Who do you have more in common with?

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Wrayun,



Mirwais Hotak, Sher Shah Suri, Ahmed Shah Abdali, Khushal Khan Khattak, Amir Abdr Rehman, Fakir-i-ipi, Akbar Khan, Baacha Khan are a huge part of who I am. They are my identity. I take pride in their achievements and I follow their philosophy.

If it wasn't for these people, we wouldn't be what we are today. We would be a much lesser nation. Thanks to them, wherever we go, we can hold are heads up high and proudly proclaim that we are Pashtun, the sons and daughters of Khushal Khan, Ahmed Shah, Bachaa Khan and Sher Shah Suri!

For every Pashtun, these men, among others, are just as though they are family. This girl I know was almost brought to tears when this guy kept saying the wrong sort of stuff about Bachaa Khan.

Good man, you made your forefathers proud.

I did not know that, among your other skills, you could also communicate with the dead.

lol sorry!


When I think of Thomas Jefferson, I think: "I had rather be shut up in a very modest cottage with my books, my family and a few old friends, dining on simple bacon, and letting the world roll on as it liked, than to occupy the most splendid post, which any human power can give."

And: "Bigotry is the disease of ignorance, of morbid minds; enthusiasm of the free and buoyant. Education & free discussion are the antidotes of both."

And: "He who steadily observes the moral precepts in which all religions concur, will never be questioned at the gates of heaven as to the dogmas in which they all differ."

(He is also quoted in my signature).

Why would anyone disagree with this man? Why would I say that I love Khushal Khan Khattak for fighting for the rights of Pashtuns but I don't love Thomas Jefferson for fighting for the rights of another people?

Marcus Aurelius is one of those great wise-men from history. I personally have a copy of Meditations and everyone should go through it at least once in their lives.

"he (Marcus Aurelius) gave proof of his learning not by mere words or knowledge of philosophical doctrines but by his blameless character and temperate way of life."

Why would anyone not agree with this man? Why would I have to say that I love Bachaa Khan but not Marcus Aurelius?


Karl Marx, whether you agree with his solutions for mankind or not, spent his entire life for the service of the poorest and most exploited of society. He went broke and had to be bailed out by Engels. He was exiled from his homeland. Fine, you don't like Communism but it cannot be denied that he spent his life for the sake of the most destitute and vulnerable. He was not interested in becoming a king or anything like that.

[Wrayun]

Levanaye Zalmaye,

Mirwais Hotak, Sher Shah Suri, Ahmed Shah Abdali, Khushal Khan Khattak, Amir Abdr Rehman, Fakir-i-ipi, Akbar Khan, Baacha Khan are a huge part of who I am. If it wasn't for these people, we wouldn't be what we are today. We would be a much lesser nation. Thanks to them, wherever we go, we can hold are heads up high and proudly proclaim that we are Pashtun, the sons and daughters of Khushal Khan, Ahmed Shah, Bachaa Khan and Sher Shah Suri!

For every Pashtun, these men, among others, are just as though they are family.

Do you realize the price paid to grant you that esteem? They suffered from something called the Islamic AIDS. During the course of their suffering, they also help spread the infectious disease in the region. Sometimes requiring non-con forced entry. Many people, including Kafiristanis, Hazarajats, Punjabis, Hindus and others would frown upon your high regards for these men (as a secularist, humanist, atheist that is).

When I think of Thomas Jefferson, I think: "I had rather be shut up in a very modest cottage with my books, my family and a few old friends, dining on simple bacon, and letting the world roll on as it liked, than to occupy the most splendid post, which any human power can give."

And: "Bigotry is the disease of ignorance, of morbid minds; enthusiasm of the free and buoyant. Education & free discussion are the antidotes of both."

And: "He who steadily observes the moral precepts in which all religions concur, will never be questioned at the gates of heaven as to the dogmas in which they all differ."

(He is also quoted in my signature).

