I have a question

[karachipashtun]

Talal bhai

Its very sad but I must agree with Shlombay on this one most pashtuns here do not have places to live and live on picking up garbages and sell them to factories.

I had to pay so much rishwat just to get a passport , lets not talk about my I-D.


That is why Afghanistan is not mentioned here Pashtuns have a higher and better status compared to us. Even the Afghans in Karachi are very rich and wealthy.


Gulshan Iqbal is like completely fully of Afghans(Pashtuns) and they own beautiful houses.

[Talal]

Those are not Pashtun statistics.

Karachi has rich people like memon, not Pashtuns.

The richest people in Karachi are Afghans who own most of the markets and transportation.


Put it this way,
In Karachi the Pashtuns are garbage pickers they pick up garbage and sell them. In Kandahar, Pashtuns do not work. They have Jaidad which is land. Their income comes from their land. Most of the work in Kandahar is done by non-Pashtuns.

No offence to Karachi brothers but I am sure they can agree that in Karachi you find Pashtuns boys picking up papers and garbages and selling them.

That does not exist in Kandahar, they are way too proud.


I do not blame you Talal, you have not visited Karachi you do not know about it more then I do. I spent years in Karachi.

There is a reason why i said read the stastics bro, because i added in population stastics too. There are 28 million Pashtuns in Pakistan as compared to the 12 million in Afghanistan, the entire transport business in pakistan is owned by Pashtoons, they are presidents, army cheifs, world champions, teachers, professors.

There is poverty in pakistan yes but if your saying that only Pashtun kids pick up garbage then your wrong, their story and misery is shared by many others. And like many others they enjoy elite status too.

What i presented are stats combined by world agencies, if 28 million pashtuns were living in abject poverty Pakistan could never put forth such a high per capita rivalling that of one the worlds fastes growing economies.

[Talal]

Talal bhai

Its very sad but I must agree with Shlombay on this one most pashtuns here do not have places to live and live on picking up garbages and sell them to factories.

I had to pay so much rishwat just to get a passport , lets not talk about my I-D.


That is why Afghanistan is not mentioned here Pashtuns have a higher and better status compared to us. Even the Afghans in Karachi are very rich and wealthy.


Gulshan Iqbal is like completely fully of Afghans(Pashtuns) and they own beautiful houses.

Man i dont think you guys are understand what im saying, EVERY pakistani has to go through the SAME troubles as pashtuns do. You had to pay for your passport karachipashtun, well guess what ? so did my dad and so does every other Pakistani guy. Poverty is a problem shared by every pakistani ask your non-pashtun friends if they have never had to pay rishwat or if they never paid a dime to get anything done

[karachipashtun]

There is a reason why i said read the stastics bro, because i added in population stastics too. There are 28 million Pashtuns in Pakistan as compared to the 12 million in Afghanistan, the entire transport business in pakistan is owned by Pashtoons, they are presidents, army cheifs, world champions, teachers, professors.

There is poverty in pakistan yes but if your saying that only Pashtun kids pick up garbage then your wrong, their story and misery is shared by many others. And like many others they enjoy elite status too.

What i presented are stats combined by world agencies, if 28 million pashtuns were living in abject poverty Pakistan could never put forth such a high per capita rivalling that of one the worlds fastes growing economies.

You are wrong. From your posts I can tell you are basing everything off the internet.

My source is word of Pashtun leaders of Pakistan, and every Pashtun either from Pakistan or Afghanistan or the world believe in his words and his religion. And he said that some time ago. In fact just before ISI send a group of Jasos in Afghanistan to make Shah unstable.

September, 03, 1961 Pakistan Foreign Minister Manzur Qadir Made a issue, in front of Afghan and world leaders in UN meeting during Pashtunistan issue, He said that
"if the frontier of this country "Pakistan", has to be predetermined on Linguistic and ethnic bases as claimed by Afghans, it should also result in disintegration of Afghanistan as well, because within 15 million of this country Afghanistan has only 3.5 million Pakhtu, the rest are Persians, Turkish, Tajiks and Uzbeks all of these non-Pakhtu speaking people and their areas should be integrated within Soviet States, because we in total all over Pakistan have 8 million Pakhtuns twich the number of those in Afghanistan"


