The political divide

[Toramana]

As we know there are forum members here with diverse political veiws. Some, like Khayal, BLS, etc. are outright Afghan/Pashtun imperialists(hahaha kidding, don't mind), some are Afghan nationalist that want cohesion between all citizens of THE PRESENT DAY Afghanistan irrespective of ethnic background, some are Pakistani nationalits that ostensibly support brotherly relations between Pakistan and Afghanistan but want the Durand Line intact (and furthermore probably want a Pakistani-sponsored govt in Kabul), and some, e.g., Ijaz Yousafzai, me, etc., are Pashtun nationalists wanting pan-Pashtun unity.

There is one strand common though between Pakistani and Afghan nationalists amidst mutual hostality i.e., both don't like Pashtun nationalism/nationalists. That is why Ijaz Yousafzai was targetted. If one carefully observes, Afghan nationalists try to demean Pashtuns from Pukhtunkhwa whereas Pakistani nationalists make effort to project a bad image of Pashtuns from Afghanistan.

I am of the feeling some members especially Afghan nationalists might be feeling uneasy about the presence of Pashtun nationalists in particular and Pashtuns from Pukhtunkhwa in general here for their perception of it to be detrimental to their view of "Afghan Unity".

What do you people think about it?

[pir_Rokhan]

My analysis is as follows:

The political divide is not digital in nature as politics itself is a normative science and hence there are grey areas which need to be identified. One of the misconceptions I observe is that there is an inability to differentiate between academic reality and political reality.

PF has members who are Wahabist Islamist, Pan Islamist, Pashtun Nationalists, Afghan Nationalists, and Pakistani Nationalists.
The Wahabi Islamists version believes in the interpretation of Abdul Wahab about religion. Their political ideas support Kingship or autocracy under the authority of some Ameer ul Momineen. For them Afghanistan, Pakistan, Pashtuns, non Pashtuns are immaterial. I call it academic or utopian stance about the politics of the Afpak.

The Pan Islamist version is more sophisticated version of Islamists who present some socio-politico-economic model too. However it is also a utopian idea based on their collective nostalgia and has roots in their faith due to the optimistic interpretation of a couple of injunctions in Quran and Sunnah. It is a global autocracy with powers resting in the hands of a Khalifa for the whole Muslim world.

Pashtun Nationalists’ view is not in accordance with the political realities on ground. It is partly beneficial in case it is used to win freedom for the Pashtuns of occupied Pakhtunkhwa however it is fatal to use the same concept in case of Afghanistan because it is already a Pashtun majority state and unitary in nature contrary to the federation of Pakistan. However Pashtun nationalists’ emphasis on Pashto to enrich its literary, cultural and academic base is justified.

Afghan nationalists’ view, in my opinion, is in concurrence with the essence of practical as well as long term politics for multiple reasons. It does not compromise the majority and influential role of Pashtuns, it gives due regard to the literary and historical role of non Pashtuns and bind them in a bond for a progressive future of Afghanistan, it ensures tolerance towards the religious and ethnic differences of other Afghans and it is the only way to survive in a challenging neighborhood of India, China, Pakistan and Iran and other central Asian states. It is only by evolving as Afghan nation “in the Political sense” that not only Pashto and Pashtuns can be safeguarded but also can Afghanistan claim its occupied territory from Pakistan through peaceful means using recognized means of resolving bilateral issues between states and in worst case scenario can even assert it via other means.

The Pakistani nationalism is just territorial in nature and though hard might the non Punjabis strive for it and be loyal to it, the result will be in vain not because their efforts would be fruitless but due to the reason that the very nature and foundation of Pakistan has intrinsic contradictions which have to be removed before it becomes a respectable state in the world community.

[ComradePashtun]

Toramana,

Nice thread. Any short term philosophy is doomed. You could categorise me as Afghan nationalist, I know many have reffered to me as one, which I don't mind and which I take pride in. There is a certain rationale in my thinking and I am glad that to large extend an intact and powerful Afghansitan I desire is essnetially what BLS and our Emporer Khyaal Laala also attach themselves to. Given our current circumstances, history, politics and etc. which all go hand and hand, I belive we are on more realistic and solid grounds than the rest.

