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Tajikistan's close by history: Why won't the Insurgents Work with Kabul?

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  • Tajikistan's close by history: Why won't the Insurgents Work with Kabul?

    Recent events in Egypt show that when Islamic movements collaborate with a central government/outside power supplied military that the citizens that compromise or work within the system often end up in jail or dead. Muhammad Morsi might provide some good personal commentary on that.

    I have no idea if the insurgents understand the arc of history or if their handlers/leadership are relying purely on instinct and the stubborn Pashtun proclivity to not give in. If it is history that they are turning to, then the following might be (should be?) what drives their concerns if they accept Kabul's overtures:

    We can see that when Najib Ahmadzai was in power, (I recall in my youth) that he attempted a similar salvage of his governance. He began to speak in Islamic language and quote the Quran and Hadith in his speeches. Government scholars began to issue proclamations to counter the message of Azzam. At the same time, he was reaching out to foreign powers including the West that backed his adversaries in preserved letters that sought help to repeat another attempt to crush his religious internal resistance that would threaten them eventually. He did himself a major injustice by ignoring the true underlying cause of why that would happen. Najib's modern supporters attempt to claim he was prescient and somehow was so smart he knew the future was bleak. The reality was that he was one of many autocrats that understood the power of religious movements and their relationships to insurgencies in the Islamic world. He was smart enough to understand that BOTH Russian and Western inoculation/interventionalism in the Muslim world were the true fuel for these movements. In any case, he was attempting to lull them into a period of respite so his government (which was on life support) could recover a little bit and then resume another attempt to implement the Marxist social program.


    Local governments have provided simulations/historical precedent for these sorts of insurgencies to not trust a central government that is backed by one of the outside major powers.

    This is the story of Abdulhalim Nazarzada:
    Death Of A Fugitive: Abduhalim Nazarzoda, Tajik General Blamed For Recent Violence


    When Tajikistan was dealing with its own Islamic insurgency of sorts, General Nazarzada was a figure that movement which decided to work with the government in a way that is proposed by the Kabul government.

    Nazarzoda joined the Defense Ministry in 1997, after the government signed a power-sharing deal with the Islamist-led opposition that ended the five-year civil war.
    Here is a bit more detail:

    Some likened Nazarzoda to Halimov, who criticized Rahmon's crackdown on Islamic practices on videos posted on YouTube.

    Nazarzoda, however, was not seen as a particularly religious person, although he performed a Hajj pilgrimage in the early 1990s, a trip that earned him a nickname, Hoji Halim.
    Those who doubt he had a motive ask what he stood to gain by attacking a rural police headquarters if he was unhappy with the government's policies on religion.
    Another article here:
    Tajikistan’s Government Uses Recent Violence to Neutralize Opposition - Jamestown

    Gives more detail about how the sequence of true events actually seems to be

    1) Islamic insurgents were lured into a power sharing arrangement/government peace initiative ---> 2) In the back ground plans were going on to disarm and then eventually neutralize this group which had been operational since the 1990s and did not have Saudi links or any of the usual nonsense spewed at these local/internal movements who were truly chafing against Russian backed/US interest laden autocrats attempting to remove Islam out of the lexicon of their nation state ---->3) They launched false claims against the general --->4 ) pretext was used to kill him.

    Here is some more evidence to buttress that:

    Given the IRPT’s stated commitment to a multi-party system and gradualist approach to reform in Tajikistan, the accusations of the party’s involvement in the early-September armed attacks are difficult to justify; and the regime has changed its story a number of times. President Rahmon initially labeled Major-General Nazarzoda an “Islamic State sympathizer,” who tried to lead a coup against the government (Nezavisimaya Gazeta, September 7). Although Tajikistani officials highlighted Nazarzoda’s civil war–era membership in the party (which was then a key coalition member of the United Tajik Opposition), they only formally accused the IRPT of involvement in the September 4 attacks after having neutralized Nazarzoda and his ability to offer a different story.
    And

    Instead of posing a real threat to the regime, the September attacks offered an opportunity to remove a potentially disloyal commander and to completely eliminate the country’s leading opposition party. Nazarzoda was one of the last remaining United Tajik Opposition commanders in government. The 1997 peace deal allocated 30 percent of government posts to the opposition. But since then, the regime has arrested, killed and exiled most of these former commanders. Therefore, rather than plots by outside forces, struggles within the Tajikistani state itself ultimately caused the recent outbreak of violence in this Central Asian republic.

    And

    Nazarzoda’s defection legitimized the regime’s final move to eliminate the IRPT.
    So in summary, historical motivations exist in abundance that may explain why the insurgents refuse to work with the Kabul government. They pretty much boil down to

    1) Whenever these groups work within western frameworks and paradigms attempts are made to kill, maim, discredit, jail or murder their members (ala Egypt, multiple coups in Turkey until Erdogen neutralized these internal forces, and the close by regional example of Tajikistan and other Istan states above.

    2) The Kabul government if pretty much following Najib's and Tajikistan's President' Rahmon's playbook in attempting to coax the ally toward the bargaining table. In English there is a misaal of sorts "Welcome to my parlor said the Spider to the Fly." And the context of the aforementioned history may have nudged older members of the insurgency to view Kabul's invitations in these ways.

