Are Indians foes or friends?

[Azmal]

I don't want to turn this into an Indian-bashing thread but what do you people say about Indians? They are very close to Northern Alliance. I can well imagine how in future they most likely would be fighting on the side of Punjabis e.g., when we will be fighting with Punjabis for control of Attok, Hazara, Tarbela, etc. There is good possibility they will come to the help of with whom they share more than us.

I think we Pashtuns should be skeptical of Indians intentions towards us.

Toor khana,
With each post I become more skeptical of your true intension in here… India have no choice but to promote Pashton nationalism for it will prevent the Pakistanis to use brainwashed village Pashtons as foot solider in Kashmir… to stand up against the Dewbandi/Wahabi dogmas… India siding with NA was more of short term and base on lack of alternative… remember enemy of enemy is a friend. Pakistan is our common enemy!


YouTube - India Afghanistan Friendship A Short Documentry - Hamsaya

Hope for a day to have our border with India at Jahlaam.

[Azmal]

INdia is not a traditional donor , but they donated 1 billion $ plus for afghanistan.

They are not friends, they never can be , they are just playing there for their interest.

One can never forget what NA did to pashtuns.

Dear Paki boy,
Just for record NA consisted of Pashton too... Hazb e Atahad e Milee lead by Abdul Rab Rasool Sayaf, de Nangarhaar Shoraa lead by late Jabarkhil brothers Hajib Qader, Abdul Haq....and tons of other Pashton like late deputy director of intelligence Abdullah Laghamni. The real problem for us Pashtons are the Pakistanis and their Spaag Pathans who are sucking the blood of our nation..the cancer is British created paki-land and the Paki made new brand of Islam that has been born and raised in the DirtyLand some 40 years ago. Remember, the Pakis promoted this kind of behavior for their personal gain 40 yrs ago. Zia ul haq used to say; " The pot must boil in Afghanistan but it should not spill to Pakistan!". I have heard him on TV saying that in 1985. Hope he will go straight to jahanam for his cruelty against their Muslim neighbors. To the ISI it was OK to use violence against Afghanistan and India but God forbids it for Kasafatistan. Today thanks allah these pakis are just having a taste of their own medicine. Well, guess what? The pot that they burn in Afghan land with blood of Pashtons has spoiled over to Pakistan and people who play with fire will get burned.
The thing that makes me very sad is the bad name they have helped associate with our pure , loving, peaceful religion. My heart is bleeding for 3 million something Afghans/Pashton who were and continue being murdered by the Pakis/ISI and their vicious plans.
May the blood of our Shuhada turn into another tsunami and clean up the Dirtyland. As hard as I try, I can not find a grain of sympathy for the Pakis, sorry and Allah ( SWT) forgive me for this hardness in my heart.

[Azmal]

Toraman, we dont need help from curry munchers (Pakistan/India).

Our true power lies in unity, thats how we can rise.

Sad, people talk about Pashton and yet can not speak pashto nor can comprehend Pasthonwali----hospitality.
We not only need help from democratic, secular India but all the peace loving countries in the world...in order to fight our enemy...Pakistan. Make no mistake, its either Afghanistan or Pakistan…both can not exist together.

[Toramana]

The biggest curse of Afghanistan is Pashtun/Tajik chauvinism. The day you guys get rid of this menace and pursue an united Afghan vision, no foreign power will be able to mess around with you.

Till then, you guys will be pawns in the hands of foreigners and will continue killing each other. The players will change: US/Russia/Pakistan/Iran/India/China ; but this fact will remain constant.

Divide and Rule, never fails !

Once Afghanistan becomes successful [25-50 yrs] , Durand Line will unravel and K-P will fall into your lap.

Drona, I am afraid you are being too parochial...Why not look into the distant past like when Haphthalites, etc. and other hordes marched right into the heart of India holding Indian sovereignty hostage for almost 1500 years? If measured on that scale, Afghanistan/Pashtuns have not fared that bad although at the time being their social structures are breaking down - a necessary phase of the historical process-so the upheaval.

