The End of the Western Alliance

[Firdousi]

Opinion | Trump Tries to Destroy the West - The New York Times

Trump Attends G-7 with Defiance, Proposing to Readmit Russia - The New York Times

Europe Ponders New World Order as Trans-Atlantic Ties Fray - WSJ

I have decided to start a new thread and not include this articles in the "articles thread" because I believe we are approaching a critical moment in history. At this point I believe the Atlantic Alliance is on the verge of collapse. There is a growing anxiety here in Europe. People are starting to realize that USA will not protect them anymore and that Europe must man up and grow a pair asap. Europeans have no stomach for that. Good life makes people weak and living under the American umbrella was so great and comfortable.

But those times are coming to an end. Europe must now to take care of himself but this comes at a very bad moment. The populist wave refuses to leave. European countries are involved in deed social and political polarization. The SPanish government collapsed last week. Italy was taken over by Euro-sceptic. Merkel and Macron are weak. Brexit. And Turkey and Russia are at the gates, making trouble.

I said this before and I believe its time to repeat it once again: we are approaching our 1914. In that year the Pax Brittanica ended. 2O18-9 will be the year when the Pax Americana will collapse for good. Its a turning point for all of us. 2001, 2003, 2008, 2011 and 2016 were critical years. 2019 will be the year the effects of the Great Divergence come to an end. Western hegemony is over and this is not a good thing for its now the age of the monsters. We should embrace for impact.

[khushal]

Its more like Trump tries to destroy the liberal order in the West. But this was inevitable as the US gets tired of paying for everything. Trump is trying to tell the Europeans to man up and start paying.

[Firdousi]

Its more like Trump tries to destroy the liberal order in the West. But this was inevitable as the US gets tired of paying for everything. Trump is trying to tell the Europeans to man up and start paying.

Western hegemony revolves around the Liberal Order, that benefits Western nations. It´s true that non Western countries benefited from Globalization but in general Westerners can not complain about it. By destroying it, Trump is also destroying the foundations of the Western alliance.

Trump is right. South Korea, for example has an economy like 200 times stronger than North Korea and its population its like three times larger. Still they have a smaller army than NK. Its unacceptable. All these freeloaders (SK, KSA, Israel, Europe,..) were having the best life under the American umbrella. Thats over.

I think the thing here is that American elite and European elite´s interest are not aligned anymore. They have no common interests anymore. Europe is scared of Russia but Trump has no beef with Putin and most of his current anti-Russian measures were imposed on him by the Liberal establishment. Trump is trying to accelerate Obama´s policy of regional withdrawing: he wants KSA, Israel and other regional countries to play a more important role in Syria and Iraq. Also his current meetings with NK are aimed at withdrawing from there. This wont happen, honestly speaking. Obama started this "pivot to Asia" strategy that Trump wants to reverte now. But the Far East is too important. USA will withdraw from the ME but will not from the Far East. If Trump does not change his stance, the next American president will for sure.

[khushal]

The foundation of the western alliance is its trading pacts. Trump is right that the trading pacts are bad deal for US. The US is paying for everything. Europe, Canada, South Korea and Japan have free medical and higher education not to mention long relaxed paid vacations and shorter work week for its citizens while US taxpayers work 40+ hours week are paying for their defense. Big Pharma are making more profit from US taxpayers with no price ceilings while they sell cheap to other countries who enforce price ceilings.

Its not Trump that is destroying the Western alliance, Trump is just a reaction to policies that have been introduced by the liberal order. The liberal order is self destructive.

[Firdousi]

The foundation of the western alliance is its trading pacts. Trump is right that the trading pacts are bad deal for US. The US is paying for everything. Europe, Canada, South Korea and Japan have free medical and higher education not to mention long relaxed paid vacations and shorter work week for its citizens while US taxpayers work 40+ hours week are paying for their defense. Big Pharma are making more profit from US taxpayers with no price ceilings while they sell cheap to other countries who enforce price ceilings.

Its not Trump that is destroying the Western alliance, Trump is just a reaction to policies that have been introduced by the liberal order. The liberal order is self destructive.

Thats partially true. Trump is a fool. Yes, its true that USA´s allies are a bunch of decadent freeloaders, but thats a quite simpleton way to look at things.

First off, there is a trade imbalance for USA is a ultracapitalist country, which entire economy, politics and "culture" revolves around consumption. Not even a giant like the USA can produce everything so your country imports stuff from oversees.

Secondly, quality. European countries make some of the best products in the world. Perhaps the USA should produce better quality stuff.

Thirdly, China and Europe are USA´s main debt buyers. Without their money and with your rampant debt, your country would be unable to self-finance itself. First step toward bankruptcy.

Fourth, Trump makes some good points. EU imposes high tariffs on American products such as American cars, etc.

Fifth, nothing stops you from adopting a more "social" economic system. Unfortunately its the American stupidity that its working against the USA. Most of Americans consider free healthcare, or holidays as "socialist traits".

Sixth, you should stop blaming Europe for USA´s shortcomings. You want a better system? Great. Cut your military budget. Your country spends more money in arms than the next 8 countries COMBINED. Instead of that, Trump has increased the military budget. Stop waging endless and stupid losing wars against Muslim countries. You will save a lot of money.

[Firdousi]

I believe the problem here is not Trump. Trump is just a side effect of all the stupidity, corruption and double standards that drives the USA. The problem here is the USA itself. Its a failure as a country, as a national project.

The USA its a capitalist experiment. People fool themselves because the American military, economy and pseudo-popular culture is unparalleled. But those things are coming to an end. The USA lacks of essence. Has no proper culture, no identity, no proper set of values, absolutely nothing. In the USA, bad behavior, bad manners, is widespread. Its a failure of a country. No matter what, no matter how much Trump or any other ruler tries, USA as a country has no future.