Can Kaafir Pashtun Nationalist represent Pashtuns in Politics?

[abubaker]

will i don't know about you but to me this thread is about religion, how can you answer his question without thinking about the religious implications of what he is suggesting

do you think a non Muslim leader will let you implement shariah

[Palwasha]

The order of the occurrence of various religious figures/scriptures in the recorded history is :Krishna, Abraham,Moses, Zoroaster, Pharaoh Akhenatan of ancient Egypt, Buddha, Mahavira (Jainism) Bhagvad-Gita,Jesus Christ, and Muhammad.

You forgot Adam ('alaihis salaam).

[abubaker]

That is a wrong notion considering the history of the religion.
The origin of the religion dates back to the hunter-gatherer lifestyle of nomdic humans who lived in jungles and feared snakes, fire, thunderstorms, etc. The earliest records are 5000 years old (that's what we all know as "humans"). The prehistoric religions (the paleolithics ones) are the oldest ones. The "organized" form of religion started in the neolithic revolution when humans abandoned their hunter-gatherer lifestyles.The worshipping of gods/goddesses in ancient Egypt is an example. Around 4000BC, Rigveda was compiled (hence hinduism is "oldest living religion"). The order of the occurrence of various religious figures/scriptures in the recorded history is :Krishna, Abraham,Moses, Zoroaster, Pharaoh Akhenatan of ancient Egypt, Buddha, Mahavira (Jainism) Bhagvad-Gita,Jesus Christ, and Muhammad.

read the above posts please

[PFgulalai]

You forgot Adam ('alaihis salaam).

I did not just ignore him but thousands of other dieties as well.So far Adam is concerned, according to the Jeudo-Christian Holy Bible, God created Adam and Eve as his image around 4000BC. This, however, still does not make Islam the prehistoric religion as had been claimed here.

[BehavedMaseed]

The Arabs were very wise by Arabising History that was ALREADY written and recorded. How can you all of a sudden, bring the Write the Quran and then claim the bible and torah was practiced by Muslims. There was no such thing as a Muslim doing that period. Arabs were left out and they decided to invent a new Relgion to counter their traditional enemies the Jews.

Its very amusing how Islam claims the Muslims were the first followers and to add to this laughable idea the Quran and these Mohammands were brought into the scence some 1000's of years after the discovery of christianity and judaism lol!

Its a joke! complete illogical Joke! Just like how the Arabs interpretated Aristoles work and claim it as their own, same can be said about their invention the Quran, which was produced way after the discovery of Judaism and Christianity.

Its like one saying Pascal invented the law of gravity some 100 years ago and in 2010 some Muslim says Pascal was also a Muslim and Allah guided him to invent the law of gravity by dropping a apple on his head.

Islam was clever to dominate other faiths by using smart words such as the people of the book, Allah sent bible, torah but they disbeleived etc and their sources are words written by some arab in Arabia some 1000's of years after discovery of christianity and judaism

Kind Regards

[BehavedMaseed]

Maseed Islam had been active since Adam and eve. How do you define a Muslim

Your evidence is a book written by a Arab after some 2000 years of the discovery of Christianity and Judaism.

There is no such thing as trying to be clever with words. Christianity, Judaism were the first relgions to be established, Its kind of a Mockery that Islam comes after so long and claims all the past prophets were Arabs and they arabise their names.

Kind Regards

[Palwasha]

I did not just ignore him but thousands of other dieties as well.So far Adam is concerned, according to the Jeudo-Christian Holy Bible, God created Adam and Eve as his image around 4000BC. This, however, still does not make Islam the prehistoric religion as had been claimed here.

That's a claim from the Bible..

Of course as a non-Muslim I don't expect you to believe in Adam or Eve, right? However, Islam has been present in this World since the beginning of creation; when spirit was breathed into Adam ('alaihis salaam), who was a Muslim.

This is the Islamic perspective, Gulalai. Naturally, those who don't follow Islam, will find this hard to comprehend, no?

[abubaker]

the bottom line is that no kafir will ever, no matter how open minded let us establish full sharia state

on those basis no kafir can ever represent the pashtun of whom a huge majority are conservative Muslims

[PFgulalai]

That's a claim from the Bible..

Of course as a non-Muslim I don't expect you to believe in Adam or Eve, right? However, Islam has been present in this World since the beginning of creation; when spirit was breathed into Adam ('alaihis salaam), who was a Muslim.

This is the Islamic perspective, Gulalai. Naturally, those who don't follow Islam, will find this hard to comprehend, no?

In practice, Islam started in 7th century AD as far as the recorded history of the religions is concerned. The fossil record of earliest humans is considered to be much older than 6000 years old (considering the claim of Bible). Some of the recent fossil records are considered as old as 17,000 years, and even 40,000!!!The earliest forms of humans (much before the humans who started practicing prehistoric religions) did not practice religion, based on the evidence from the fossil records of prehistoric times. Considering this, we can have two scenarios: (1) Adam was the first human and he did not practice Islam (assuming that he was the first man with no religion based on the fossil record), or (2) Adam was not the first human, and there were prehistoric men before him who were not practicing religion.By the way, if Adam was muslim, why did it take SO LONG for Islam to establish itself? Look at the history of religions spanning over thousands of years. If God gave Adam the "message of Islam" and that he was the first person on earth, how come we don't see any history of "muslims" including Adam himself for the duration between his first day and the birth of Islam in Mecca? Also, Adam asked his sons Abel and Cain to marry their sisters which qualifies as incest according to Islam.Why you think Adam was muslim?

