Taliban army before invasion (real national army of Afghanistan).

[khushal]

I have seen it changed, I have been involved in this murder saga and seen both sides of the coin. People are changing every minute. I am not talking from some high cloud, I am talking from ground in pakhtunkhwa, I know it is not afghansitan, but the pashtoon culture is the same.


If the government cannot protect its citizens than sooner or later the people will arrange and do it themselves, this is one reason for the taliban. And that is why the taliban kill village elders who try to do that not all are thugs. Unfortunately in the absense of modernity, our primitive responses are very ineffective.

I know people change, but your story of the little boy doesnt prove anything, There has been people for thousands of years that have stood for what is right even when their life was at stake. You have proved my point then anything else. This is another reason that people are taking up arms to change things for the better. You beleive that a US style democracy will work in Afghanistan, it hasnt even worked in Pakistan.

[Darweshkhel]

There is a revivle and awakening of Islam, I have been to Kabul and other areas and I have seen it with my own eyes. Ordinary people hate the corrupt government and the crusaders and want to liberate their country and bring safety, security and justice back and at least the taliban government where taking care of those important things.

what are you talking about I been to Kabul last week and everyone is glad that Taliban rule is over. Everybody sees them as Pakis or Paki puppets people say "Pakis have ruled us until 2001". People fear and hate the Taliban. They were claiming that Taliban invited a lot of Pakis and Arabs into their places where they were beating and stoning women.

I also been to Jalalabad and Mazar-Sharif where people remember Taliban as the most cruel and bad people. They were breaking into peoples houses at night searching for TVs and other multimedia, beating people for no reason, taking young boys as recruits into army. They are dont even considered real Muslims because a Muslim man "can not do so many cruel and horrible things", as they say. People even claim they have seen them watching adult movies.

DONT YOU EVER THINK WE ALREADY FORGOT!

People open shops, buy cars, make business, travel around the world and read books. And they are still devoted Muslims so please so your madrassa-philosophy with this Khalifa-stuff.
A lot of people here are already grown ass men you cant brainwash them.

If arabs want a Khalifa, let them start in Arabistan first. Unfortunately they dont want it King Saud rather wants to drop a party, drink some whisky and invite some girls.

But we dont want some dirty black basstuds breaking into our houses and beating our women REMEMBER THAT!

[Darweshkhel]

No man, that is what is inculcated in to you. They cannot do that, seriously. I guarantee you, you will be part of any outcome not kufars. You are just paranoid. Relax. Na'aoozubilah kufar kho khudai na da che har tsa wooghwari aw hagha ba kawi. You think too simple. I don't think they really gives a shyt about establishing a democracy for you there and etc. etc. etc.

Of course they have interests, just put your head in to work and then you wont have a problem and it will be a win win.

The revival blah blah blah my aaaaas!

haha you know that I love you dont you

[AnGaaR]

What do you mean you people will never learn? Be more specific.

They will never learn from their mistakes
they will keep fighting calling eachother tajik,pashtun and hazara
thats what i meant

angaar lol
u want to leave islam when we talk about country or what ?

Islam is our din.. we cant leave our din
there was islam during daud khan,najib,taraki,afizulah amin and others too.. A real muslim practices islam even if he/she is living in Isreal

we want a government where pashtun,hazara,uzbek and pashayei will be respected in the same way.. where everyone should have their rights.

Dasai kho na kaigei chei over 10 millions non pashtoons mra ko, Is it possible?

They are muslims too.. they are Afghan citizens too..
we should learn from the west where they even give citizenship to muslims whom they hate the most. Once you are a citizen,your rights are equal to the rights of a white original Indian american

[Baygham]

I know people change, but your story of the little boy doesnt prove anything, There has been people for thousands of years that have stood for what is right even when their life was at stake. You have proved my point then anything else. This is another reason that people are taking up arms to change things for the better. You beleive that a US style democracy will work in Afghanistan, it hasnt even worked in Pakistan.

I did not say it will work, I said it is better than taliban. That I say about US occupation as well. We pashtoons are way too primitive for a US style constitution and democracy, dream on, may be in a 100 years.

What my point was that dont tolerate crap because allah, mullah, or the village idiots say so. Resist at what ever level you can. If the idiots outnumber the sane by 100 to 1, so what make use of your Ghairath, anna, zameer, and not just when your odds are 100 to 1 in your favour, than they dont mean anything. Than "zor ba dhi peghoor shi, chi amal warsara mal na shee" ghani said it long time ago.

