Afghanistan call for sanctions against Pakistan.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Why you people contradict yourselves everytime my dear wror... singing of Pakistan betrayal and then considering it US step son... how come?

That isn't betrayal. I don't think you get what I am saying. Pakistan is a british created state and has been propped by them (particularly US though, hence why I say maeranae plaar). In my opinion Pakistan's policy has been antagonistic towards Pashtuns, to curb India they have played a negative role in Pashtun areas (whether east or west of the durand line). We see the outcome of this policy clearly. Now I know many try to justify their sins by using the RAW MOSSAD card, but my friend the cat is out of the bag. Its policy, its army, state, etc have caused more damage than even their british predecessors. Now granted Pashtuns were foolish to be played these past 30 years...I think it is time to consider other options...they are no more our friends than the peerangyaan before them.

Bewafaee kho agha tha waee che kala wafaa wo...deltha da bewafaee khabarae na kao.

[Masterio92]

That isn't betrayal. I don't think you get what I am saying. Pakistan is a british created state and has been propped by them (particularly US though, hence why I say maeranae plaar). In my opinion Pakistan's policy has been antagonistic towards Pashtuns, to curb India they have played a negative role in Pashtun areas (whether east or west of the durand line). We see the outcome of this policy clearly. Now I know many try to justify their sins by using the RAW MOSSAD card, but my friend the cat is out of the bag. Its policy, its army, state, etc have caused more damage than even their british predecessors. Now granted Pashtuns were foolish to be played these past 30 years...I think it is time to consider other options...they are no more our friends than the peerangyaan before them.

Bewafaee kho agha tha waee che kala wafaa wo...deltha da bewafaee khabarae na kao.

If you make history by your own and make responsible Pakistan for occupation of Afghanistan by USSR and US then how would i consider the state policy of Pakistan against Pakhtoons.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

If you make history by your own and make responsible Pakistan for occupation of Afghanistan by USSR and US then how would i consider the state policy of Pakistan against Pakhtoons.

Peera if you actually read up on the Soviet war, you would not have said this. I suggest you do a brief search on this topic on this forum. We have discussed it to death. In actuality the Americans and Saudi via Pakistan funded the mujahideen groups months before the Saur revolution and any soviet had stepped foot into Afghanistan.

Even if I consider your line of logic, my point still stands. If we were used in a policy before, and clearly it wasn't in our benefit, then why should we go and destroy ourselves again? Like I said they have their policies and interests and a brief reading in to it gives us an idea that ours are not in line with theres.

[r3alist]

Realist you don't have to believe anything. However, lucky for us, that doesn't mean its false. Go to any villages in Pashtunkhwa or Afghanistan, and I can guarantee you, you will hear such cases, if not know someone directly. This has been going on since the 1990s.

The fault of Pashtuns were was that they fought someone else's war for thirty years...this doesn't meant that they should go hand in hand and hug pakistan (or for that matter any of the states around it). A state with such a policy that still has no signs of changing can't be supported nor put forward. Pashtuns/Afghans should start thinking in other terms, and certainly outside the context of GHQ.

i am not sure how much credence can be given to hearsay and anecdotal stories, especially from people who are not necessarily in the best position to discern how true it is what they hear, rumours can spread

however i am inclined to agree with you that it probably did go on, but i am hesitant to accept as truth something which is far from clear cut.

i definitely do not agree that pakistan should accept the lion shares of fault for what afghanistan is, this is just wild finger pointing, for some reason afghans like to blame their neighbours for all that is wrong in their nation

when the mujhadeen had won, and the americans had left maybe pakistan should have done NOTHING at all...?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

i am not sure how much credence can be given to hearsay and anecdotal stories, especially from people who are not necessarily in the best position to discern how true it is what they hear, rumours can spread

however i am inclined to agree with you that it probably did go on, but i am hesitant to accept as truth something which is far from clear cut.

i definitely do not agree that pakistan should accept the lion shares of fault for what afghanistan is, this is just wild finger pointing, for some reason afghans like to blame their neighbours for all that is wrong in their nation

when the mujhadeen had won, and the americans had left maybe pakistan should have done NOTHING at all...?

