuphxai]

Thanks if for the later part,

I disagree with you, If they were competent they would have thrown out crooks and foreigners, that's what leaders are for, if there were no challenges why would we need a leader.

[Admin Khan]

I disagree with you, If they were competent they would have thrown out crooks and foreigners,

How so? How do you expect them to throw out crooks and foreigners? Do you mind formulating some thoughts that might assist us with that process? If I am a crook, and I see you rising with power that might challenge my hegemony. I being a crook, will shoot you! I don't want you to be my "challenger". This isn't the USA where we have protests and uprisings. In Pashtun dominated areas, it's either you with us, or against us. If you are against the current Karzai government, you will get shot. If you are against MQM, and you are gaining momentum, you will be assassinated and the media will simply label it as "target killing".

Put it this way, according to a source I read a while ago, the first thing that happens in Kandahar(the spiritual birthplace of many Pashtun movements)when a new faction is rising, is that the educated elders and seniors are all killed. Why? Well, we know why. Even today, If someone attempts to challenge the present government, warlords will exterminate them like a bug.

that's what leaders are for, if there were no challenges why would we need a leader.

Leaders need momentum, leaders need support and encouragement. We sitting in the west, cant expect some random guy in Swat to lead us and get rid of all corruption. There is a a lot more to this case. You have to consider regional countries and their influences. For example, Iran wants to support Hazaras, Pakistan wants to support Taliban, India wants to support Northern Alliance. Afghanistan and Pakistan might be conjoined twins when it comes to politics.

[Admin Khan]

P.S
You should read that nice article I posted in our history section yesterday. It has some nice information about Pashtuns and how our enemies wish to see lar and bar divided at all times. The world does not want to see a Pashtun from Swat drinking shnai chai with a Pashtun from Kandahar. We are told that "they are Pakistani Pashtun" and we are "Afghan Pashtun".

Notice the division already.

[parsiwaan]

Not necessarily, I wholeheartedly disagree. For example, I was in Germany and I met a bunch of Afghans who had Ph.D degrees[from German Universities]and I out of curiousity asked them why they are not serving in the current Afghan government and they said "we refuse to be with crooks". Similarly, many had said they don't want to be told what to do by a foreigner. So what I am trying to say is, we have many competent people but they unfortunately refuse to serve American interests in our region. If they dare to move up the rankings, they will be shot dead. Do leaders exist? Yes they do. Are they effective? No they are not.

Like Winston Churchill said:

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." (from a House of Commons speech on Nov. 11, 1947)

Dude that is bs... people have phd but does it qualify them to run gov..hold gov job? Look at Ashraf Ghani…he did not even win 3 percent of vote…….academic is something else and dealing in Afghanistan is something else... once i was in Kabul and meet these phd afghan-Americans...they usually had no idea about afghan culture...they used to complain and complain and would usually get eaten alive by their own dept and dupties…I know a few that were accused of corruption b/c they were framed by their own dept/dupties ...ex Farahang the then trade minster...his dupties were corrupt and got million of dollars bribe ...and made him sign the contracts…..now he will be put on trial…. Another example of Gul Agha Shirzia..no matter what people tells of his character—Bacha Baz, he have done a lot for Nangarhar…last year I went there and could not recognize the city…he was also able to extract the opium…Nangarhar is opium free thanks to him. Same holds for Balkh…Ustad Atta is 12 grad educated but he have turn Mazair Sharaif around. In country like Afghanistan…you don’t need a PHD to be a successful or able leader.

[Dervaish]

We should think more positive. I understand the angle of thinking, but we do have competent leaders, It's just sad that they don't unfortunately represent us.

A proper election might help us, what do you say?

If those competent Leaders do not represent us. Are they Leaders of Pashtuns?

Proper Election? Will there be any?

Is a Leader known only by winning Election?

I did not get straight forward answer to my basic question . 'Do Pakhtuns have a Leader?'

The answer should be 'Yes. Mr. so and so" or "No".

[Khidr]

My unwavering belief in this.

A leader is not measured by his academic qualifications, or his lineage or his physical strength or even by his communication skills. A leader is measured subjectively and intangibly by the distance (or lack there-of) a group of people feel to him ideologically, emotionally and socially. There is a good Farsi poem about this which is not presently in my mind.


For this reason, the real leaders of the Pashtuns at present whether you like it or not, are the Taliban, since these people are living amongst the Pashtuns in the mountains of Kunar and deserts of Kandahar. They may not be academically or even logically intelligent or come from a respected tribal lineage or posses any physical strength but the average Pashtun relates more to them than any royal lineage or aristocrat Karzai or Ghani.

Now if this leader happens to be astute, then you are lucky, but if he happens to be an idiot like the present Taliban, then you're screwed.


For us Tajiks, Shahid Massoud was a real leader (and thankfully he was astute too) yesterday, and Atta Muhamad Noor is a real leader today. Rabbani, Fahim, and these guys are not even worthy enough to clean Shahid Massoud’s or Atta’s shoes.