Peghore warkoloo la khoo tool thiar dhi, aamal ki kamzoori yoo.

[khushal]

I did not say it will work, I said it is better than taliban. That I say about US occupation as well. We pashtoons are way too primitive for a US style constitution and democracy, dream on, may be in a 100 years.

What my point was that dont tolerate crap because allah, mullah, or the village idiots say so. Resist at what ever level you can. If the idiots outnumber the sane by 100 to 1, so what make use of your Ghairath, anna, zameer, and not just when your odds are 100 to 1 in your favour, than they dont mean anything. Than "zor ba dhi peghoor shi, chi amal warsara mal na shee" ghani said it long time ago.

Peghore warkoloo la khoo tool thiar dhi, aamal ki kamzoori yoo.

Baygham,
If its not going to work than why waste time trying it. Its not about being primitive or about democracy. You are talking like those communist that went to the villages and were forcing the women to take off their veils, you want to force people into your way of thinking, that doesnt work, it has been tied and everytime it has failed. All societies changes naturally and gradually through trade and exchange of information. You want to force change on people, they lash back.

[Baygham]

Baygham,
If its not going to work than why waste time trying it. Its not about being primitive or about democracy. You are talking like those communist that went to the villages and were forcing the women to take off their veils, you want to force people into your way of thinking, that doesnt work, it has been tied and everytime it has failed. All societies changes naturally and gradually through trade and exchange of information. You want to force change on people, they lash back.

khyaal saab, I am not trying to change anybody, I will never take the veil of a women, I am not going to peoples houses, the taliban do that, I want the sanctity of my home intact. I could care less if they cook their food with cow dung or butane gas. But those that want to change should not be killed, and if they are, than it is a war, and in that war, the enemy is not USA but primitive mentallity. The USA has not come to my house and measured my beard. They have their own agendas and it does not effect me, rather a better state for me as I can live a little more rationally than under taliban or paki rule.

Natural evolution works when you live, when the taliban kill you natural evolution stops. I dont want it stopped for myself, thats it.

Finally , under the reality of USA occupation, american aspirations are OK by me as they are less toxic than taliban. Is that ideal no, but hey we are strugling for survival, beggers cant be choosers.

[khushal]

khyaal saab, I am not trying to change anybody, I will never take the veil of a women, I am not going to peoples houses, the taliban do that, I want the sanctity of my home intact. I could care less if they cook their food with cow dung or butane gas. But those that want to change should not be killed, and if they are, than it is a war, and in that war, the enemy is not USA but primitive mentallity. The USA has not come to my house and measured my beard. They have their own agendas and it does not effect me, rather a better state for me as I can live a little more rationally than under taliban or paki rule.

Natural evolution works when you live, when the taliban kill you natural evolution stops. I dont want it stopped for myself, thats it.

Finally , under the reality of USA occupation, american aspirations are OK by me as they are less toxic than taliban. Is that ideal no, but hey we are strugling for survival, beggers cant be choosers.

Baygham saab,
How can you say that American policies are better, They are the ones that created this mess in the first place. They tricked the russians into invading and then supplying the majahadeen with unlimited supply of weapons and money and also they are the ones that were printing wahabi pamphlets with the purpose to extremenize the population in the madrassas so they can have their revenge against the russians for their viatnam. If they trully cared they would have built some nice schools in the refugee camps like they did for Korea. And when the afghans served their purpose they didnt care what happened. You say that the american way is better, if it wasnt for their way we would not be in this mess.

[Baygham]

Baygham saab,
How can you say that American policies are better, They are the ones that created this mess in the first place. They tricked the russians into invading and then supplying the majahadeen with unlimited supply of weapons and money and also they are the ones that were printing wahabi pamphlets with the purpose to extremenize the population in the madrassas so they can have their revenge against the russians for their viatnam. If they trully cared they would have built some nice schools in the refugee camps like they did for Korea. And when the afghans served their purpose they didnt care what happened. You say that the american way is better, if it wasnt for their way we would not be in this mess.

we would still be in mess, may be under punjabi rule, or chinese rule, the russians would have never left, the iranians may have taken part of afghanistan, we are nothing compared to any of these power, not to mention india-pakistan playing their dirty game in afghansitan rather than kashmir.

America in a way insulates agaisnt all of the above. Compared to chinese, russian, indian, iranian and pakistani rule I prefer american. Hell I prefer it compared to durbari rule in kabul, or taliban rule with outside players.