Afghan minister Jamali in response said "With all respect its not the issue of Persians and Turkish but rather the Pakhtun population itself, secondly we are not presenting the issue of Ethnicity or language as its complex for fellow member to understand the nature of Afghans and Afghan nation but rather the nations of Pakhtu and majority of Afghanistan are of one people. In according to our 1951 record yes we had 3.5 million Pakhtu speaker but bring such issues of demography will be useless as for the knowledge of language is not an issue in Afghanistan."
a) Afgan respond was like "Stupid we had 3.5 million Pashtuns in 1950 when our population was not 15 million, and now that we have 15 million Pakhtu people also increased and it does not correspond to your crapy claims"
b) "We are fighting for rights of Pakhtuns not the rights of Northerners they can leave if they want"
c) "You people are stupid and don't know what afgan means so therefore it makes no sense to argue with you"
In 1970s A new table was Given to UN accepted and it counted Afghan population of 18 million with Pashtu speaker being 55% in 1973 being 10 million and Pakistan having 11 million.


However in 1990s What Pakistan said was to become true there were 17 million Pakhtuns in Pakistan and only 9 million in Afghanistan because of refugees puring into Pakistan combined with locals, but I still didn't buy it, because in 1998 they made the same argument toward India "We have more Afgans in Pakistan then in Afghanistan, so yes Afghanistan can be part of Pakistan" The papers of signing of Durand line then refused by heads of Talibans, by 1999 which CIA/ISI Aid was over and Puppy became famous, in 2000 decision was taken for US invasion of Afghanistan by the help of Pakistan.





If we count those of India as I said would be 31 million

http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/PAS_PER/PATHAN.html

would be more Pakhtuns than in Pakistan, LOL why not them as Well? So What now India is the true home of Afgan race? Pak Govt just BS to be related with Pakhtuns, and many lies either for being an Arab or being Pathan, we had many of them here in this forum, the come and go, and all them lied so much that i myself forgotten how to lie.
Just answer one question,

When at time Afghan population was 9 million in late 1880s why did British said "by now we now taken 25% of its population and 50% of its land completing the boundries between British India and Afghan Amir" Which means it made sense by the time of 1930s population from 2 million reached 3 million, in 1948 Total population of Pakhtuns reach 6% of represented in 1960s it was 8%, and tell me how did 8% reached to 15%http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/pco/...her_tongue.pdf
Well in Wikipedia this is what they said in pashtu was 8.16% in 1951 still I want to know how it did it came to 15.42 in 1998 almost double, while Afghan's percentage remained same all this time.
LOL Read this see if it makes sense
"Pashto (Provincial Language)
Pashto is spoken as a first language by 15% of Pakistanis, mostly in the North-West Frontier Province, Federally Administered Tribal Areas and in Balochistan as well as by immigrants to the eastern provinces who are often not counted due to census irregularities. Additionally, Afghan refugees are often outside the census count, but appear to be largely Pashto speakers from Afghanistan. Pashto speakers are almost 8% of Pakistani population and more than 50% in Afghanistan."http://www.pakistans.com/pakistan/language/

Even the most uneducated Pakistan knows Pashtu is not the second largest group, althought Pakistan in 1998 promised a status in Gov, that they will make Pashtu as their second language replacing English in the future but that future depends on Durand Line. LOL right call for Pashtunization then go to Pakistan, where 4% Punjabi-Pashtu speakers be 90% Pashtu speakers by 2050 and Pashtu will be the national language, and they too would be called "Pashtun" just as Farsi became Afghan language labeled us as "Persian" for long long time in the history of Khorasan.. LOL funny huh!

[Talal]

You are wrong. From your posts I can tell you are basing everything off the internet.

My source is word of Pashtun leaders of Pakistan, and every Pashtun either from Pakistan or Afghanistan or the world believe in his words and his religion. And he said that some time ago. In fact just before ISI send a group of Jasos in Afghanistan to make Shah unstable.

September, 03, 1961 Pakistan Foreign Minister Manzur Qadir Made a issue, in front of Afghan and world leaders in UN meeting during Pashtunistan issue, He said that
"if the frontier of this country "Pakistan", has to be predetermined on Linguistic and ethnic bases as claimed by Afghans, it should also result in disintegration of Afghanistan as well, because within 15 million of this country Afghanistan has only 3.5 million Pakhtu, the rest are Persians, Turkish, Tajiks and Uzbeks all of these non-Pakhtu speaking people and their areas should be integrated within Soviet States, because we in total all over Pakistan have 8 million Pakhtuns twich the number of those in Afghanistan"


