Pakistan and Afghanistan must become one country

[Azmal]

I hope my nationalistic attitude did'nt hurt you. Yea i learnt in Pakistani schools and enjoyed every those facilities which my brothers from other ethnicities enjoyed or even more than them. I am not in a sense of deception nor i do understand your idea of poison. And you just pick an incident to justify the break of country then what would you say about our intertribe brutalities? there is no state type terrorism on Pakhtoon. Its a game played by many evil forces. In this mess even a son of Core Commander can caught and murdered then you call it terrorism on Pakhtoons. There is no perfection i know, but i am still optimistic about my country.

If only there was a nation called Pakistan then by all means you would have the due rights to call yourself paki-nationalist. A fake nation “constructed” by the imperial masters under a fake ideology (two-nation theory) living in a fake federation, which could not survive one War (1971)…and yet there are paki nationalist? Just wonder what would your father would have called himself before 1947 when British created the artificial state Pakistan? Hindustani Nationalist?

My dear, one thing you must remember, that is evolved identities last longer than constructed and artificial identities like Pakistaniyath. Just as the two Punjabis across Wahga would forever be one people so also would be Pashton tied by Pashtonwali ( a common code of honor), Pashto ( a robust and live language), and real (not fake like Iqbal and Jannah) heroes (like Great Ahmad Shah Baba and Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan) despite the conspiracies of their enemies.
Just remember we Afghans have an immense will-power and we have survived crisis of far greater severity in history than posed by your Punjabi, which owes its fortuitous rise to subservience to white masters.

[Azmal]

Iranic ao Indic kho baelaa khabaraa daa kho daa haqeeqath dae che Pashtunkhwa ao Afghanistna yaw zmaka ao yaw hewaadh dae bass agha ihsass ba paeda kaoo. Inshallah yaw ba shee...our interests, identity is joined at the hip.

I agree but i was just playing devil advocate... if only they come out of the Pakistani text books mentality and study and observe some truth… they would know that since history began...we pashtons were living side by side and in one kingdom, nation and state..which always included the Tajiks, Baloch, Uzbak and after Mongol invasion the Hazara...but it seldom included Punjabis...moreover our rational ship with punjabis were always of master(us) and subject(them)..not the other way around as now thanks to punjabis servitude to Angreez they are "successor of British raj."

[Shayesta]

Ur afghanistan is a country of farsibaans, not pashtuns.

Coming from someone in whose country Pukhtoons don't even get Pukhto education?

Leave ur loy afghanistan concept and adopt pashtunistan's struggle.

That's exactly what we did till before Russian war and this is exactly the reason why Pakistani government wants to see us instable.

if u really wanna serve pashtun people. plus this is the concept acceptable to the pashtuns of KPK

Then why don't those people themselves start being a man instead of hiding behind the laps of their 'Pakistaniyat'?

Just ask this point to any person from Peshawar (even if he is an ignorant taxi driver) and ammuse ur sense of hairing from the answer.

Ask the very same question to those Pekhaweris in Jalalabad; Why did they leave the developed and sacred Pak sarzameen for the ravaged Parsibanistan?

I also got that answer, but if i post. may be reported. And i dont wanna break the forum rules

Oh feel free to post his answer but make you think of a brilliant lie to answer first so at least you hit some nerves.

[Shayesta]

^ You have to have political sense for that first.

[ComradePashtun]

You are a very funny guy, Zahir. Nothing else to say.

Aaaarrrrggghhh Yaaak at this thread.

[ComradePashtun]

Hahaha nothing. Forgive me being the ignoramus, so Einstien, if half of Pakistan is inhabited by Pashtuns then what makes your state pathetic?

And and some Paki circles also allege that we come Ibraham and the chosen ones to guard the house of Islam and the ultimate truth which is Pakistan. lol

[ComradePashtun]

Oh, stupid, it is all about money and economy. How did I not know that too? This world is then again ultimately about Pakistan at the end too. tsk tsk.

[ComradePashtun]

Come on, no need for a 13 years old girl kind of tantrum bro. No insults there at all. Where exactly is the insult?

I didn't ask you where you are from so no need to get edgy. Now you can tell us where you are from if you want.

I still want to know how you came up with half of Pakistan being inhabited by Pashtuns? Care to enlighten us. I think this is outrageous. And lets leave the Israelite issue for now, may be yes, may be no.

Again, the question was: if half of Pakistan is inhabited by Pashtuns then what makes their state pathetic?

Akhtar de mubarak sa.

[ComradePashtun]

Now you don't consider it an insult for calling me a fake Pashtun?

I seriously don't mind this coming from you, Zahir.

[ComradePashtun]

Whoever said I liked Pakistan? Your putting words in my mouth. Is this how you have a debate with someone? haha Are you a Pakistani HAHA?