Pashtuns and other communities are going to find the terms and conditions and rules of the games on the basis of which to live with each other. Sermons and advices are good but they are too impractical. If that were the case Indians and Pakistanis, Sri-Lankans etc. would have sorted their issues with each other and we would not be suffering from the fall-out of their mutual hostilities.

[Nokia_Apridy]

Deu Asam ka malgrey nashta

deu Babri jummat ka malgrey na wu

deu 85 ka Sekanu banday Qhar oyrwalay wu halta ya malgrey nashta

nu zma pa KHAWA ba Sa MALGREY SHAY ?.........[

[KhalsaWarrior]

India will support whatever helps it ward off Pakistan's influence in the region. And of course, it has chosen a better way of doing it. Rather than choosing violence it chose to help build Afghanistan's infrastructure, training its military and its bureaucrats. Thats a long term investment and far-sighted investment.

[Khidr]

Having been to the north, and speaking to certain individuals of “political prominence” and your ordinary people on the street, India is by far the most popular neighbour and most active in the North. A lot of military, intelligence and other professionals amongst the Tajiks have spent time in India for training, “unofficially” ofcourse over the last 10 years. The relationship has a lot more depth than it did in 2001.

While Iran and Russia were allies in the war against Taliban, Iran’s Akhundi regime is deeply mistrusted if not hated. Russia is kept to an arm’s length in favour of appeasing U.S.
India is seen as a natural ally in peacetime and obviously also in the event of another war.
Kudos to India.

[KhalsaWarrior]

Having been to the north, and speaking to certain individuals of “political prominence” and your ordinary people on the street, India is by far the most popular neighbour and most active in the North. A lot of military, intelligence and other professionals amongst the Tajiks have spent time in India for training, “unofficially” ofcourse over the last 10 years. The relationship has a lot more depth than it did in 2001.

While Iran and Russia were allies in the war against Taliban, Iran’s Akhundi regime is deeply mistrusted if not hated. Russia is kept to an arm’s length in favour of appeasing U.S.
India is seen as a natural ally in peacetime and obviously also in the event of another war.
Kudos to India.

Good to hear that, Khidr. I just hope our policy makers use this goodwill to good effect. Its not often that a country gets a chance to shape and rebuild the future of another country. And India should do all that it can to cultivate a friend in the region.

[Son of Mountains]

Traitors are Friends of Traitors!

[Khidr]

The biggest curse of Afghanistan is Pashtun/Tajik chauvinism. The day you guys get rid of this menace and pursue an united Afghan vision, no foreign power will be able to mess around with you.

Till then, you guys will be pawns in the hands of foreigners and will continue killing each other. The players will change: US/Russia/Pakistan/Iran/India/China ; but this fact will remain constant.

Divide and Rule, never fails !

Once Afghanistan becomes successful [25-50 yrs] , Durand Line will unravel and K-P will fall into your lap.

My friend, see this is where you are not seeing the bigger picture. The concept of Indian unity is very broad, inclusive and has national consensus. Irrespective of whom you ask, a Sikh, Hindu, Tamil, Most Muslims, or a Christian will tell you essentially the same thing.

This concept of “Afghan-Unity” is ambiguous, narrow, exclusive and differs depending on which Afghan you ask!

I was for “Afghan unity” (at least my interpretation of it lol) because for me it meant a united, free Afghanistan with equality amongst ethnic groups politically, linguistically and socially. An Afghanistan with its current borders! An Afghanistan where ethnic identity became secondary for the sake of the sustainable 21st century concept of nationality and pluralism.

However, very quickly I have seen that the “Afghan Unity” for a Pashtun means something completely different. Afghan Unity for them means unity with their “real” Afghan brothers, and the creation of a Greater-Afghanistan, where Pashto and Pashtun culture and Pashtun identity of the state reign’s supreme, and everybody else are just second class “minorities.”

