Pushto and Dari In Afghanistan:Reality

[Shayesta]

@BLS
Oh trust me, once a Hazara learns Pukhto then you as a Pukhtoon will be the one corrected by them. No joke.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

If you don't know...don't comment. Visit Kandahar. Enlighten yourself. That's the problem. Many of you don't know. Peshawaris cant write as good Pashto or read as good Pashto as Hazaras of Kandahar. I challenge you. Why? Because Pashto is not taught to you guys. Its taught to Hazaras. Hazaras have wrote papers in Pashto.

PEACE.

Jasmine for a journalist you don't seem to re read. No read what I said. I said it is doubtful that a hazara can speak pashto better than a pashtun overall. Maybe in peshawar city they could, but other areas. Definitely not. Now notice I am talking in general. I am not insulting kandahar.

You know what this discourse that pashtuns are having explains a lot about us. We don't even know who is supporting us and who is against us, and we are so quick to jump the gun. Maybe if we step back, calm down and see all our faults we could be of some use. Then again no surprise.

[Laila]

Capital rules, Afghanistan's capital is Kabul city, and over 70% of the Kabul city population are non-Pukhtoons. Isn't it obvious that Dari will dominate in such an area? Yet I was surprised that I heard as much Pukhto as Dari in Kabul city and much more Pukhto music than Dari music. I am sure Laila (forum member) has noticed the same. Same wise how Kandahar is around 30% non-Pukhtoon, but yet a Pukhto dominated area. I can't remember I ever heard a Tajik moan about Kandahar not promoting Dari? And about other parts, if Pukhtoons speak Pukhto, then besides their own language others ethnic also used speak Dari when Afghanistan was newly formed. Which includes; Nurestanis, Kohistanis, Balochis, Qizilbash, Aimak, Pashayi, Uzbeks, Hazaras, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Shayesta! i have given up on explaining that Pashto means something there. I really gave up. I dont know how else to emphasize it.

YES! Kabul has majority non pashtun population. And YES people DO speak Pashto plenty there. YES, schools HAVE pashto in them. Do i need to explain more? Majority of schools promote both languages. And some schools even offer just ONLY pashto. I visited a couple of schools. I visited Kabul University. I have interacted and conversed with many students.
Obviously Shayesta and I did not come up with BS.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

What else is there to read in this? Did I misquote you?

You said,



I said, If you don't know what your talking about. Don't comment. Its a fair comment isn't it? Kandahar has schools that teach Pashto all over the province. Peshawar does not. What does common sense tell you BLS? Tell me what your common sense says.

Yes I said Hazaras...I didn't say Kandahar. Obviously anyone who lives in a pashtun dominated province or area will speak it well (basically like a native). This is the case of gujjars, sikhs in Pashtunkhwa or hazaras in quetta or kandahar. Like I said you didn't get what I was saying.

I never said Kandahar doesn't have these things. Za tsa waemaa ao thaso da kam zae na khabarae kawae.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

BLS, I suggest you to look at where you quoted me and I suggest you to read what I said. Do me that favor and return and give me what you found.

I clearly was talking about HAZARAS OF KANDAHAR. The entire discussion and point of mine was based on them. You came out of no where and said that is not true. I went ahead and explained to you that it is true. In your rebuttal you said what am I saying? How much sense does that make? You quoted me out of context and did not even read why I mentioned Hazaras.

Fair enough...I apologize.

[Michin Khel]

I am surprised at the claim of jasmine & shayesta that hazaras of kandahar speak better than pashtuns of pakistan... what a joke

I have heard & read kandahari pashto, it is sadly very heavily corrupted with dari and this fact is confirmed and agreed by many kandaharis to me. I am not biased to kandahar but i am calling spade a spade.

Pashto in rural areas of pakistan is very rich and pure.

[Michin Khel]

Fair enough...I apologize.

Your apologetic behaviour is disturbing...