Afghan minister Jamali in response said "With all respect its not the issue of Persians and Turkish but rather the Pakhtun population itself, secondly we are not presenting the issue of Ethnicity or language as its complex for fellow member to understand the nature of Afghans and Afghan nation but rather the nations of Pakhtu and majority of Afghanistan are of one people. In according to our 1951 record yes we had 3.5 million Pakhtu speaker but bring such issues of demography will be useless as for the knowledge of language is not an issue in Afghanistan."
a) Afgan respond was like "Stupid we had 3.5 million Pashtuns in 1950 when our population was not 15 million, and now that we have 15 million Pakhtu people also increased and it does not correspond to your crapy claims"
b) "We are fighting for rights of Pakhtuns not the rights of Northerners they can leave if they want"
c) "You people are stupid and don't know what afgan means so therefore it makes no sense to argue with you"
In 1970s A new table was Given to UN accepted and it counted Afghan population of 18 million with Pashtu speaker being 55% in 1973 being 10 million and Pakistan having 11 million.


However in 1990s What Pakistan said was to become true there were 17 million Pakhtuns in Pakistan and only 9 million in Afghanistan because of refugees puring into Pakistan combined with locals, but I still didn't buy it, because in 1998 they made the same argument toward India "We have more Afgans in Pakistan then in Afghanistan, so yes Afghanistan can be part of Pakistan" The papers of signing of Durand line then refused by heads of Talibans, by 1999 which CIA/ISI Aid was over and Puppy became famous, in 2000 decision was taken for US invasion of Afghanistan by the help of Pakistan.





If we count those of India as I said would be 31 million

http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/PAS_PER/PATHAN.html

would be more Pakhtuns than in Pakistan, LOL why not them as Well? So What now India is the true home of Afgan race? Pak Govt just BS to be related with Pakhtuns, and many lies either for being an Arab or being Pathan, we had many of them here in this forum, the come and go, and all them lied so much that i myself forgotten how to lie.
Just answer one question,

When at time Afghan population was 9 million in late 1880s why did British said "by now we now taken 25% of its population and 50% of its land completing the boundries between British India and Afghan Amir" Which means it made sense by the time of 1930s population from 2 million reached 3 million, in 1948 Total population of Pakhtuns reach 6% of represented in 1960s it was 8%, and tell me how did 8% reached to 15%http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/pco/...her_tongue.pdf
Well in Wikipedia this is what they said in pashtu was 8.16% in 1951 still I want to know how it did it came to 15.42 in 1998 almost double, while Afghan's percentage remained same all this time.
LOL Read this see if it makes sense
"Pashto (Provincial Language)
Pashto is spoken as a first language by 15% of Pakistanis, mostly in the North-West Frontier Province, Federally Administered Tribal Areas and in Balochistan as well as by immigrants to the eastern provinces who are often not counted due to census irregularities. Additionally, Afghan refugees are often outside the census count, but appear to be largely Pashto speakers from Afghanistan. Pashto speakers are almost 8% of Pakistani population and more than 50% in Afghanistan."http://www.pakistans.com/pakistan/language/

Even the most uneducated Pakistan knows Pashtu is not the second largest group, althought Pakistan in 1998 promised a status in Gov, that they will make Pashtu as their second language replacing English in the future but that future depends on Durand Line. LOL right call for Pashtunization then go to Pakistan, where 4% Punjabi-Pashtu speakers be 90% Pashtu speakers by 2050 and Pashtu will be the national language, and they too would be called "Pashtun" just as Farsi became Afghan language labeled us as "Persian" for long long time in the history of Khorasan.. LOL funny huh!

I had trouble understanding your post because i couldnt understand 90% of what was written.

But here is a response to the bold parts. My posts aren't based of internet they are based of the stats published by world agencies and your of the opinion that the people who have spent millions gathering this data every year are wrong as compared to your word ?

To that statment you posted by the pakistani minister, where is the source for the statement ?

Afghan minister Jamali in response, "We are fighting for rights of Pakhtuns not the rights of Northerners they can leave if they want"

And this man was the minister of Afghanistan ? What kind of idiot makes such a statement about the people of hiw country ? and morever about a visible minority ? and he was calling the pakistani minister "stupid" ?

NOW i have no idea what your argument regarding Pakistan's population growth is but here i hope this clears it up




Now if you look "closely" you will find out about Pakistan's population growth rate. If it still doesnt answer your question use a calculator

[Talal]

Man i have no idea how do you guys even come up with this logic Pashtuns have all that in afghanistan becaue they are a majority there. In Pakistan there are a million other people who are also Pakistanis and NOT pashtuns. So you realise we have to treat everyone equally ? right ?

