Karzai sets up council for peace talks with Taliban

[Talal]

The link you have provided is the Corruption Perception Index and not the Global Corruption Index. According to the list if Iran is at 168 and Pakistan at 139 which seems absurd.

I've downloaded the full text of the global index but it is a bit complicated to interpret for comparison purposes. In that list afghanistan is placed in middle east category while Pakistan among the asian facific countries.

How so is it absurd ? Or is that just your own opinion ?

And you are the one who used TI's CPI for comparison and that too from a source that fabricated the actual rankings of the CPI.

Furthermore, CPI is the standard for gauging the level of corruption 'globally'

You used rankings yourself and those were false and inaccurate rankings from an inaccurate source. If you have a 2010 CPI ranking where Afghanistan ranks at 118 I'd be more than happy to take a look..till then I believe the argument is finished

[khyaal]

How was it inaccurate? The Corruption Perception Index can easily be manipulated because it depends on reporting the center about giving bribes.The real index is here in the full report,

http://www.transparency.org/policy_r...dices/gcb/2009

Now interpret it here.

[khyaal]

Go again to the link below and click the "source". You will see the source is exactly Transparency International. BTW, the website nationmaster didn't publish it from its own sources, its just an ordinary website.


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/go...ent-corruption

[Talal]

How was it inaccurate? The Corruption Perception Index can easily be manipulated because it depends on reporting the center about giving bribes.The real index is here in the full report,

http://www.transparency.org/policy_r...dices/gcb/2009



Now interpret it here.

And what exactly is it in this link that you wish me to see that might support your earlier claims

Go again to the link below and click the "source". You will see the source is exactly Transparency International. BTW, the website nationmaster didn't publish it from its own sources, its just an ordinary website.


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/go...ent-corruption

That's what I am saying, it's an ordinary website that fabricated it's own rankings and then falsely linked it to transparency international because clearly nothing in TI's findings even vaguely supports the rankings given in the nationmaster web that you used as a source for your argument

[khyaal]

And what exactly is it in this link that you wish me to see that might support your earlier claims



That's what I am saying, it's an ordinary website that fabricated it's own rankings and then falsely linked it to transparency international because clearly nothing in TI's findings even vaguely supports the rankings given in the nationmaster web that you used as a source for your argument

LOL. This is ridiculous and a typical Paki rigidity. I don't understand why a website will fabricate figures of the Transparency International and put false rankings without any fear of legal action against it?
Another conspiracy against Pakistan?

Another thing, there are over 143 comments posted just about the topic of corruption in countries like Pakistan etc. on the nationmaster website.

[Talal]

LOL. This is ridiculous and a typical Paki rigidity. I don't understand why a website will fabricate figures of the Transparency International and put false rankings without any fear of legal action against it?
Another conspiracy against Pakistan?

Another thing, there are over 143 comments posted just about the topic of corruption in countries like Pakistan etc. on the nationmaster website.

Your beating around the bush bro, I posted the official TI survey and compared it to the fake one you posted from a web that holds no credibility whatsoever especially if it's misquoting the source ..facts might be bitter but I see no reason why you have to resort to racial slurs

[khyaal]

You posted older survey of the year 2009 and that too of the corruption perception index which is different from the global corruption barometer. It is september 2010 now. I posted the 2010 survey sourced from Transparency International but you claimed that the website fabricted it and put its own ranking on the site which is ridiculous looking at the huge number of comments about the report on the same website.

[Talal]

You posted older survey of the year 2009 and that too of the corruption perception index which is different from the global corruption barometer. It is september 2010 now. I posted the 2010 survey sourced from Transparency International but you claimed that the website fabricted it and put its own ranking on the site which is ridiculous looking at the huge number of comments about the report on the same website.

Ok buddy for the last time there "is" no 2010 survey..I hope you can understand that simple fact, and if your going by the number of comments I'd suggest looking at the trash on YouTube..people comment wayyyy more there.

Either way this "Paki" proved his point and would like to move on with his life

[ComradePashtun]

And what exactly did I say that seems contradictory to you and which point are you confused about

To get an idea of what I'm talking about here is how Karzai is stopping corruption

Karzai 'fired' anti-corruption lawyer after top official stung

Full story



And what exactly is Karzai's agenda for these peace talks..I've been hearing peace talks peace talks for a whole year now..what are these peace talks ? What his agenda ? I doubt even he knows that

Every now and then he makes an anti US statement and establishes another council for peace talks to divert attention from whats really going down in the backyard.