I am entirely not uncomfortable with any brother as long as they don't pose threat in any way to Afghanistan. And this because linking back to the original idea. You guys need to realistic and do away with woolly ideas and hype. You need to organise Pashtuns within Pakistan first and then think of your next step. It is like a ladder, if try to jump up 5 steps, you may fall, you may injure yourself badly or even kill youself.

[ComradePashtun]

Pir Rokhan,

I am not even going to praise you bro.

[pir_Rokhan]

Comrade
Praise is the technique to conquer the feeble minded. It will be appreciated if you give the reasons for your view. BTW,I corroborate your view about Afghan nationalism. It is politically correct view , as I mentioned in my post.

[ComradePashtun]

No need to worry bro, unless some one has the intention to insult your intelligence perceiving you mind feeble to conquer. I am glad I haven't.

My reasons can be short changed with what you have stated and my basic critique of the others' views. We will have a detailed discussion another time , inshallah. I need to take care of something for time being, hope you and others carry on for now.

[Michin Khel]

I think i dont fit into any of the catagory mentioned by our brother toramana. I consider myself a pashtun who is citizen of pakistan. I do not believe in pakistani nationalism, i am a pashtun nationalist within pakistani scope (like ANP). Pakistan is my country but pashtun is my identity. I recognize and respect role of islam in pashtuns but i reject it when it is used against my people as a tool. I believe athiest pashtuns should remain themeselves to e-world, they have no practical role in pashtun world.
Unlike khyaal, pir rokhan, nadir shah etc i dont believe in calling pashtuns of pakistan as slaves and sell outs, it is insult. I believe that they are ill-knowledged, if they are made aware of facts, their focus can be changed from pakistanism to pashtunism.
Like comradepashtun i think first the enviroment of pakhtunkhwa should be changed and prepared then after that comes the concept of unity.
I dont care about the minorities of afghanistan, their views about pashtun unity are very obvious.

[pir_Rokhan]

Luffy wrora

I do not believe that the Pashtuns of Pakhtunkhwa are sellouts, only the pro establishment and pro Punjab among them are. Yes they are enslaved but they do not realise their slavery. I agree it is an insult for them hence they should support the freedom struggle along with others for freedom of Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa paving the way for Loy Afghanistan.

If by Pashtunism you mean Pashtun nationalism then I have already given my view about it in my post.

Pakistan is our country but not our motherland [watan]. Countries are bound to change but motherland do not. Though debatable it might be for you, but the westren part of INDUS mainly belongs to Afghanistan and poeple of the same ethnic and cultural origin cannot be segregated geographically for long.

It is my prediction that Pashtuns of Pakistan and Afghaistan are destined to get united. It will be unfortunate if they lose their non-Pashtun brothers [projected as enemies by the enemies of Afghanistan] who are and have been part of Afghanistan now but the political realities and hostilities as well as historic ties will keep them together with Pashtuns of Afghanistan.

I also envision that even the Sindhis of Pakistan will merge with those in Inida as will the Punjabis of Pakistan with eastren Punjab. The Bengalis in India will also merge their brethren in Bangla Desh. Another major divide which I see is the division of North and South India. South India will become another country called Tamil Nado.

[pir_Rokhan]

Prince wrora

No physical occupation of Pashtuns implies soverignty of Pashtuns , their right of self determination or in other words the freedom of Pashtuns of Pakhtunkhwa. Therefore you should strive for the freedom of your nation to guard yourself from anxiety,confusion and depression as your unconscious wants freedom and your conscious will comepll you to justify your current invissible enslaved status hence making your mind a battle filed between your conscious and unconscious desires.

[pir_Rokhan]

Im a free thinker. My thoughts are based on what is the best for all Pashtuns, and not for other political entities.

What else is best for any nation except Freedom.

[شمله ور خراساني]

The prophet muhammad sal allahu alayhi wasalam said in an authentic hadeeth: my ummah (nation) shall not gather upon falsehood (baatil)

In another authentic hadeeth he said that islam (qur'an, sunnah, shariah) is haqq. He also said: akhirah is haqq, Hell is haqq, paradise is haqq and he sal allahu alayhi wasalam is haqq.

Now, we as Pashtuns dont have honor without islam. Who were we before Islam? Did we conquer before Islam? Did we prevail before islam? Did we have any credit with Allah before Islam? Did we achieve anything before Islam?

