Can Kaafir Pashtun Nationalist represent Pashtuns in Politics?

[Master Khan]

I am pretty sure you are not being honest here. For one, it would only be in Afghanistan that women are not safe. Not in the land of the infidel. For example, in the land of the infidel, she can choose who she wants to marry. Further, in Afghanistan she is a second class citizen who lacks the basic right a dignified human being has.

The infidel did not destroy Afghanistan. All is fair in love and war. Afghanistan was not strong enough to withstand the powers of those who had vested interest in the area.

Moreover, it would be impossible to have an "honest muslim pashtun as our leader" until and unless you don't separate church for state. Otherwise, he would have to cater to the religious masses in order to sustain power.

and you think thats because of Islam, Islam doesn't teach us to treat women like 2nd class citizens or force them to get married to someone else.
Its kafirs that give us bad image and brainwash us to believe these things.
We just need good education and proper islam teaching.
These kaafirs are teaching our kids in afghanistan about how jesus is god etc..we don't want this bull**** in our land.

[JAMALUDEEN]

It is not easy to hide something among the intellectual elite.


This is incoherent.
Again, incoherent.

Just because it is incoherent for you, doesn't mean it is for others. It might well be the solution for all the problems.

Whichever way you slice the cake what you have proposed comes under what will work: Separate church and state or allow for a puppet government to take over in order to help to progress the nation.

Qand Byadarak, i am trying to reason with you. Speaking of progress, china is also progressing and so is Iran, yet they are not secular.

Progress is never felt right away. It takes time. Many generations later our children will reap the harvest of what we sow today. We have to put our heads at the stake for their well being. If this had happened 100 years ago we would not be in the situation that we are in today.

Qand Byadarak, i left you a few questions. How do you think Muslim population will react to such a change? Are they going to welcome it?

How can you properly educated people so as to not be taken advantage of if there is no secular system that exist? Without a secular society the cycle will continue to deteriorate our social fabric.

If i am not mistaken, what you are implying is that, education only exists in a secular society? And without a secular society, people are going to live in caves.

Actually, it is not. At the start of the Russian-Afghan war many of us became refugees. Our parents had to adapt to the Western form of life, which is secular. Despite, living under non-Muslim rulers, today, many Muslims in the West are able to preach their faith without a problem. The problem of lack of freedom of conscience exists under an Islam system not a secular system.

Why did the people (Mujahideen) oppose the Russians?

[JAMALUDEEN]

There is the natural and congenital difficulty involved in the ruling of people of different tongue, tradition, national feeling, minorities and religion. Patriotism exists, but the leaders have failed to inspire nationalist sentiment in the people. In my view, secularism is the best option for the problems of the present day Afghanistan but the problem is that it has no inspired mass of followers and without the support of Islamists, it would probably not be able for secularists to maintain its hold successfully for any length of time over all the territory of the country.

Exactly my point. Thanks Khan Gul

[Dust]

and you think thats because of Islam, Islam doesn't teach us to treat women like 2nd class citizens or force them to get married to someone else.
Its kafirs that give us bad image and brainwash us to believe these things.
We just need good education and proper islam teaching.
These kaafirs are teaching our kids in afghanistan about how jesus is god etc..we don't want this bull**** in our land.

If Islam does teach that then people would have to consider practicing what your religion teaches then, and I would not blame the infidel to have taught you anything you did not already adhere to.

If you don't want the bull**** of others being preached in your land then why do Muslims preach in the lands of others? You have to evaluate your statement beyond the realm of what is dear to you.

[Millatpal Noorzai]

@ Dust,

Are you Meemwawmeemnoon (Namomin) with a different nick?

[Feroza_Banu]

^oh nooooooooooooos! :cry:

[Dust]

Just because it is incoherent for you, doesn't mean it is for others. It might well be the solution for all the problems.

If it is not incoherent then re-phrase it. What you wrote is not coherent meaning I cannot make out what you are trying to say. Rephrase what you are trying to convey.

Qand Byadarak, i am trying to reason with you. Speaking of progress, china is also progressing and so is Iran, yet they are not secular.

Would you want to live in Iran or China?

Qand Byadarak, i left you a few questions. How do you think Muslim population will react to such a change? Are they going to welcome it?

How did Europe deal with it? Progress does not happen overnight.

