U.S., Taliban talks end for now with no Afghan peace deal

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-afghanistan-talks/u-s-taliban-talks-end-for-now-with-no-afghan-peace-deal-idUSKBN1QT26Q

[maneatinglizard]

Tolo reports that a draft deal was competed:

https://www.tolonews.com/index.php/afghanistan/us-taliban’s-qatar-talks-end-agreements

[khushal]

WSJ is saying one of the key disagreements was the definition of a terrorist.

[Akbar]

They have reached agreement and next talks will be with Afghan government. A have prepared a draft agreement.

[Akbar]

WSJ is saying one of the key disagreements was the definition of a terrorist.

Probably true.
Which Is a strong argument point.
Also in their meeting in russia taliban said they want foreign
Forces to leave but leave all their gear. Dont know how realistic this demand is.

[randolph85]

This is good news and hopefully there isn’t a long wait between the next talks. Ghani needs to deputize the likes of Karzai, Atta, and others who attended the Moscow meeting to represent the government in next face to face meetings. Ghani’s first team was a complete joke and doesn’t represent the power interests in the country no matter how bad these people are it is a reality. What I don’t like is that there is talk of US bases remaining. The Taliban are participating in the Jihad but they are not the Jihad, they have no right to agree to these terms.

[khushal]

They wont talk to Afghan gov until foreign forces leave. They are sticking to their narrative. The Taliban arent desperate for these talks, its not like they are on the verge of elimination.

[maneatinglizard]

This is good news and hopefully there isn’t a long wait between the next talks. Ghani needs to deputize the likes of Karzai, Atta, and others who attended the Moscow meeting to represent the government in next face to face meetings. Ghani’s first team was a complete joke and doesn’t represent the power interests in the country no matter how bad these people are it is a reality. What I don’t like is that there is talk of US bases remaining. The Taliban are participating in the Jihad but they are not the Jihad, they have no right to agree to these terms.

This makes sense but we're heading in the opposite direction, with government forces and Noor's people openly fighting on the streets of Balkh:

https://www.tolonews.com/afghanistan/violence-erupts-balkh-over-appointment-new-police-chief

I don't believe the claim that the Taliban are okay with US bases remaining. Their fighters would revolt if they agreed to that. Unless they're referring to the US embassy, I doubt the Taliban would accept the presence of any US base as doing so would basically undermine their entire justification for fighting.

[randolph85]

They wont talk to Afghan gov until foreign forces leave. They are sticking to their narrative. The Taliban arent desperate for these talks, its not like they are on the verge of elimination.

Everyone is desperate for talks which is why they are talking now instead of 10 years ago or 10 years from now. US wants to wipe its hands clean of Afghanistan and I am pretty sure the Taliban are tired of fighting an endless war where they are continuously being killed like government troops are, all while living in seclusion and being parariahs.

This cool calm demeanor from both sides is because no one wants to look weak. At the end of the day, Afghans are losing lives while US is losing money. Not exactly an even comparison.

The problem is that no side is on the verge of elimination and that just prolongs bloodshed.

[randolph85]

This makes sense but we're heading in the opposite direction, with government forces and Noor's people openly fighting on the streets of Balkh:

https://www.tolonews.com/afghanistan/violence-erupts-balkh-over-appointment-new-police-chief

I don't believe the claim that the Taliban are okay with US bases remaining. Their fighters would revolt if they agreed to that. Unless they're referring to the US embassy, I doubt the Taliban would accept the presence of any US base as doing so would basically undermine their entire justification for fighting.

These are just rumors from insiders who are involved in the talks. I seriously doubt we will ever know what is agreed upon even after the deal is sealed. I doubt the US military will ever truly leave the country completely. They may use ambiguous language to describe them like “trainers” or some bs like that. They have seemingly conceded on not being allied with the likes of AQ, never mind that they are non existent in the country in 2019 and barely there in 2001 but it’s a symbolic conceding of something they publicly didn’t budge on in 2001 even though behind the scenes they wanted nothing to do with AQ war on America.

[Insight]

These are just rumors from insiders who are involved in the talks. I seriously doubt we will ever know what is agreed upon even after the deal is sealed. I doubt the US military will ever truly leave the country completely. They may use ambiguous language to describe them like “trainers” or some bs like that. They have seemingly conceded on not being allied with the likes of AQ, never mind that they are non existent in the country in 2019 and barely there in 2001 but it’s a symbolic conceding of something they publicly didn’t budge on in 2001 even though behind the scenes they wanted nothing to do with AQ war on America.

