Islam and nationalism

[pir_Rokhan]

Sanagr Khana

You see , I dont think this about everyone. I dont want to hurt anyone. Let them find it themselves by referring to wiki or something else.This way they evolve and they feel it too.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Pir Rokhan thinks everyone is either stupid or crazy.

Schizophrenia Noun S: (n) schizophrenia, schizophrenic disorder, schizophrenic psychosis, dementia praecox (any of several psychotic disorders characterized by distortions of reality and disturbances of thought and language and withdrawal from social contact)

When did you become a Doctor, and its funny coming from a guy who beleives in Stoning people to death.

[inqilab]

My dear "Militant Mullah" [I think just Mullah was enough ,we know the implications]

It is very easy to pass verdicts that is one of the symptoms of a complicated disease in abnormal psychology however I would appreciate argument if you deem it necessary,ofcourse.

......... You lied. And i responded.

I dont believe in the Ahadith which you revere so much as your source and you dont even quote a single reference from Quran which is considered the primary source.

That ends the discussion does it not? I will not even bother.

Even though it was you who used ahadith to do what again?

"Do you want me to hurt your weak faith by something which is in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim [considered more important for the Salafis than Quran in most cases if not all] ? Do not get pissed off then."

And you failed. And both of you can keep using your british tactics of labeling people salafi or wahabi simply bc people do not accept your distorted propaganda of islam. You are just slandering them and lowering yourself into a taboo.

This opens to another distortion. You cannot understand the Quran without ahadith. Plain and simple. This even shows how your out of touch with the historical accounts of ahruf and qira'at of the Quran. It would have been impossible for you to read the Quran or more even understand it.

If you reject ahadith. By default you reject Quran.

[inqilab]

You know what i find amazing and so obvious is that they (militant Mullah and Sangar the european Salafis) say the those who follow Pashtunwali are Jahil and unislamic, and he says those who follow non arab bedion laws are non Muslims and Jahil, and like he said on his previous comment, that those who follow Pashtunwali are jahils, but what if we follow a european system of law, will we still be called Jahil even those their back sides are enjoying it while their desert bedions cant even organise a village without publically whipping those with clean shave faces.

No i said "jahil pashtunwali codes". Huge difference my dear. As i said in another thread. As long as the laws do not contradict islam. They are fine.

And i do not live in europe lol

If i did follow european laws, or any laws. Above islam. This would be shirk. Worst form of jahilia.

It goes beyond common sense.

lol funny coming from you.

Also he calls people as kaffirs and a shame to Pashtuns, but what is more shameful than betray your own Pashtunwali and adopt a System that is suited for backward Desert Arabs of Arabia.

Pashtunwali can be reformed but sadly Salafism and Wahabism can not be reformed as those who spread it are themselves extremely arrogant and only good at labelling others as kaffirs and non relgionous etc etc etc but they themselves feel at peace within a european society and i know for a fact they wouldnt want to leave such as country.

There you go again with your arabism and wahabi/salafi crap.

I do not even have to respond much. You will just keep exposing yourself with your anti-islamic comments. Then play dumb as if what you said is nothign wrong. Your british masters did a good job on you. They were the ones who spread all this form of nationalism to divide the muslim ummah. And it seems you are still mentally enslaved to their propaganda. Still a british lackey at the end.

A result of a bitter harvest. And i will not associate with people like that. Pashtun or not. My countrymen or not.

I am with muslims. Islam is more important to me.

[pir_Rokhan]

You lied. And i responded.

And you responded without understanding what I meant...Gosh!

Even though it was you who used ahadith to do what again?
"Do you want me to hurt your weak faith by something which is in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim [considered more important for the Salafis than Quran in most cases if not all] ? Do not get pissed off then." And you failed.

I just warned you initially when I said that do you want me to paste somethign which is going to shake your faith but then taking pity on your weak faith and weaker comprehension of religion I did not paste the funny things in your revered Sahihain books as I am not here for that. If you are confidant then please respond in the "Does God exist" thread. Let us discuss basic things to know how much of your faith belongs to the intellectual domain.

And both of you can keep using your british tactics of labeling people salafi or wahabi simply bc people do not accept your distorted propaganda of islam. You are just slandering them and lowering yourself into a taboo.