Why would anyone disagree with this man? Why would I say that I love Khushal Khan Khattak for fighting for the rights of Pashtuns but I don't love Thomas Jefferson for fighting for the rights of another people?

Because he didn't fight for your or my rights. The man owned hundreds of slaves, most he never paid. From some he bore illegitimate children.

Anyways this is going to go off topic so before we get the poll settled I'll leave this part of the discussion here.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Wrayun,


Yes, I know they were all Muslim and I have been frowned upon by many non-Pashtuns for defending them so ardently. They don't even dare to speak ill of them in front of me anymore.

As for owning slaves, you know as well as anybody else that we can't judge the personalities of the past with the standards and values of today. The Islamophobes in the Netherlands and the United States do exactly that and try to vilify modern Muslims, who are overwhelmingly peaceful. Abraham Lincoln is accredited with ending slavery and is hailed as a man ahead of his time but this is also what he said:

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality..."


Of course what Khushal Khan did impacts me more directly. However, no one can say that the principles laid down by the founders of the United States don't have considerable similarities with the principles of Islam, which were followed by our famous ancestors.


(a) All men are equal in terms of basic human dignity and basic obligations and responsibilities, without any discrimination on the basis of race, colour, language, belief, sex, religion, political affiliation, social status or other considerations. The true religion is the guarantee for enhancing such dignity along the path to human integrity.

(b) We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

[erlangner]

Wrayun did you start this thread to insult the pashtun elders and heroes?
What do you mean? All Pashtuns are agreed that Khushal Khan Khattak gathered all pashtuns and he wanted the independent Pashutn country. MY dear it was due to these two, Pir Rokhan and Khoshal on which base Mirwais Khan and Ahmad Shah built Afghanistan. In which world you are living? You started poll, then let the people select what they want, and if you want to infuence the way you are doing, I will surely ask administrator to kick out of the forum.
You must first think, what is the name of the forum, Pashtun forum (PF) and all the heroes mentioned at the group one are the heroes of pashtuns.

[amna.]

I would go for group 1 because Ahmad Shah is in group 1. Ahmad Shah formed the largest Pashtun empire of its time and united all Pashtun tribes.

[Samin]

They suffered from something called the Islamic AIDS. During the course of their suffering, they also help spread the infectious disease in the region..

"Islamic AIDS? Infectious disease?" You are suffering from a sick mentality.

[Wrayun]

Wrayun did you start this thread to insult the pashtun elders and heroes?

No.

What do you mean?

You won't understand since you haven't gone through my other topics.

All Pashtuns are agreed that Khushal Khan Khattak gathered all pashtuns and he wanted the independent Pashutn country. MY dear it was due to these two, Pir Rokhan and Khoshal on which base Mirwais Khan and Ahmad Shah built Afghanistan. In which world you are living?

Good stuff.

In which world you are living?

Same one as you.

You started poll, then let the people select what they want, and if you want to infuence the way you are doing, I will surely ask administrator to kick out of the forum. You must first think, what is the name of the forum, Pashtun forum (PF) and all the heroes mentioned at the group one are the heroes of pashtuns.

hmmmm...... okay.

[Wrayun]

Now, if you are not Pukhtoon or don't consider yourself to be one, please do not participate in the following. (if you voted)

Those of you who voted for group 2 instead of group 1, answer the following if you consider yourselves Pukhtoon or even better, Pukhtoon nationalists:

What do you make of these men in group 1 and their beliefs since you didn't vote for them?

[Wrayun]

Yes, I know they were all Muslim and I have been frowned upon by many non-Pashtuns for defending them so ardently. They don't even dare to speak ill of them in front of me anymore.

Why would you defend them if you don't agree with their beliefs? I am assuming of course. I mean, how can any atheist, secular, free thinker, illuminated individual defend men like Mirwais and Ahmed Shah? They were Islamists, don't you agree?

[Roshina]

Both in equal measure but for entirely different reasons.