The US is going. Give up on this idea popular with "in denial" Kabul regime supporters that they will never leave.

Because if that was even remotely true, Taliban would have never sat for talks, and you know that

[khushal]

Everyone is desperate for talks which is why they are talking now instead of 10 years ago or 10 years from now. US wants to wipe its hands clean of Afghanistan and I am pretty sure the Taliban are tired of fighting an endless war where they are continuously being killed like government troops are, all while living in seclusion and being parariahs.

This cool calm demeanor from both sides is because no one wants to look weak. At the end of the day, Afghans are losing lives while US is losing money. Not exactly an even comparison.

The problem is that no side is on the verge of elimination and that just prolongs bloodshed.

The Taliban were open for dialogue with the US even before 911 and during the Karzai years, they always insisted that they would only sit with the US gov and not the Afghan gov. This stance has never changed. The only variable that has changed is Trump being elected and he is the one that has changed policy even though his advisors are telling him to abandon these talks. MIC makes money through war, not peace. If the US scraps it, it means the MIC successfully maneuvered behind closed doors.

The real talks aren't between the Taliban and the US but its between the MIC and those that are tired of the war and foolish spending. Its in Washington, not Qatar.

[khushal]

These are just rumors from insiders who are involved in the talks. I seriously doubt we will ever know what is agreed upon even after the deal is sealed. I doubt the US military will ever truly leave the country completely. They may use ambiguous language to describe them like “trainers” or some bs like that. They have seemingly conceded on not being allied with the likes of AQ, never mind that they are non existent in the country in 2019 and barely there in 2001 but it’s a symbolic conceding of something they publicly didn’t budge on in 2001 even though behind the scenes they wanted nothing to do with AQ war on America.

Your towing the media line and not the facts. So far most reports are saying that they have agreed that no attacks on the West would originate from Afghan soil, they had agreed to this before 911 so this is really no change. When the attacks happened, they asked for evidence that those attacks originated from Afghan soil. The FBI never charged OBL for the 911 attacks hence no evidence.

The ones fighting for peace are trying to sell this as a win by portraying the Taliban has changed therefore defeated but the reality is they haven't really changed their policy. The reality is the US has failed in creating a viable Afghan gov by partnering with the most corrupt and criminal elements of the Afghan society. These talks are proof that they are now realizing this reality.

[randolph85]

The US is going. Give up on this idea popular with "in denial" Kabul regime supporters that they will never leave.

Because if that was even remotely true, Taliban would have never sat for talks, and you know that

Like Syria? Lol even when the US leaves, they leave a footprint.

Your veneration of the Taliban as the safeguards of Afghanistan’s interests and Islam is naive.

[randolph85]

Your towing the media line and not the facts. So far most reports are saying that they have agreed that no attacks on the West would originate from Afghan soil, they had agreed to this before 911 so this is really no change. When the attacks happened, they asked for evidence that those attacks originated from Afghan soil. The FBI never charged OBL for the 911 attacks hence no evidence.

The ones fighting for peace are trying to sell this as a win by portraying the Taliban has changed therefore defeated but the reality is they haven't really changed their policy. The reality is the US has failed in creating a viable Afghan gov by partnering with the most corrupt and criminal elements of the Afghan society. These talks are proof that they are now realizing this reality.

Do you think the US will really take the Talibans word on no attacks originating from the country just like that with no shady guarantees? If these talks and terms were as simple as you and Insight seem to think, this wouldn’t be the 5th or 6th round with the last one lasting 2 weeks.

If the Taliban agreed to no attacks from Afg soil taking place prior to 9/11 well then obviously they didn’t keep their end of the bargain. Let’s not get into if 9/11 was perpetrated by AQ or not. The denials are by the idiotic Alex Jones and Iranian regime types. It was AQ, it happened and denying this is stupid.

Ironically, the Taliban are more willing to talk to the Karzais, Mohaqiqs, Attas, Ismail Khans, in Moscow In friendly terms than the govt. The corrupt and criminal elements of past rather than the significantly less corrupt and criminal in power now.


This is the problem with Afghans. Attaching themselves to a legitimate movement because of its goals but not willing to criticize it because subconsciously they think their criticisms will discredit the movements legit aim. In the Talibans case, the freedom of foreign occupation. Just because they are one of the only groups fighting for it, there is no reason to feel attached and follow the party line. Why not follow deash while we’re at it.