You see I never called you Wahabi/Salafi/Khalafi whatever though you may be one and for me it is fine as all the religeous poeple have the same misconceptions about life and universe hence it does not matter whether they call themselves X or Y. However these names have different POLITICAL implications which you dont seem to be interested in and which are my area of interest to be frank with you.

The British did use these techniques because they sensed the intrinsic weakness in the Indian/South asian society and today the ISI is using the same technique to make Afghan a certified nation of refugees who do not know anyhting else except kumak and kumak. I have a problem with the latter.I dont want my nation to be a begger nation.

This opens to another distortion. You cannot understand the Quran without ahadith. Plain and simple. This even shows how your out of touch with the historical accounts of ahruf and qira'at of the Quran. It would have been impossible for you to read the Quran or more even understand it.If you reject ahadith. By default you reject Quran.

This is what all Ahle hadith Saudis are indoctrinated to believe in because they can add their pro monarchic interpretations into Quranic interpretation only while it is very easy to do the same in Hadith both in text and interpretation.

However , to your disappointment , I am neither interested in Quran nor in Hadith. They were classic Arabic literary pieces with quite a lot of wisdom in them as all literary classics have.

The prophet of Islam was also a great Arab leader who contributed a lot to Arabs and humanity. Now the problem is that these classic books are in ARABIC which is not our language hence we are not accountable and nor do they offer any solution to the ills of humanity or for example for Afghans.And the man is no more there. So despite their historic importance and reverence , practically they are of no use to us. Hence I am neither against it nor in favour of it. This is the only scinetific behaviour . I accept things if they have some scientific proof or practical utility.

Neither can you prove God or other things scientifically nor your version of Islam have any solution to our problems so what shoud I do with it?

[شمله ور خراساني]

Its hilarious to see poor Mullah being accused of Salafism while in fact Mullah is one of the most hated Anti-Salafists out there. He crushed the Saudi Salafi nutjobs on different forums so often they actually hate him for every post now. haha!

AMazing how these fascists are unable to see the world as it is and only stamp and label everyone based on their silly limited perception and understanding.

[pir_Rokhan]

I am not aware of Mullah's Jihad agaisnt Salafis or whatever nor do I know about anyone's hatred towards him,however one thing I know is that you are fond of profiling people ,passing your verdicts soemtimes in religeous terms and soemtimes in political terms unwarrantedly. Apparently as no other normal person would do that so there must be soemthing wrong with your religosity as your other credentials do not qualify you for that.This is sad to say the least.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I am not aware of Mullah's Jihad agaisnt Salafis or whatever nor do I know about anyone's hatred towards him,however one thing I know is that you are fond of profiling people ,passing your verdicts soemtimes in religeous terms and soemtimes in political terms unwarrantedly. Apparently as no other normal person would do that so there must be soemthing wrong with your religosity as your other credentials do not qualify you for that.This is sad to say the least.

Kena marra!

you are here calling people stupid just because people are religious and not like you. You are here insulting our religion because we do not enjoin in your qawm-worship and social democrat nonsense.

And you complain saying we profile people?

Ghat sarrai ye, sharmege na?

[pir_Rokhan]

Kena marra!

you are here calling people stupid just because people are religious and not like you. You are here insulting our religion because we do not enjoin in your qawm-worship and social democrat nonsense.

And you complain saying we profile people?

Ghat sarrai ye, sharmege na?

I havent done anything like callin someone kafir,or fascist which makes me ashamed. Being a nationalist or Islamist is everybody's choice.

her saray paida day khpal khpal kar lara kana!

Ke tsenga ?

[MazloomyarMaseed]

No i said "jahil pashtunwali codes". Huge difference my dear. As i said in another thread. As long as the laws do not contradict islam. They are fine.

And i do not live in europe lol

If i did follow european laws, or any laws. Above islam. This would be shirk. Worst form of jahilia.



lol funny coming from you.

There you go again with your arabism and wahabi/salafi crap.

I do not even have to respond much. You will just keep exposing yourself with your anti-islamic comments. Then play dumb as if what you said is nothign wrong. Your british masters did a good job on you. They were the ones who spread all this form of nationalism to divide the muslim ummah. And it seems you are still mentally enslaved to their propaganda. Still a british lackey at the end.

A result of a bitter harvest. And i will not associate with people like that. Pashtun or not. My countrymen or not.

I am with muslims. Islam is more important to me.