How do they make us Pakistanis look bad yar... Afghanistan cant even take care of its own people 8 million of them ended up in Pakistan alone, how many went to Iran and other foreign nations

why do people talk about status when they have something to support that status, People are barely survivng there and still they say that we have "status". When a country is under foreign invasion, when foreigners come and buold everything in a country then how can the residents of that country talk about status ?

In Pakistan a pashtun earns 5 times more than a pashtun earns in Afghanistan. THATS status

Talal,
that is because they have a much better status then us in Afghanistan.

Everything to do with Afghanistan is regarding pashtuns, national language pashto, army ranks in pashto.

Pashtuns of Afghanistan make us look bad in status comparisons.

like another said.

we just after nearly 50 years were called Sarhadi(N.W.F.P) now look at what is happening.

Afghanistan means land of Pashtuns


Pashto is a required subject even in Universities you must take Pashto to graduate. While we in Pakistan do not have any pashto schools, in Pakistan we are losing our culture, our identity and our language.

[shinwari]

Talal, we dont expect you to be an expert of Pashtun affairs, but KarachiPashtuns reply was very,very clear.

can you post a source of where that guy said that?

And this isnt Pak govt vs Afg govt its Pashtuns of Afg vs Pashtuns of Pak. and to be frank here Afghans from Afghanistan enjoy a much better political status compared to Ethnic Afghans from Pakistan.

[shinwari]

Man i have no idea how do you guys even come up with this logic Pashtuns have all that in afghanistan becaue they are a majority there. In Pakistan there are a million other people who are also Pakistanis and NOT pashtuns. So you realise we have to treat everyone equally ? right ?

How do they make us Pakistanis look bad yar... Afghanistan cant even take care of its own people 8 million of them ended up in Pakistan alone, how many went to Iran and other foreign nations

why do people talk about status when they have something to support that status, People are barely survivng there and still they say that we have "status". When a country is under foreign invasion, when foreigners come and buold everything in a country then how can the residents of that country talk about status ?

In Pakistan a pashtun earns 5 times more than a pashtun earns in Afghanistan. THATS status

Provide a source that says 8million Afghan Pashtuns landed in Pakistan lol.


Pashtunkhwa is basically open for Afghans just like how Afghanistan is open more Pashtuns from Pakistan.


We do not have a border.

Afghans put the A in Pakistan regardless.

An Afghan can claim both countries since historically its their land for hundreds of years.

[Talal]

Talal, we dont expect you to be an expert of Pashtun affairs, but KarachiPashtuns reply was very,very clear.

can you post a source of where that guy said that?

And this isnt Pak govt vs Afg govt its Pashtuns of Afg vs Pashtuns of Pak. and to be frank here Afghans from Afghanistan enjoy a much better political status compared to Ethnic Afghans from Pakistan.

haha dude i quoted Karachi Pashtun, the guy i quoted in my reply i took his quote from karachipashtun's...the same reply you just said was excellent.

Again in Afghanistan there is no such thing as a "status" right now. Pashtuns in Afghanistan are a majority so they dominate but even with that status they are helpless, they earn less, they have a much worse lifestyle, a country under invasion and decades worth of legacies lost to war and communal violence. People keep saying status, you can have status "after" you have a life.

And i answered KarachiPashtun's reply and his argument regarding the absurd population growth, the stats are there

[karachipashtun]

so when I provide logic, its absurd?

Bhai, I am from Karachi our status SUCKS here. A passports costs us, an ID costs us we are often targeted by terrorists like MQM.

If it wasnt for us Afghans(Pashtuns) The Punjabis would by dying here too. We have them under our wing and supporting them since they are a minority here.

Re-read my post I am talking about Pashtuns you are talking about Pakistan.

[afghan]

^ Are you serious ? Pakistan and that includes Pashtuns has a per capita of $1027 (India, one of the biggest economies in south asia has a per capita of $1032) and Afghanistan where you say Pashtuns are the elite have a per capita of $293

That means a pashtun in Pakisan earns $1027 whereas an everage pashtun in Afghanistan earns $293 dollars..way to be elite

And Pakistan has a population 166,036,895 (2008) whereas Afghanistan has a population of 12,072,915 (1989)
Pakistan has 28 million pashtuns whereas Afghanistan has 12 million

talal has no idea what does elite mean? making more money wont make you an elite, just look up for the meaninig of elite. in tribal region and in afghanistan elite are suffering more than one else. your pakis has tried all of its best to destroy the elite on each side of durand line, by using religion, political power against pashtun elite as did the british and american, to destroy pashtun completely. now a days druglords and criminals are having more money than an elite, the good example is your president zardari, how many pashtun elite have seen servi8ng now afghan government? may be very few. but you pakistan are deprived by elite people you wont even know that.
lets come to your original question, why there are so many threads about pashtun in pashtunkhwa than afghanistan? very simple, pakist is the greater enemy of pashtun than anyone else. dont look far just look what happened in swat? whats happening in tribal region? who targetted so ISI (taliban) in pashtunkhwa? mostly pashtun elite. anyone who raising their voice for pashtun rights are targetted by taliban(ISI). who supported the and trained the terrorists in Afghanistan against Daud khan ? who tarained Masood, hekmatyar, sayaf, rabbani, mullah omar, may more who have brought the misery to afghanistan. I am sure you wouldnot know this, most pakies dont see beyond their nose.