These are fundamental and irreconcilable differences between Pashtuns and the non-Pashtuns, which will ensure Afghanistan remains a weak divided “state” on life support until the day the people whom created the modern state of Afghanistan 100 years ago (Imperialist superpowers of West and East) decide to end its life support and divide it into two.

It’s sad and it genuinely hurts me to say this, for I'm hardly anything but an ethnic chauvinist but it’s the only option. Division!

[Toramana]

Excellent comment, Afghan princes. Driven by the genuine national interest to pre-empt the rise of Taleban in Afghanistan again for the repurcussion of that development in Kashmir and the consequent emboldening of Pakistan to reactivate its extremist fronts with India, India is drawing closer to one component of NA especially i.e., Tajak. I am afraid they are not maintaining balance. And this is not a wise policy in the long run.

Tajaks have limited role to play in Central Asia.

They must know that these are not Tajaks that can help them release pressure in Kashmir. Tajaks are up in the north far away to have any role in South Asia or impact things in Kashmir, etc. They should also realise that Pashtuns happen to be in proximity with China and extend all the way from Northern Areas (Pakistan) to Baluchistan where Gawarar is. They should also know that the gas pipe line that would be constructed between Turkamanistan India would run for much of its length through Pashtun areas.

Pashtun secularists/liberals are the natural allies of the liberal world. And they should be supported not antagonised.

[drona]

^
All ethnic groups have equal role to play in Afghanistan. We would never support tyranny of the majority. Anyways if you feel that by building schools, hospitals, roads and training bureaucrats, teachers, lawyers India is "drawing closers to Tajaks", you are entitled to your opinion.

But I would advice you to direct your energies towards liberating your fellow Pakistani Pashtuns from Panjabi/Mohajir hegemony rather than spreading unsubstantiated rumors and innuendos over Internet.

Thank You

[Shayesta]

^ The reason why Indians haven't been as active in South is because many Southerners are still in love with Taliban who will reject every single foreign aid since that's their way of expressing 'ghairat', but also because many things built in South will be destroyed following day. It's not India's fault Tajiks tend to appreciate their help more than Pukhtoons accept their help more than Pukhtoons because Tajiks indeed love India, just go to Northern Afghanistan once. There is a shopping-center called Lycee Maryam and many Indians tend to visit that place, many Afghans greet them with 'bhai jaan' and after they have a chat Afghans will say 'khub ast ke Hindustan ware dost ham darem'. Which means, it's good we got a friend like India. Everyone knows why India is friends with us, no doubts. But people are extremely sure that India won't make same stupid mistakes like all others by supporting Afghans to blow themselves up and many Afghans believe India is only foreign country in Afghanistan which understands Afghans and Afghanistan, and that's why they are being appreciated by the entire nation.

Usually, India has been licking the butts of Tajiks, I remember when Kandahar was the de-facto capital of Afghanistan Indians were supporting Tajiks.

Not Tajiks, they have just always tried to be friends with Afghan nation; Don't forget Pukhtoons like Sardar Daud Khan, Mohammad Najibullah and etcetera who were also supported by India. And if majority of Afghans are doing something which doesn't fit Indian agenda then I don't understand why they shouldn't support the minority?

they never can be , they are just playing there for their interest.

No country in the world will be your friend unless their own interest lies in yours, so that's nothing new. The question is just whether India is harming us as much as our 'friendship' with neighboring countries has? The answer is a big fat no.

One can never forget what NA did to pashtuns.

Can you stop bringing Northern Alliance to every single thread like a little girl?

The reason it's so hard to unify with Tajiks is because of their chavinistic attitude, they are hardly 20 percent(30percent including Persianized Pashtuns)yet they plan on running a country.

Hardly 20%, and you are not even joking!? I agree that Dari speaking Pukhtoons are there in at least hundred-thousands, but to say Tajiks only form 20% of the country is beyond ridiculous!

There is a reason they have never controlled Afghanistan because the minute they gain a tip of power they denounce and bash the countrys largest ethnic group, the Pashtuns.