Bless you funny guy. What are you talking about? So you want us to join Pakistan, right?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

This is pretty irrelevant to this particular debate about Pakistan and Afghanistan being one country, but I have to point out that Pashtuns are not, and have never been Iranic. I think it would serve us well both politically and individualistically to recognize that we are from the lost tribes of Israel. Our language has no relation whatsoever to Iranic languages of that region (study it, there is no linguistic similarities between pashto and farsi. Also, our culture is very unique, no other ethnic group lives by the same codes as us.

Now onto the political relativity of why Afghanistan should join with Pakistan. Here it is. Half of Pakistan is inhabited by Pashtuns. This was how the British did it. They used the old game of divide and conquer and hence divided historic Pashtunistan in two with the Durand line. Now Pashtuns stake their claims all the way to Jhelum City in the Punjab (where there is a small Pashtun population). Therefore, it is in our interest to see the two nations unite. Pashtuns can then start becoming more politically active. Pakistan has been ruled by some Pashtuns (Ayub Khan), however, those guys were just as corrupt as the present leaders today.

We need Pakistan so that we can have access to the port city of Karachi. We need that access in order to prop up our trade ties which currently are non-existent. Right now, we do not have the capabilities or resources to have the tribal areas of Pakistan join with us. Our historical claims to Pashtunistan go all they way into the Punjab. So we have a legitimate interest in seeing Afghanistan and Pakistan join.

Lastly, there are more Pashtuns in Pakistan than in Afghanistan. If those guys started becoming political, they could one day be the next ruling class of Pakistan. The good news is that there is an upcoming educated class of Pashtuns in Karachi. This can come in handy when the time is right.

There are also a lot of Pashtuns in the Army, and some famous generals were Pashtuns. This was the same army that fought with India. So our people have had a part to play in Pakistani politics.

Now, I ideally want to see Afghanistan and Bangladesh be in some type of a union. The brainpower of Bangladesh can open up many doors for us. Their schooling system needs to be studied because they are producing a very smart educated class of people. Everything has to start with education. As you all know Bangladesh has extreme historical grievances with Pakistan. We can use this to our advantage. We should be on good terms with India too. We need to first see how Afghanistan can be made secure. I know others may disagree, but I feel that Karzai is playing the cards he has been dealt with well.

We don't need the port of Karachi, as there is the ports in Iran as well as the Gwadar port. So we don't need the port of Karachi per say.
Zahir Farsi is not the end all be all of Iranic languages, Pashto is very much so an Iranian language, and one that is from Scythian and prior to that Avestan. If anything we have no semetic features in our language, all of that theory is based on some old wives tale.

Which parts of Panjab? If you mean mianwali and attock, well Pashtunkhwa is claiming them as well, and we have always considered that pashtun area.

So what if there are more Pashtuns in Pakistan than Afghanistan? There are more muslims in India than Pakistan. It is an irrevelant point, considering that 90 % of these Pashtuns all live in Pashtunkhwa which is right beside Afghanistan. There is no problem to unify these areas since we form, for the most part, a contiguous region.
Pashtuns make 14% of the army, this is not a lot by any stretch of the word, and a few generals were Pashtuns, so what? I mean we are talking about unifying a nation. Pashtuns in Karachi can play a role, but the issue is that those Pashtuns are huge diaspora population and have to secure themselves first. The politics of Karachi can't be used in the greater scheme of things in Pashtunkhwa or Afghansitan. We have to look at them as two seperate issues. The power and political dynamic of Pashtuns in Karachi is different from the heartland areas (Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa).

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Is it worth for me to continue this? Ok, so go out and get a map of Pakistan (with a legend- so you can see the demographics). You can go to your local bookstore, and buy a map. Go and look at the map of Pakistan. Look at the geography and demographics. You will see that the NWFP is half of Pakistan. Did you know that the NWFP is inhabited by Pashtuns???

Well, now you know bro!!!! lol So there, half of Pakistan is inhabited by Pashtuns. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that. Go and get the map, you can also google it, and then tell me what you think!!!

The Pashtun areas within Pakistan are clearly defined and one knows where they start and end. Hence why PKMAP and other such parties advocate a joint Pashtunkhwa, this is the first step. We don't need to add on Panjab and Sindh when we just need to unify Pashtunkwha with Afghanistan.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

But the Iranians are Shiites, and do not like dealing with Afghanistan because it is a Sunni Muslim country. Last time I looked into Afghanistan-Iran relations, it was just formalities, nothing too concrete, and it is my guess that it will stay like that for a while. Pakistan dips their hands into our affairs, but Iran only cares to make relations with the Shiite population of Afghanistan which is not Pashtun (Im sure you are all aware of that).