If i am not mistaken, what you are implying is that, education only exists in a secular society? And without a secular society, people are going to live in caves.

Not at all. Education is limited in a non-secular society.

Why did the people (Mujahideen) oppose the Russians?

What good did it bring?

[abubaker]

namomin pre las barkhi sharaf lari

[Dust]

@ Dust,

Are you Meemwawmeemnoon (Namomin) with a different nick?

No, I am not.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Stop dodging question..

Would you want to live in Iran or China?

You were speaking of progress and i showed you many routes towards progress, e.g. Communism (not that i prefer it).

How did Europe deal with it? Progress does not happen overnight.

Exactly my point, change takes time. If the people are not educated and the only thing they have is their imaan and religion, then how are you going to convince them.

Not at all. Education is limited in a non-secular society.

Then how did china progress and North Korea. it's competing with USA. LOL

What good did it bring?

Freed people from the commies (Atheists).

[Master Khan]

If Islam does teach that then people would have to consider practicing what your religion teaches then, and I would not blame the infidel to have taught you anything you did not already adhere to.

If you don't want the bull**** of others being preached in your land then why do Muslims preach in the lands of others? You have to evaluate your statement beyond the realm of what is dear to you.

we don't go up to kids and teach them about our religion.
These Kafirs in Afghanistan gives the kids food in one head and a bible in the other.
Screw them, they are brainwashing our children.

[Badlun]

Developed world has not forsaken their religion. USA is the most religious country . Europe has churches, temples and mosques too. Have a survey of all the G8 or G20 countries of the developed world and religion exists in the private lives of people and churches or religious places still attract many people. Spirituality is also gaining popularity but the religious pandits are only restricted to religious places. They dont become Taliban to rule over the masses.

Even in the Muslim world Mullas are not governing. Even in deeply religiously countries like Saudi, Pakistan, Afghanistan , the rulers are not Mullas but modernly educated politicians. Here the problem is the absence of democracy and the lack of modern education for the masses. In Afghanistan Somalia and Pakistan religious extremism and terrorism in the shape of Taliban or Wahabi salafis is another menace.

[Khan Gul]

There are two options. Take the long course that Europe took or take the short course that Kamal Ataturk took.

The short course is out of question. The growth of the sentiment of Turkey's identity was connected with the movement away from Islamic practice and tradition, and toward Europe. The short course of Ataturk will necessitate a large-scale deliberate attempt to take a whole nation across the frontier from one civilization to another. Afghans will never allow that to happen.

[Dust]

Stop dodging question..

I did not know there was a question that I dodged.

You were speaking of progress and i showed you many routes towards progress, e.g. Communism (not that i prefer it).

Iran is not all-together clasped in a non-secular society. It is only recent. Many of their visions existed before the Islamic Revolution. They have a lot of intellectuals who don't particularly care for religion. Further, secularism means to separate church and state. Communism has nothing to do with religion.

Exactly my point, change takes time. If the people are not educated and the only thing they have and know is their imaan, then how are you going to convince them.

Well, that is the problem. You can't bring a change in these of people. Afghanistan is not a secular society and if imaan was all that mattered then we should have progressed.

Then how did china progress and North Korea. it's competing with USA. LOL

Because they don't adhere to a particular faith. Religion does not dictate their governments.

Freed people from the commies (Atheists).

I don't think that communism was the problem of Afghanistan. With the withdrawal of the USSR and its collapse, Afghanistan has not progressed. Further, Afghanistan could not have defeated the Russians without Western help.

So, you have freed yourselves from the shackles of communism just to be used as puppets against your own people by the same people who have helped you.

[Dust]

Developed world has not forsaken their religion. USA is the most religious country . Europe has churches, temples and mosques too. Have a survey of all the G8 or G20 countries of the developed world and religion exists in the private lives of people and churches or religious places still attract many people. Spirituality is also gaining popularity but the religious pandits are only restricted to religious places. They dont become Taliban to rule over the masses.

Even in the Muslim world Mullas are not governing. Even in deeply religiously countries like Saudi, Pakistan, Afghanistan , the rulers are not Mullas but modernly educated politicians. Here the problem is the absence of democracy and the lack of modern education for the masses. In Afghanistan Somalia and Pakistan religious extremism and terrorism in the shape of Taliban or Wahabi salafis is another menace.

All this is due to the fact that church and state has been divided.