[PFgulalai]

Gulalai khorakey jaaney,
Islam was a gradual process. Why didn't you start college at the age of 5? why did you first attend primary school, JHS, HS etc. Same goes with Islam we Pashtuns/Muslims respect Judaism etc. But it was the past. Islam is now the future. Many scientists have agreed that what Islam had predicted 1400 years ago is now coming true.

How do you describe Islam or Muslim? It means to Submit to one God. Adam and Even both submitted to one God. Islam did not start with Muhammad. He is not founded of our Religion. He is our final mesenger.

Alhamdulillah today 99.9 percent Pashtuns follow Islam and are devoted Muslims.

Aseerjaan, of all the claims you made, I found this as the most amusing one. If possible, can you please elaborate?

Furthermore, Islam was founded by Muhammad as far as the historical record is concerned.You can think of Adam or Jesus as the founder of Islam but that is not what we learn from history.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

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[PFgulalai]

Saying Islam was founded by Muhammad is ignorance dear sister. Its nothing but ignorance.
I can post hundreds of other scientists as well. I guess those scientists don't seem amused do they? nor where they forced.

Peace.

Why is it ignorance when we know Islam originated from Mecca with the help of Muhammad. Nobody knew Islam before him. A founder is someone who formulates basis for something and hence Muhammad established the foundations of Islam. If Muhammad was not the founder, then who was the founder? Somebody has to be there to bring this religion into world (from God according to you). Who was that somebody if it was not Muhammad?

I am aware of thousands of scientists like these (including those whom you posted) who believe in religion and would provide "evidence" from Bible, Quran, Talmud, Gita,etc., for trying to establish a "link" between science and religion (mostly by twisting words) but that does not qualify as a "scientifically valid argument". Let's consider the principle of saving the life of humans by Talmud and Quran. Scientists also save the life of humans by spending countless hours in developing a vaccine. Do you think it is possible to establish the link between the two "saving the human life" procedures, considering the difference in the approach, mechanism and the nature of the two procedures? The religious books did not predict the 2009 H1N1 pandemic influenza but scientists of USA predicted it 20 years ago based on the Spanish, Machester, HongKong influenza pandemic outbreaks in the last century. Why was not such prediction not made in Quran, considering that such prediction would not only have saved the life of millions of humans but would also have realized the principle of "saving the life of humans" in practice?

[PFgulalai]

correction. Yes they did. What you are saying is incorrect. The Quran was revealed to the prophet. But our Religion did not just start there. Our Quran refers to past revelations as well. He revealed the Quran. Saying he founded our Religion is incorrect since our Religion has been on since Adam and Eve. Both were Muslims the term Muslim probably was not used as often but what they believed in those days was just as fine and the Quran speaks about it.Like I said Islam means submitting your will to Allah. Adam indeed submitted his will. Allah has used different prophets to give us his beloved message. Our final message is the Quran which was revealed on our lovely Prophet Muhammad PBUH. We also believe that the Bible was once the truth.

This can satisfy any person who does not read history and does not want to to know about the history of mankind.

Allah has gave us minds and thoughts. Our Quran has made scientific predictions and its perfectly compatible with science. Its not like our Religion says the earth is flat. or that Humans are robots. Allah has gave us mind and Ahadith even say go to China to Educate yourselves. We as Muslims need to educate our selves and that should be our goal. The Quran does not tell us every little thing such as how to use the bathroom or how to wash your mouth. We have common sense and other sources for that.

Why will I use my mind, if the "predictions" are already mentioned there?
Why will I go to China to educate myself, if everything has been told to me?
If I have to derive everything from commonsense (means using my own good judgement), or that God wants me to develop the commonsense for myself and consulting other sources, then what is the purpose of God?

Ultimately it all comes down to faith. Faith and faith. I have faith. Many professors in my University have converted to Islam and they have faith.

I am least concerned with getting inspiration from many more professors, doctors, engineers, scientists, etc., adopting a faith. I am interested in knowing why did not you go to China for higher studies?

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

[akbarkhan]

Aseer, what evidence do you have that suggests that Islam predates 7th century Arabia?

Islam theologically and literally means 'submission to the will of God' hence Islam does predate 7th century Arabia as there are historical accounts and geological evidence of people, tribes, cities and prophets that have submitted themselves to God and declared His Oneness since the dawn of our existence.

Furthermore, Allah swt refers to all the prophets of the previous generations as Muslims - starting from Adam. Now I know that you perhaps don't believe in Quran and Adam (instead you rather believe in Lenin, Trotsky, Marx and Engels) and therefore you might try to disregard this argument but then the onus is on you to prove Quran as non-divine & wrong.

@aseer khan don't waste your time, effort and talent on spoon-fed toddlers.