Now about our features, I kind of researched that too, but we can leave that for another time. I can sense that there is a lot of sensitivity about the Israelite issue so I won't bring it up. For me, I will never accept us being Iranic. Thats just the way I am.

Now, please keep in mind that all these discussion or for us to figure out how to move Afghanistan forward, so no hard feelings please!!!

That is true, but I gave Iran as a counter example. Now whether you can't or wont accept us as Iranic is quite frankly not an issue. It is a fact and it only makes sense to accept facts. It is an iranian language and we primarily descent from Iranic tribes. It is what it is.

The discussion is to have Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa to move forward together....and a lot of see it in our unity...however not in the form of Pak-afghanistan confederation.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Ok, fine. Please tell me then how you think Afghanistan can make trade connections with other countries? Also, now that I have addressed the Iran port cities, please tell me what other port cities we can use besides Karachi? If we had our very own port city, I would not care to have relations or to unify with Pakistan because then we could build trade relations independently, and through that build better ties with other countries.

BTW, can you guys make a political chatroom. Your a moderator right? Make a politcal chatroom. Its easier to trade opinions.

Zahir Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa are at the centre of central Asia and South Asia...this alone gives them a strategic trade route. Goods that flow from central asia have to pass Afghanistan in order to reach the South Asian market (which is a billion plus people). Their trade relations with the rest of the region are self-explanatory.

Gwadar (I mentioned it in my first post)..It is a warm water port right south of Pashtunkhwa and Afghanistan. The baloch have no real ally in the region bar us, and we can use that.

P.S. the chat idea was mentioned in a topic in hujra and most didn't want it. You can use the search tool to see the topic for yourself.

[ComradePashtun]

Jasmina and Guys,

My two penny worth. It makes perfect sense for Paki Pathans to advocate us becoming Pakis like them. It is only logical from their point of view. At the end of the day they will be the ones to extract futher benifits and advantages from Panjab like they have been and will further their role as we lack the same Pakistani orientations to the harmony and advance of Panjab and Karachi. These Pathans will be their point men and hence looking out for their interests in the Pashtun regions and beyond. And as far as they are concerned Afghanistan doesn't offer any immediate economic benifits at present.

Our friend Zahir alleges that it will be rather economically beneficial if we were to join and become part of a federal Pakistan. It would be reviting how he would explain that. One was to do with Karachi port? But how?

The reason exactly which makes me think that I am more than 100% right that he is a Pakistani (which he refuses) is that he cannot think as Afghan if that is what he thinks we would believe. Ajeeba khabara, lets become a united nation but not a nation state? Why not? It reminds of another of our Pathan friend Luffy's (Loopy) signature which it says: 'Afghans, if you think we are sold out then why don't you buy us'. We cannot buy you because Panjab is the higher bidder at this pathetic juncture.

Our full economic potential is not realised has everything to do with the security and stability - nothing more to make us one of the potentially prosperous country of the region. As BLS has mentioned our strategic location as the land-bridge gives a uique advantage and source diverse economic derivatves - than to be part a Panjab regulated territory like our Pathan friends. Some of these Pathan friends think that Pakistan for us is what it is for them a source of: Daal, Atta (wheat/Woorra) and Cheeni (Sugar/khazja/Boora) and without it we wont survive. God willing, if we achieve relative stability and diversify our trade and economy through our five other neighbours we can achieve the autarky we need not to rely on Pakistan that to Pakistan rely on trading with us. This is just hypothising. I absolutely encourage economic integration with Pakistan it is in both country's interest.

As for Karachi port we don't need to be part of the country to take advantage from it? We are already using it, and Chah-bar port in Iran will give us more leverage.

We have the opposite strategic and geo-political outlook politically and more specifically econmically than Pakistan and hence the policies that Pakistan is pursuing will further leave our econmic potential stagnant, which has alot to do with Pashtunkhwa's economy. We in Afghanistan rather only embrace economic liberalisation to reach the metric for becoming the cross economic hub and improving our economy in quickist way possible and then subsequently redifine our policies in light of encouraging indigenous industrialisation etc.

Why would I want my macro economic: fiscal and monetary policies be controlled by Pakistan? Why would I want trade policies to be controlled by Pakistan when I can have them independant? Why would let foreign investment, industry poicies structured by Pakistan with Panjab and Karachi as its core? Only Pakistan will benifit for gaining the access it need to CASRs and further the potential of its industries through seeking external markets.

And lets not even go in to the natural resources which we are endowed with, Alhamdulilah. Shame that some people cannot think beyond their own personal interests as being part of the Pakistani establishment but collectively for its nation, Afghanistan would be too much to ask for but Pashtunkhwa.