No, because Allah has given us honor and dignity with Islam. The pinnacle of our history as a nation was after we entered Islam. We have purified ourselves, we have helped to spread the religion of haqq and we have crushed and destroyed the false idols. We are the sons of the ummah of the prophet muhammad sal allahu alayhi wasalam. We are the people who uphold our values as Muslims today. This is why we are honored by many Muslims and non Muslims for our perseverance in religion.

Now, who are the secular nationalists and atheists?

The nationalist are the people who want us to gather upon that which Allah and his messenger have despised. They promote apostasy, immorality, sodomy, ghani khans poetry, ismail shahid, American occupation of our land and prostitution of our women. These secularists have made statements for which they have made it permissible for Muslims to spill their blood.

Most outspoken secularist demagogues here on Pashtunforums mock recitation of qur'an; they defend the atrocities of crusaders in our land, they defend the evil actions of secularist and communist criminals.

Pashtuns are Muslims. And these secularists and nationalists are the enemies of Muslims. So why would we be united if people have such conflicting interests and beliefs? The more divided we are from such degenerate and immoral people who are nothing more than pigs and swines in human form the better.

The secularists and nationalist who look forward to bombings and killings of our people by the invaders go about accusing the people with dignity and honor who oppose the crusaders for being ISI. But these evil wrongdoers, the secularists are the ones who have fornicated with their Russian, Indian and American masters and they have been ideologically sodomized by many others. Now, their leaders, gosfandyar zaleel khan and khabees kharzai are in bed with the very same pakistani elite.






In fact it is the leadership of the secularist nihilists who are in favor of division of Pashtuns.

Most secularist work for American and other Western interests. it is like when a South American prostitute who use to live in our neighborhood in Holland would get into an argument with people and call others bad names. This is what the secularists are doing. While you are living off the criminal jobs you have working as servants of infidels, oppressors and terrorists, you accuse others of things people are entirely innocent of.

All these secularists and nationalists would sell their own mother to any best Punjabi officer in order to earn some credit with their masters and please the Americans.

May allah humiliate the secularists in this life and the hereafter.

[Maiwand]

These secularists and nationalists are indeed the biggest losers. They haven't achieved anything in the past or present. They have only subjugated our people to foreign powers and helped them to plunder our resources. They have committed the worst kinds of atrocities on our people, in the name of liberation, freedom and democracy. No Afghan or muslim will ever forgive them or forget their crimes. And when these filthy munafiqs and disbelievers die or are killed by the mujahideen, they will face a heavy torment and punnishment. Now is the time for them to repent and become muslims, otherwise they will remain losers in this life and the biggest losers in the hereafter.

Indeed as brother Shamlawar has said, we can only get our dignity and respect of the whole world, like the Taliban are respected even by their enemies, is to stick to Islam. We will gain our power and dignity only with Islam back. Every other ideology and system that was adopted by the muslims in the last centuries has failed us, we have become the most miserable and weak people of the whole world, but when we go back to Islam we will be again supreme in the whole world and East and West will tremble before us, just as in the time of the Khalifate.

[شمله ور خراساني]

You know whats really funny, once the Taliban have defeated the crusaders and have repelled the attacks from our enemies, the very same secular nationalist pimps and prostitutes will claim that it is "their people" who have done this.

Just like the defeat of Soviet Union. After that, these evil secularists were saying that Afghans have defeated them.

Its the same story over and over.

Suppose (god forbid) that Americans win the war, these people will dye their hair blond and change their names to George and Steve and send their children to have breast implants and piercings.

[Maiwand]

You know whats really funny, once the Taliban have defeated the crusaders and have repelled the attacks from our enemies, the very same secular nationalist pimps and prostitutes will claim that it is "their people" who have done this.

Just like the defeat of Soviet Union. After that, these evil secularists were saying that Afghans have defeated them.

Its the same story over and over.

Suppose (god forbid) that Americans win the war, these people will dye their hair blond and change their names to George and Steve and send their children to have breast implants and piercings.

yeah, ahahha. That is so true. They have all the characteristics of the munafiqs and disbelievers, they look always to their narrow self-interest, without giving any importance to religion, morals, ethics, pride, dignity, ghairat, namoos etc. As long as they get a few Dollars, Roobels or Rupees, they are happy, no matter what they are doing, which regime they are supporting etc.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Dont appease and please your enemies. Be just, but dont compromise.