With respect

It was the British who divided the Pashtun Nationalists by using any means even Islam to defame the Pashtun Nationalists such as Bacha Khan etc.

The British even prevented the Nationalists from voting in the Pakistan Referendem, so what is your arguement that Pashtun Nationalists such as me are tools of the British??? It was arabs who choose to side with the British to destroy the Ottomon khalifate and bring in Wahabism.

Also i would like to add another thing, During the east bengal war, it was the Islamic Parties who supported Pakistans war on bengalis with an Islamic justification, the JUI supported the massacre of innocent bengalis, and labelled those Bengalis who fought for their independence as Kaffir Nationalists, same with ANP, look at their history, the British saw the Pashtun Nationalists as a threat but Islamists as a great tool to divide India.

So please roara, dont just generalise one group of Nationalists with the whole Islamic ummah, Pashtuns have never ever declare war on any fellow Muslim, but Muslims have in many forms.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Question for the nationalists who accuse religious people of selling out to kuffar.

Who are the Afghan Millat Pashtun Nationalists allied with? How come majority of Karzai government are Afghan Millatis?

And who did Asfandyar Wali Khan choose as ally? Isn't ANP not Allied with Zardari?

While 46 countries of the world are united in their killing and massacre of your Pashtun kinsmen, the nationalist and socialist alcoholics and sell-outs are chiefs and ministers of those puppet regimes installed by the invaders.


I know Afghan Millatis very well. They are all bunch of alcoholics who spend governments money on lavish lifestyle.

If you nationalists are to much better howcome your leaders own porn cinemas in Peshawar?

[abubaker]

har chirtha chi afghan millatai da di khalilzad pa kuna nana wathai, thir kal di inthikhabato pa wakht ki mu ya so afghan millatyano sara thauthan mulaqath waso, au har yaw di alif na newali thar ya pori di khalil zad murtad ghulaman wal,

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Question for the nationalists who accuse religious people of selling out to kuffar.

Who are the Afghan Millat Pashtun Nationalists allied with? How come majority of Karzai government are Afghan Millatis?

And who did Asfandyar Wali Khan choose as ally? Isn't ANP not Allied with Zardari?

While 46 countries of the world are united in their killing and massacre of your Pashtun kinsmen, the nationalist and socialist alcoholics and sell-outs are chiefs and ministers of those puppet regimes installed by the invaders.


I know Afghan Millatis very well. They are all bunch of alcoholics who spend governments money on lavish lifestyle.

If you nationalists are to much better howcome your leaders own porn cinemas in Peshawar?

With respect roara

You are using certain charactistics of a group of people to support your anger.

Can you show me where the Achakzai Party owes porn cinemas in Peshawer?

Secondly, to be honest, ive never met nor do i know much about the Afghan Millet Party, but rest assured, not all Nationalists are like them.

Also I can say the same with a similar tone as yours, that why do regionous leaders such as fazul rehman of JUI get medical treatment in America and owe properties in so called Non Muslim countries whom they dispise and advise their followers not to be friends with, I can also say,why do Pro Khalifat followers accept money from the state of Pakistan to do jihad in Afghanistan and in India to harm civlians etc.

Also i can also add, that if porn cinemas are made by so called nationalists, then what about the suicide camps, where chidlren are shown images of women and rivers of milk to deceive the young mind, which is no different than the porn garbage.

Rest Assure, i agree with you in regards to the lack of confidence amongst Nationalists, as they are sold, traitors, followers of alien ideologies, not truely representing Pashtuns, but however, not all are like this, if you go to bolochistan and meet members of the PMAP and you will notice how orthodox and how Pashtun they truely are.

Iam a Nationalist, and i oppose what ever they do, in regards to what you have written, it doesnt make me one of them due to their ill habits.

I want Pashtun Unity, but not through coward and hipocrital methods.

I will never sell a fellow Pakhtana to serve the erotic desires or needs of anybody.

Thanks sanger.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

har chirtha chi afghan millatai da di khalilzad pa kuna nana wathai, thir kal di inthikhabato pa wakht ki mu ya so afghan millatyano sara thauthan mulaqath waso, au har yaw di alif na newali thar ya pori di khalil zad murtad ghulaman wal,

Dear Abubaker

There are many murtads even in Nationalist parties, but a bigger murtad is those who claim to fight for Allah but get training from ISI and CIA.