We don't say Pakistan should take the lion share, but they played a dirty role...what their motivations were are clear. However, it is a realization that the interests of Pakistan (particularly their security dilemma) are not in line with the interests of Pashtuns/Afghans.

BTW it is not the fact that they did or didn't do something, but rather what they did. They are not the sole problem...if anything Pashtuns take the most blame. However, for Pashtuns to not repeat their mistakes it is rational that they forge their own policy.

[r3alist]

We don't say Pakistan should take the lion share, but they played a dirty role...what their motivations were are clear. However, it is a realization that the interests of Pakistan (particularly their security dilemma) are not in line with the interests of Pashtuns/Afghans.

BTW it is not the fact that they did or didn't do something, but rather what they did. They are not the sole problem...if anything Pashtuns take the most blame. However, for Pashtuns to not repeat their mistakes it is rational that they forge their own policy.

you say what pakistan "did"...i would like to know in a post soviet world, with no US interest what exactly would have happened with the mujhadeen and what is it that pakistan "did" that was not already happening?

pakistan does have its national interests, which does not have to mean afghan/pak are enemies, as long as afghan respects pak's national interests there will not be a problem, there can be a great friendship

if afghanistan pursues an aggressive and even expansionist policy then there is a problem, from what i read this is what afghan interests are, yet you somehow have a problem with a reaction to this....

[BLS_1919v2.0]

you say what pakistan "did"...i would like to know in a post soviet world, with no US interest what exactly would have happened with the mujhadeen and what is it that pakistan "did" that was not already happening?

pakistan does have its national interests, which does not have to mean afghan/pak are enemies, as long as afghan respects pak's national interests there will not be a problem, there can be a great friendship

if afghanistan pursues an aggressive and even expansionist policy then there is a problem, from what i read this is what afghan interests are, yet you somehow have a problem with a reaction to this....

You are asking me to indirectly defend Pakistan's policies of the 90s. I am not going to do that. In an ideal world yes, but Pakistan's primary issue is India and for that very reason its security establishment had set up a very dangerous policy in the 90s and it also tried to curb many major political parties of Pashtuns (nationalists primarily). Now you may say that in the context of Pakistan sure they had to. However I am talking about Pashtuns.

Again I can't sit here and reverse or ignore what happened during those 90s. I am going by what happened.

[r3alist]

You are asking me to indirectly defend Pakistan's policies of the 90s. I am not going to do that. In an ideal world yes, but Pakistan's primary issue is India and for that very reason its security establishment had set up a very dangerous policy in the 90s and it also tried to curb many major political parties of Pashtuns (nationalists primarily). Now you may say that in the context of Pakistan sure they had to. However I am talking about Pashtuns.

Again I can't sit here and reverse or ignore what happened during those 90s. I am going by what happened.

no, i am asking you to explain how you can so easily blame pakistan for something that already existed

the taliban was a means to an end, neither the soviets, the americans, the pakistanis or afghans could fix it

pakistan did not create them, they merely allowed them(mujhadeen0 to be - and the reason for this - no worries in afghanistan for pak - so i am not asking you to defend anything, i am asking you to understand a concept of pursuing national interests

if not the taliban then who?

what should pak have done instead?

[Shayesta]

^ How about Pakistan should have minded their own business? You didn't have to do us a favor by sending us whatever thrashy groups under whichever terroristic names, you should have kept them with yourselves. Yes, it were Afghans amongst them but if your country wouldn't have given what they needed in order to 'start a war', then how on earth would they have managed to? I doubt USA would have trained them in US and sent them back to Afghanistan, don't you?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

no, i am asking you to explain how you can so easily blame pakistan for something that already existed

the taliban was a means to an end, neither the soviets, the americans, the pakistanis or afghans could fix it

pakistan did not create them, they merely allowed them(mujhadeen0 to be - and the reason for this - no worries in afghanistan for pak - so i am not asking you to defend anything, i am asking you to understand a concept of pursuing national interests

if not the taliban then who?

what should pak have done instead?

R3alist, go ask the Pakistani policy-makers what they should have or haven't done. I am just telling what I as a Pashtun believe and see what the policy has done. No my friend taliban movement was a little more than that, and you have to see the dishonesty of the 90s where regional countries played a very dirty role in that country. If you understood pashto I could send you some things.