If afghanistan was a developed nation, with an army that could stand up against any of the above than it would be another matter. But afghansitan and paki pashtoons cannot provide food to its citizens let alone fight these powers.

So under the circumstances, american occupation gives us a tremendous oppurtunity, because with china,, see what they do to their own uirghers, with pakistan you dont need to be remined, iran rule over sunis, forget about it, can you honestly think that russians were more fair than americans.

Waiting for ideal conditions is an excuse, we should use the current situation to our advantage, we have a tremendous oppurtunity to progress, america cannot stay for ever, they have to go, why not use them to advance. why only stay attached to destruction.

[Baygham]

Whether you consider them fools for taking badal(an important part of Pashtunwali)is your own opinion but all I shared with you is a fact that local Pashtuns have sided with the Taliban to take revenge against the foreigners.


Paki Talib and Afghan Talib aren't the same.


A rural Pashtun doesn't want to hear this, his Mom died and all he wants to do is killing anyone who isn't a Pashtun on sight. That is the ground reality, your fictional realities based on the internet might appear different but its an open secret that the locals currently support the movement and Nato is on the verge of defeat.

Just because the locals support them in war does not mean they support the ideologies Taliban will bring. The main goal right now and the reason the Taliban is successful is because they have proof for NATO atrocities(Civilian deaths)and they ask for support, what happens next? people end up siding with them.

pashtoons have sided with the sikhs against other pashtoons as well. A villager does not base his preferance on global knowledge with its geopolitical implications. He sees the pros and cons of his microscopic world and twists this way or that. those that have seen a little more should not so easily sway like them......................................

Well guys this is it, I have wasted so much time here lately that my bussiness is suffering. Have to go back to my cave,

I was not here to impress someone, or forward an agenda. I came for I was home sick and needed the putrid smell of garbage in the streets, the immense depth of despair and illogical conclusions that we all call our culture. I had forgotten feeling miserable and needed a reminder course. Well my brain has recalibrated, thanks for that.

When I first came on these forums in 2003, I could not find a single person who could say no to the word Islam, now mashaallah, I find many, that is more than I could ever wish for.

Will see you guys a little less frequently from now on, till I get homesick again.

Deera manana to all.

[khushal]

we would still be in mess, may be under punjabi rule, or chinese rule, the russians would have never left, the iranians may have taken part of afghanistan, we are nothing compared to any of these power, not to mention india-pakistan playing their dirty game in afghansitan rather than kashmir.

America in a way insulates agaisnt all of the above. Compared to chinese, russian, indian, iranian and pakistani rule I prefer american. Hell I prefer it compared to durbari rule in kabul, or taliban rule with outside players.

If afghanistan was a developed nation, with an army that could stand up against any of the above than it would be another matter. But afghansitan and paki pashtoons cannot provide food to its citizens let alone fight these powers.

So under the circumstances, american occupation gives us a tremendous oppurtunity, because with china,, see what they do to their own uirghers, with pakistan you dont need to be remined, iran rule over sunis, forget about it, can you honestly think that russians were more fair than americans.

Waiting for ideal conditions is an excuse, we should use the current situation to our advantage, we have a tremendous oppurtunity to progress, america cannot stay for ever, they have to go, why not use them to advance. why only stay attached to destruction.

Bayghama,
Like I said before you are living in a fantasy world. You are not listening. What you are saying is not politically possible. You are talking like a nut that wants to bring communism to america, that would not be politically possible.

[Fahd]

They will never learn from their mistakes
they will keep fighting calling eachother tajik,pashtun and hazara
thats what i meant



Islam is our din.. we cant leave our din
there was islam during daud khan,najib,taraki,afizulah amin and others too.. A real muslim practices islam even if he/she is living in Isreal

we want a government where pashtun,hazara,uzbek and pashayei will be respected in the same way.. where everyone should have their rights.

Dasai kho na kaigei chei over 10 millions non pashtoons mra ko, Is it possible?

They are muslims too.. they are Afghan citizens too..
we should learn from the west where they even give citizenship to muslims whom they hate the most. Once you are a citizen,your rights are equal to the rights of a white original Indian american

daud khan ,najib
those who make afg like it's now
those mother f did alot of bad thing's
u even don't know which afg ppl u should be proud of them
i will just say 1 word it's
media world
if u understand it u will be in the right side