Never compromise on truth

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Your apologetic behaviour is disturbing...

Never compromise on truth

I am not apologizing because of the facts I said. I am apologizing because I misunderstood Jasmine's post. I confused what she said. I haven't compromised...rest assured.

[Michin Khel]

@jasmine

I have studied in governament school where pashto is taught, i can read and write in pashto.

Ta tsa khyaal da feroz afridi pashto zda kawano ta afghanistan ta talay wu? tapoos warna waka.

[ijaz yousafzai]

Call a spade a spade. Pashto has no status in Pakhtunkhwa but I am happy that its now slowly soon to be implement according to the new PROPOSAL.Its just a PROPOSAL.

Tajiks, Hazaras all can write in Pashto as well. What I am typing in English right now, they can type in Pashto. The Pashto they speak is not "corrupted" with Urdu either or the famous, "Kha Jhee" or "Teek so" or "Da pa pandra so rupee da".

I don't know what is you up to? There is no denying the fact that Pashto has no status in Peshawar, because Peshawar happens to be located in Pakistan, the heir to British India, to whom Peshwarites were sold by your King for 18 lacks Kaldares. It is ridiculous that you are wasting your energies in a futile discussions to compare the " slaves" with the inmates of Afghanistan, which had a Pakhtun self rule for almost 300 years.Pashto was banned even at elementry level in Pakhtunkhwa, and therefore it was not our choice, but Amir Abdur Rehman's political will, which send us to the lurch. As I said earlier, it is like, someone sell his sister/daughter to a brothel in Punjab and then scolding her for prostitution.The Afghan Ruler gave our hand to the Firingis in a forced wedlock as Swara,to bail out his uninterrupted,easy rule.So we can not and could not be like you in the languge. Mong la peghor ma rakawa,daa wara staso la laasa!.
Janana lag ghairat kho okra
Che pa Qasaab me kharsawe wraka ba shama

[BehavedMaseed]

I would like to also Disagree with Jasmine on here firstly on the grounds that Pushto spoken in Afghanistan is very dominated with Farsi wrods as explained on another thread. The Pushto spoken in the tribal areas of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa is very pure in essence and it only takes one to visit the region to see for him/herself.


Politicians Argue Over Language of Schooling in Kabul

A plan for Pashto-language schools in Kabul reveals deep rifts in Afghan society.
By Anonymous - Afghanistan
ARR Issue 274,

22 Nov 07













National unity has always been a difficult concept in Afghanistan, a country with a bewildering array of ethnic and tribal groups, and language often serves as the lightening rod for controversy. The issue recently resurfaced with a government plan to dramatically increase the number of Pashto-language schools in Kabul, the predominantly Dari-speaking capital.

While some politicians applauded the education ministry’s initiative, it has prompted a strong backlash from others.

During a roundtable discussion on Tolo TV, Kabul member of parliament Najibullah Kabuli went as far as calling the initiative a “crime”, and accused Education Minister Hanif Atmar of seeking to sow disunity among schoolchildren.
Education ministry spokesman Zahoor Afghan defended the proposal, pointing to Article 43 of the Afghan constitution which requires the state to provide classes in local languages in the areas where they are spoken.

“The real criminals are those who robbed and killed people and then forced their way into parliament using the power of the gun,” he told IWPR, before adding that Pashtun parents in Kabul were asking for opportunities for their children to study in their own tongue.

Another Kabul parliamentarian, Malalai Shinwari, supports the proposal.
“This is the children’s right, and I hope the government will give them this right,” she said. “A child can learn better in its own language than in any other.”
Aqel Khan, a year ten pupil at the Rahman Babahi High School, said he couldn’t agree more. Before transferring to a Pashto-language school, he attended classes where Dari was the teaching medium.

“When lectures were given in Dari, I couldn’t understand them,” he said. “Here I can learn and remember things easily, as I am studying in my native language.”
Shinwari accused opponents of the plan of acting out of political motives.
“They are fanatically opposed to Pashto and want to impose their own language on others,” she claimed.