While corruption is a genuine concern and has to be dealt with, it is not as pressing as you think it is. There appears to be difference between Karzai and U.S. (leave Pakistan out for a moment) over how to deal with Taliban. He doesn't necessearily have to think along foreigners' line! He is placing himself ahead of any prospective settlement with Taliban if there happens to be one. He is Afghan - and there is a degree of bonding with the Talibs and others who are fighting foreigners and his government nevertheless. In fact we all do. He has been on the tight robe from day one, he is a politician and has to do what is good for his country. I think ultimately, since the war is also blurring him in many way, he doesn't want to be the ginny pig and is pursuing much in terms of dealing with Taliban independently and this appears to the friction line and the corruption issue might also be used to some extend to tighten muzzle around him.

As I said, much will also hinge on regional development and what happens in Pakistan too. Pacifying Pakistan is the crucial part of American policy regionally. If I was you I wouln't so worry about Karzai. Corruption issue has a differnt tract of the Afghan governance issue too and may not have much relation with the war in the Af-Pak arena as you stretch your imagination to think it would. While you may think otherwise, Karzai might be more patient than you think. Either way, he wont have to loose the most.

[ComradePashtun]

Ok buddy for the last time there "is" no 2010 survey..I hope you can understand that simple fact, and if your going by the number of comments I'd suggest looking at the trash on YouTube..people comment wayyyy more there.

Either way this "Paki" proved his point and would like to move on with his life

Man, Dalal, Pakistan will tick almost all boxes, more than Afghanistan on any corruption index. There is nothing to defend. You ambassador was almost stunned on every question on BBC hard-talk the other night. You should watch it. There is no competition in that quarter when you have a Mr 10% there right at the top.

[ComradePashtun]

Hmmm.. Shlombay, it was aired only last night. I will look for it if I can find it. Go to BBC site it might be there.

[ComradePashtun]

This is following to my last reply to Talal.


Barack Obama in about turn on Afghanistan corruption

Barack Obama's advisers are pushing for a softly, softly approach to tackling government corruption in Afghanistan just days after the American president promised to keep up pressure on Hamid Karzai to rein in widespread graft.


The move will be seen as an about-turn on a crucial plank of policy as the President tries to shore up a weak Afghan government before the withdrawal of American troops.


Tackling corruption has become key to building a stable Afghanistan – and choking off funds for insurgents – but has so far met with only limited success

Now Mr Obama's advisers say that high-profile prosecutions of government officers should be dropped in favour of face-saving compromises negotiated in private in order to heal a growing rift with President Karzai.

"The current approach is not tenable," an administration official told The Washington Post on condition of anonymity. "What will we get out of it?
We'll arrest a few mid-level Afghans, but we'll lose our ability to operate there and achieve our principal goals."

Already strained relations between Mr Karzai and the US soured further when one of his aides was arrested in July for allegedly taking bribes to impede an investigation into a money transfer scheme said to have channelled about $3 billion (£2 billion) out of the country. The arrest was made by an Afghan unit trained and supported by the FBI and other American agencies.

Mr Karzai ordered his official's release and has asked for new rules to limit the role of foreign agencies in graft investigations.

Mariam Abou Zahab, of the Centre for International Studies and Research, said the episode showed how the US simply did not understand Afghan sensibilities and a culture where a quiet, private word is the key to getting things done.

"Saying things like this in public just doesn't work in Afghan society," she said. "Karzai reacted just like an Afghan." The possible change in strategy contrasts with Obama's public remarks on Friday, when he said tackling corruption was crucial to building a stable government.

"And that means making sure that the tradition of corruption in the government is reduced," he said. "And we're going to keep on putting pressure on him on that front." Corruption has already emerged as an obstacle to free and fair parliamentary elections on Saturday.

Independent observers say election officials have been offered as much as $500,000 (£380,000) to falsify returns by supporters of President Karzai.
At the same time, General David Petraeus has issued new guidelines for Nato contracts in Afghanistan to help root out corruption and prevent cash flowing to insurgents.

The unclassified document urges commanders to set up systems and databases to ensure that contractors are properly vetted.

[ComradePashtun]

It wasn't on the site. You have to tell us about these kind of program. I would like to blame everything on you.

Normally you are able to watch it and is accessible online after a few days. On the other hand I would blame you for not spending more time watching tele. May it is not too much of a habit for you journalists.