    Afghanistan certainly is a different environment than these other cited regions where religion intersects the lives of nearly every party. The joke in my father's day was that all the fighting parties, Marxists, Royalists, Insurgents etc would all briefly put down their weapons for the prayer and then resume their fight right afterwards. It could very well be that forces like Mojadidi/Sayyaf and others would never allow a situation like that implemented by General Sisi in Egypt, coup planners in Turkey, or President Rahmon in Tajikistan. To that end though, the insurgents may say that these potentially sympathetic players have little to no power and have proven that when outside/world pressure was applied internal independence was compromised in multiple instances. This may also explain why they have stated that they will in no uncertain terms have negotiations with the Kabul government since it requires outside force to stand up but that they prefer to talk to the "hidden hand" or the "true power behind the throne."
    Last edited by BarakzaiAbdali; 07-15-2018, 09:30 PM.
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

  • #2
    I don't know about other Pashtun areas since many here say I make things up but in the region where I am from when there is a conflict or dispute between different families or different parties. We only talk directly to the head person of the family or party, we don't talk to any reps of the family or party. We do this because we don't recognize the rep as a real power or a real decision maker. Sitting down with small potatoes means we are small potatoes. Pashtuns will never accept the status of small potatoes no matter how poor we are.

    The Taliban demand is to talk directly to the US rather than the rep or in their words the puppet of the US(afghan gov). If they talk to the reps or some hired people of the US, in the Pashtun mindset, this means they are small potatoes or insignificant, it is a spit in the face. The demand to only have direct talks with the US is telling the US, that they are as independent or significant as the US is. Their message is either recognize this or there will be a problem where you will be forced to recognize it. This is according to Pashtun culture, the Pashtun culture where I am from anyways.


    This is why I have been saying from the beginning that the Taliban will never sit with the so called Afghan gov. Many people here don't understand Pashtun culture.

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    • #3
      Good post. As much as some would try to pretend otherwise, the Taliban leaders aren't stupid or naive. They've lived through multiple invasions, fought in civil wars, seen overly trusting Muslim leaders elsewhere betrayed, been betrayed themselves by Pakistan, etc. They know very well that their adversary is the US, and that peace (or at least the next phase of war in Afghanistan) will only be achieved through a US withdrawal.

      Why would they accept a governmental structure that has been built over almost two decades by their enemies to weaken and eventually defeat them? As if "political recognition" isn't an extremely fluid concept. Just look at Dostum. He went from Ghani's Vice President, to having to seek refuge in Turkey for over a year, to back in Afghanistan because his supporters protested and rioted long enough. If one of America's best dogs (who had one of the highest "legitimate" positions in the puppet regime) couldn't guarantee his own safety in Afghanistan, how could any Talib elder feel safe just because Ghani, an extremely weak leader, says so?

      What the "peace efforts" really amount to is a demand for the Taliban to accept defeat. Which is extremely odd given that they've been slowly winning back territory ever since being toppled.

      The real story behind this big push for peace is that Trump's generals realize that his patience for the war is extremely thin, and they're desperate for a face-saving settlement before Trump decides to just give up. The generals were perfectly happy pushing for an endless war that they could profit and gain accolades from, but now that they realize that Trump might give up without any settlement, they fear that they'll be labelled losers like the generals that headed the Vietnam/Korean wars.

      Originally posted by khushal View Post
      I don't know about other Pashtun areas since many here say I make things up but in the region where I am from when there is a conflict or dispute between different families or different parties. We only talk directly to the head person of the family or party, we don't talk to any reps of the family or party. We do this because we don't recognize the rep as a real power or a real decision maker. Sitting down with small potatoes means we are small potatoes. Pashtuns will never accept the status of small potatoes no matter how poor we are.
      Most Pashtuns in the West/Internet are city folk (where Pashtuns don't practice their culture as strongly) that know our culture more through legends and books written by the British than practically living it. So they may not understand that "Pashtunwali" isn't some strict code of chivalry passed down through a written manual, but rather a living, dynamic culture without stringent codification. So when you explain something that doesn't match what the Kabuli/Peshawari nationalists or British claim (which is quite likely as our tribe is one that was not given much attention by the British or early nationalists), they'll think you're making it up.
      Last edited by maneatinglizard; 07-23-2018, 09:27 PM.

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      • #4
        The Tajikistani government should be sweating right now. If the Taliban win any perceived victory in Afghanistan, they'll likely be the first ones to see a reinvigorated Muslim uprising against them.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by maneatinglizard View Post
          The Tajikistani government should be sweating right now. If the Taliban win any perceived victory in Afghanistan, they'll likely be the first ones to see a reinvigorated Muslim uprising against them.
          True. Check this out:

          Russia, Tajikistan hold anti-Taliban joint military exercises with over 1, troops near Afghanistan border - Firstpost

          IMO Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Pakistan should be very worried. If Taliban win in Afghanistan it will boost Islamism all over the region. I am 100% sure that Russia will be forced to get involved in the Afghan conflict sooner or later. Putin has wasted a lot of money, soldiers and resources in an endless and secondary war like Syria. The real threat comes from Afghanistan. I do not think Russia will be able to keep so many fronts open: Ukraine, Syria and Central Asia. Russian Federation will fall apart in a matter of few decades.

          Interesting times ahead.
          "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
          I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

          -Ferdowsi.

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