Just like how some Pukhtoon leaders have done upon minorities, right? Remember Habibullah Kalakani, a Tajik, who was supported by Pukhtoons as well (while Tajiks supported a Pukhtoon named Amanullah Khan) but can't remember when and how he bashed Pukhtoons?

[drona]

My friend, see this is where you are not seeing the bigger picture. The concept of Indian unity is very broad, inclusive and has national consensus. Irrespective of whom you ask, a Sikh, Hindu, Tamil, Most Muslims, or a Christian will tell you essentially the same thing.

This concept of “Afghan-Unity” is ambiguous, narrow, exclusive and differs depending on which Afghan you ask!

I was for “Afghan unity” (at least my interpretation of it lol) because for me it meant a united, free Afghanistan with equality amongst ethnic groups politically, linguistically and socially. An Afghanistan with its current borders! An Afghanistan where ethnic identity became secondary for the sake of the sustainable 21st century concept of nationality and pluralism.

However, very quickly I have seen that the “Afghan Unity” for a Pashtun means something completely different. Afghan Unity for them means unity with their “real” Afghan brothers, and the creation of a Greater-Afghanistan, where Pashto and Pashtun culture and Pashtun identity of the state reign’s supreme, and everybody else are just second class “minorities.”

These are fundamental and irreconcilable differences between Pashtuns and the non-Pashtuns, which will ensure Afghanistan remains a weak divided “state” on life support until the day the people whom created the modern state of Afghanistan 100 years ago (Imperialist superpowers of West and East) decide to end its life support and divide it into two.

It’s sad and it genuinely hurts me to say this, for I'm hardly anything but an ethnic chauvinist but it’s the only option. Division!

Khidr,

I really don't think that partition of the country is the ideal solution. As shown in the case of India/Pakistan, this will only result in hardening of hostilities between the two groups. Entrenched elites who have a vested interest in perpetuating the hostilities is the worst thing that can happen to their respective people.

The inter-ethnic rivalries of Afghans have valid historical reasons. However the educated people from all ethnicities must realize that the atrocities were committed not by "Pashtuns" or "Tajaks" but power hungry individuals who manipulated the prejudices and grievances of their own people to enrich themselves.

The best solution for Afghanistan is if a reconciliation between Pashtuns/Tajaks. I hope my government can play a positive role by using its hard-earned goodwill to bridge the differences between the two groups.

[Toramana]

^
All ethnic groups have equal role to play in Afghanistan. We would never support tyranny of the majority. Anyways if you feel that by building schools, hospitals, roads and training bureaucrats, teachers, lawyers India is "drawing closers to Tajaks", you are entitled to your opinion.

But I would advice you to direct your energies towards liberating your fellow Pakistani Pashtuns from Panjabi/Mohajir hegemony rather than spreading unsubstantiated rumors and innuendos over Internet.

Thank You

My Indian friend, that would be principled stance if it were not a diplomatic whitewash over what many Pashtuns see as the active role of Indians in fomenting ethnic tensions by building the political and military muscle of a minority to the influence/hold of which Selig Harrison, the American analyst, has beautifully reffered to as "Tyrany of a Minority". In fact, India's, tilt towards Tajaks is so much that even secular Pashtuns like ANP who used be traditionally more favourable towards India have started talking about it.

I am copying its link here.

Hope this helps inject some sense into how you or other Indians think.

Afghanistan’s Tyranny of the Minority

"AS the debate intensifies within the Obama administration over how to stabilize Afghanistan, one major problem is conspicuously missing from the discussion: the growing alienation of the country’s largest ethnic group, the Pashtun tribes , who make up an estimated 42 percent of the population of 33 million. One of the basic reasons many Pashtuns support the Taliban insurgency is that their historic rivals, ethnic Tajiks, hold most of the key levers of power in the government...."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/17/op...7harrison.html

In fact what is India doing is counter productive to its interests as the above paragraph amply expresses.

Rest, I will do whatever in the interest of my people whether that is to trade with China or India.