[shinwari]

Talal
You lack knowledge in this subject.

Seems like your just googling your way through right now.

[Talal]

so when I provide logic, its absurd?

Bhai, I am from Karachi our status SUCKS here. A passports costs us, an ID costs us we are often targeted by terrorists like MQM.

If it wasnt for us Afghans(Pashtuns) The Punjabis would by dying here too. We have them under our wing and supporting them since they are a minority here.

Re-read my post I am talking about Pashtuns you are talking about Pakistan.

sir when did i say absurd we are talking about an argument. I really couldnt understand much the way you wrote it, from what i could understand you were arguing about how the pashtun population in Pakistan is so high today. I posted a graph from the world bank detailing Pakistans population growth, Pashtun uncluded.




As far as MQM is concerned they are known thugs and hate by everyone, they're always parties like that in every country. And just to show you that they dont get a free hand here is an article

And nobody is under anyone's wing, these things exist in all countries and in all communities in karachi there is a problem in regards to violence between communities but at i assure you they aren't running any extermination camps


As for MQM

Mohajir Qaumi Movement leaders get life sentence

KARACHI: The court has awarded life imprisonment to leaders of Mohajir Qaumi Movement (Haqiqi) Afaq Ahmed and Aamir Khan in a case of murder. The court established in central jail has announced the punishment on Wednesday.

Farooq Siddiqui, the brother of Muttahida Qaumi Movement(MQM) leader Haroon Siddiqui had been killed after being severely tortured in Landhi on June 19,1992. Police had presented challan against Aamir, Dildar and Masroor but they had been acquitted in 1995.

Aamir Khan and Afaq Ahmed were accused of giving shooting orders.

[karachipashtun]

^The statistics you posted were incorrect and I posted my stance on it and I provided logic as compared to big firms.

Afghanistan has not had a census since the 70s you are here saying the Pashtuns are 12 million it was obvious you got it from Wiki or CIA factbook and etc. Those were the same people who were completely wrong about us Pukhtuns of Pak and Afg.

re-read it again.

And Yes MQM is terrorist.



The whole point is, Afghanistan pashtuns enjoy a better life and status compared to us in Pakistan, politically and economically since they own LAND.


Pashtuns in Kandahar do not even WORK.
Pashtuns in Karachi like a member said pick up garbage and sell them to factories which I have seen myself.

Even in Karachi one of the richest people here is from Kandahar who is millionare(USD)

[Talal]

talal has no idea what does elite mean? making more money wont make you an elite, just look up for the meaninig of elite. in tribal region and in afghanistan elite are suffering more than one else. your pakis has tried all of its best to destroy the elite on each side of durand line, by using religion, political power against pashtun elite as did the british and american, to destroy pashtun completely. now a days druglords and criminals are having more money than an elite, the good example is your president zardari, how many pashtun elite have seen servi8ng now afghan government? may be very few. but you pakistan are deprived by elite people you wont even know that.
lets come to your original question, why there are so many threads about pashtun in pashtunkhwa than afghanistan? very simple, pakist is the greater enemy of pashtun than anyone else. dont look far just look what happened in swat? whats happening in tribal region? who targetted so ISI (taliban) in pashtunkhwa? mostly pashtun elite. anyone who raising their voice for pashtun rights are targetted by taliban(ISI). who supported the and trained the terrorists in Afghanistan against Daud khan ? who tarained Masood, hekmatyar, sayaf, rabbani, mullah omar, may more who have brought the misery to afghanistan. I am sure you wouldnot know this, most pakies dont see beyond their nose.

i can only laugh at your ignorance, the parts that i bolded out were the ones that were especially amusing

Talal
You lack knowledge in this subject.

Seems like your just googling your way through right now.

And you cant use google ? The adress is www.google.com

And no the level of intellect in the arguments here and the pakistan bashing thats going on i think even google will be considered as a "prestigious" source.