Thanks

[شمله ور خراساني]

With respect roara

You are using certain charactistics of a group of people to support your anger.

Can you show me where the Achakzai Party owes porn cinemas in Peshawer?

Secondly, to be honest, ive never met nor do i know much about the Afghan Millet Party, but rest assured, not all Nationalists are like them.

Also I can say the same with a similar tone as yours, that why do regionous leaders such as fazul rehman of JUI get medical treatment in America and owe properties in so called Non Muslim countries whom they dispise and advise their followers not to be friends with, I can also say,why do Pro Khalifat followers accept money from the state of Pakistan to do jihad in Afghanistan and in India to harm civlians etc.

Also i can also add, that if porn cinemas are made by so called nationalists, then what about the suicide camps, where chidlren are shown images of women and rivers of milk to deceive the young mind, which is no different than the porn garbage.

Rest Assure, i agree with you in regards to the lack of confidence amongst Nationalists, as they are sold, traitors, followers of alien ideologies, not truely representing Pashtuns, but however, not all are like this, if you go to bolochistan and meet members of the PMAP and you will notice how orthodox and how Pashtun they truely are.

Iam a Nationalist, and i oppose what ever they do, in regards to what you have written, it doesnt make me one of them due to their ill habits.

I want Pashtun Unity, but not through coward and hipocrital methods.

I will never sell a fellow Pakhtana to serve the erotic desires or needs of anybody.

Thanks sanger.

So basically, you are saying that if nationalists do bad things, it does not mean all Pashtuns who are patriotic and love their culture and language are bad.

And that if ANP members own porn cinemas in Peshawar it does not mean every Pashtun who loves his culture and language is a pimp.

Then if this is your reasoning, why do you accuse all religious people of being sell-outs, terrorists, and brainwashed salafi jihadis?

Who is Fazlulrahman? Is he the king of Islamism? Does it mean that if one wants Shari'ah law, he must be a follower of Fzlulrahman?

And if the pro Saudi clerics and Saudi royal family supports America and Israel, does this mean all Arab Muslims are bad people?

Don't you see that you have been accusing people of all sorts of things, while the same kind of reasoning can be used against you?

If you care about your people, and if you care about your language, culture and heritage, that does not make you a nationalist. Because nationalism is an idealogy invented by European philosophers. And those secularist corrupt *******s like Afghan Millat and that sell-out Asfandyar Wali Khan are just using Pashtun identity for their own personal interest?

We all love our culture, language, heritage, history and identity. We all want to prevent outsiders to dominate us. We all want to get rid of opressive rulers. We all want to cut the hands of those who interfere in our domestic politics. We all want to progress. We all want to get educated. We all want to develop our society for the better. And yet, keep our culture, language and identity intact.

So why do we have to use titles as nationalist, or Talib or Jamyati or whatver?

We are all Muslims first, of Pashtun origin. Our culture is a mixture of Islam and out ancient codes of ethics and morals.

We don't need to shave out beards and have silly moustaches wearing ill-fitted customs to pose as liberals and progressives.

Our religion does not prevent us from progress. Adhering to the Sunnah of our prophet does not contradict our Pashtun identity.

Today, most Muslim nations of the world have abandoned the Sunnah, while Pashtuns are the only people who have managed to hold on to their religion and idenity.

We have to be proud of who we are. We are the last bastion of true Islam. We are the last nation who is still free of Western corruption.

We are being threatened from all sides. They attack our religion to subdue us to assimilate to their values and mentality so they can enslave us like they enslaved Punjabis, Indians, Africans, Arabs and South Americans.

Our source of power and superiority lies not only in our Pashtun genes, but in our devout submission to Allah. They attack our culture by imposing Parsi and Punjabi on us. And they attack our religion by demonizing our religion.

So instead of choosing parties and choosing labels and names for ourselves to distinguish ourselves in concepts and groups invented by Europeans we should open our eyes and look at what we have in common. And what our common interests are.

We all share the same interest. We want to stay a free nation. We want to protect our culture, language religion and customs from perversion. We want to stop Pakistan, India, Iran America, Russia Soudi Arabia and Israerl from dominating our political landscape.

So why do we have to use stupid European terms as "nationalist" and "fundamentalist" or whatever to distinguish ourselves from one another?