But Sayed Shafiq, a legislator from Herat, a Dari-speaking area, said he fears separating children according to language will deepen the divisions in Afghan society.
“When one pupil goes to one class and a second to another, it creates disunity,” he said. “And from my point of view, it is a blow to Afghanistan’s image.”
At an October 31 press conference, Education Minister Atmar told reporters that providing classes in different languages is not new to Afghanistan.
“This issue has not resulted in disunity over the past 70 years, so why would it do so now?” he asked.

Dari and Pashto are by far the most widespread languages in Afghanistan, and very roughly speaking prevail in the north and south, respectively. Kabul parliamentary Fawzia Nasiryar pointed out that many other languages are spoken throughout Afghanistan, for instance Uzbek and Turkmen. If Kabul’s Pashtuns have access to education in their language, other linguistic minorities should be granted the same right, she argued.

“This action by the education minister is a tribal action,” she claimed. “If it isn’t tribal, why hasn’t he built schools for other languages? The minister is taking such action only for the sake of his tribe.”

Ministry spokesman Afghan defended the cabinet’s decision to create separate schools for Pashtuns, who are by far the largest group in Kabul using a language other than Dari in daily life.

There are about 200,000 Pashtun students in the city, according to ministry statistics. Of those, only 20,000 actually study in Pashto. Just five out of Kabul’s 175 schools are Pashto-only, while nine more provide classes in both Pashto and Dari.
Herat parliamentarian Ahmad Behzad applauded the initiative. “Both Dari and Pashto are our formal languages,” he pointed out. “People from all over Afghanistan live in the capital. Some pupils are unable to study in Dari, yet education in one’s native language is one of the pillars of the constitution.”

The education ministry’s contentious new plan is not the first time language and ethnicity have sparked controversy. During the 2003 Loya Jirga or national assembly, Pashtun and Dari-speaking Tajik representatives clashed over which language should have primacy in the constitution. Eventually both Dari and Pashto were recognised.

The language used for Afghanistan’s national anthem further inflamed tensions. The words are currently in Pashto, but some politicians have threatened not to stand when it is being played.

Wahidullah Amani is IWPR’s lead trainer and reporter in Kabul.



http://iwpr.net/report-news/politici...chooling-kabul

If Pushto is the dominate and official language of Afghans accepted by Afghans as you claim then why are their clashes when a proposal is given about providing education or making Pushto the language of the consittution? If Hazaras,Tajiks can write Pushto and Speak Pushto then what is the problem?

Kind Regards

[Michin Khel]

Sholambay every body agrees that pashtuns have also title of afghan but as a matter of fact it is limited to documents and books in pakhtunkhwa. In pakistan afghan means citizen of afghanistan and it doesnt mean pashtun of pakistan. Nobody in pakhtunkhwa call himself/herself afghan in public. If you have spent some time in pakistan then you should be aware of this fact. The most proper title of us is pashtun.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Sholambay every body agrees that pashtuns have also title of afghan but as a matter of fact it is limited to documents and books in pakhtunkhwa. In pakistan afghan means citizen of afghanistan and it doesnt mean pashtun of pakistan. Nobody in pakhtunkhwa call himself/herself afghan in public. If you have spent some time in pakistan then you should be aware of this fact. The most proper title of us is pashtun.

Unfortunately this is the case in northern Pashtunkhwa (not south pashtunkhwa though)...and this is our lack of cultural and historical input in the system. Our education system, history on a state level has been cut off or neglected. If we can re fix it it can bring those necessary changes.

[Michin Khel]

We are pashtuns, afghan is secondary title.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Ok both are our titles, primary secondary che tsa wartha waee khalko. Can we please move on? Can we talk about other things and not you know, have to re invent the wheel. Any ideas about donating to schools, helping each other with scholarship programs, maybe businesses back home...etc.