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  • Afghanistan as South Asia

    Afghanistan as South Asia

    It is becoming clear that Afghanistan is increasingly an integral part of South Asia. It may not feature in the “official” categorisation of South Asian states (Bangladesh, Bhutan, Maldives, Nepal, India, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka), but it impacts the two most important states of the region, Pakistan and India. There is no question of sorting out Pakistan and India’s issues with each other without the country featuring somehow in the discussion. The Cold War in Afghanistan and the US War on Terror have made sure of that.

    This is an odd question of geographical re-categorisation. Since Afghanistan has been made part of the SAARC organisation, and the US mashes up security policy for Pakistan and Afghanistan, should journalists and academics not study the country as a South Asian one?

    Realistically, Afghan way of dress and social interaction can only be described as being dominantly Afghan rather than anything else. Afghans are their own category and probably won’t feel compelled to associate strongly with such groupings. Though the thrust of culture may be Central Asian, its future survival will always be tied to South Asia.

    Traditionally, Afghanistan is considered Central Asian, then Middle Eastern, then South Asian. The Middle Eastern categorisation makes little sense and is probably the result of Western ignorance. Additionally Afghanistan’s Persian link, to Iran and beyond, has no real impact on the Middle East, and Central Asian and South Asian cultural practices and ethnic links dominate. The dominant languages are Persian, Pashtu, Uzbeki and Turkmen. In 1991, the Central Asian states of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan (along with Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan farther north) became independent states with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Afghanistan was never a part of the Soviet States and thus has a divergent history from Central Asian states.

    Additionally, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan share borders with Afghanistan that collectively span more than 2,000 kilometers (about 1,240 miles). The Afghan border with Tajikistan, along the eastern edge of Afghanistan, makes up more than half of that distance. This border is mountainous and poorly demarcated, and the topography of Afghanistan’s frontiers with Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan is largely deserted. The Durand Line in contrast has been must more important and controversial as the ribbon that divided a common ethnicity. The sheer resistance on the part of Afghans to truly accept the Durand line also points to the fact that either northern Pakistani populations can be considered “Central Asian” (which is a bit of a stretch), or that these Afghan and Pashtun communities are truly South Asian (a shorter stretch). This is not too much of a reclassification. The region has such diversity in it already, that adding more geographical and ethnic diversity to the mix does not feel out of place and there is a history of pre-colonial empires in Afghanistan that have stretch into the sub-continent, interacted with local Muslim rulers (whether it was fighting with them, or allying with them).

    The point of this discussion about where to fit Afghanistan is to formally integrate Afghanistan into the way we think about South Asian security so that policy routes can be better anticipated. There has been widespread discomposure in Pakistan over the fact that India is becoming a major security and trading partner with Afghanistan, even though Pakistan has been hosting refugees and stands as America’s punching bag to distract the US from its own failures in Afghanistan. It is not enough to study the South Asia as one unit, academically or otherwise. Security is Pakistan’s major concern, and most scholarship on South Asian international relations has to do with the problem of security. This is the first place where researchers must do away with distinctions, and fully incorporate Afghanistan into their research. We will soon come to find, that even the Kashmir issue can’t be discussed without acknowledging the US-India and India-Afghan nexus that encircles Pakistan and reduces its foreign policy options.

    This may seem just an academic discussion, but in the real world, may policy makers have come to realise that labels matter. If Afghanistan is South Asian, the corollary is that it is geographically and culturally more closely associated with Pakistan. If it is Central Asian, it is almost a different species we don’t really know or understand. We need Afghanistan to feel the historic association. We need to clarify that Indian proliferation in the country will only antagonise communities in Pakistan that have centuries of shared history. India opens the Afghan people to a future of religious conflict with a power that many will see as the Indian coloniser, rather than a benevolent force, as the current Afghan current government is trying to portray. The invasion is happening without India having to fire a shot, aided by capitalism and effective propaganda against Pakistan.

    Pakistan opens Afghanistan to the CPEC and to China, leading it back to Central Asian warmth. India only promises extraction and trade deficits. Afghanistan should learn from Pakistan’s mistake with the US, and think of its territorial integrity before it give into Indian plans. Afghanistan’s future is South Asian, as it is this neighborhood and its international allegiances that most impact the country and its survival.
    "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
    I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

    -Ferdowsi.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Firdousi View Post
    Afghanistan as South Asia

    It is becoming clear that Afghanistan is increasingly an integral part of South Asia. It may not feature in the “official” categorisation of South Asian states (Bangladesh, Bhutan, Maldives, Nepal, India, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka), but it impacts the two most important states of the region, Pakistan and India. There is no question of sorting out Pakistan and India’s issues with each other without the country featuring somehow in the discussion. The Cold War in Afghanistan and the US War on Terror have made sure of that.

    This is an odd question of geographical re-categorisation. Since Afghanistan has been made part of the SAARC organisation, and the US mashes up security policy for Pakistan and Afghanistan, should journalists and academics not study the country as a South Asian one?

    Realistically, Afghan way of dress and social interaction can only be described as being dominantly Afghan rather than anything else. Afghans are their own category and probably won’t feel compelled to associate strongly with such groupings. Though the thrust of culture may be Central Asian, its future survival will always be tied to South Asia.

    Traditionally, Afghanistan is considered Central Asian, then Middle Eastern, then South Asian. The Middle Eastern categorisation makes little sense and is probably the result of Western ignorance. Additionally Afghanistan’s Persian link, to Iran and beyond, has no real impact on the Middle East, and Central Asian and South Asian cultural practices and ethnic links dominate. The dominant languages are Persian, Pashtu, Uzbeki and Turkmen. In 1991, the Central Asian states of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan (along with Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan farther north) became independent states with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Afghanistan was never a part of the Soviet States and thus has a divergent history from Central Asian states.

    Additionally, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan share borders with Afghanistan that collectively span more than 2,000 kilometers (about 1,240 miles). The Afghan border with Tajikistan, along the eastern edge of Afghanistan, makes up more than half of that distance. This border is mountainous and poorly demarcated, and the topography of Afghanistan’s frontiers with Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan is largely deserted. The Durand Line in contrast has been must more important and controversial as the ribbon that divided a common ethnicity. The sheer resistance on the part of Afghans to truly accept the Durand line also points to the fact that either northern Pakistani populations can be considered “Central Asian” (which is a bit of a stretch), or that these Afghan and Pashtun communities are truly South Asian (a shorter stretch). This is not too much of a reclassification. The region has such diversity in it already, that adding more geographical and ethnic diversity to the mix does not feel out of place and there is a history of pre-colonial empires in Afghanistan that have stretch into the sub-continent, interacted with local Muslim rulers (whether it was fighting with them, or allying with them).

    The point of this discussion about where to fit Afghanistan is to formally integrate Afghanistan into the way we think about South Asian security so that policy routes can be better anticipated. There has been widespread discomposure in Pakistan over the fact that India is becoming a major security and trading partner with Afghanistan, even though Pakistan has been hosting refugees and stands as America’s punching bag to distract the US from its own failures in Afghanistan. It is not enough to study the South Asia as one unit, academically or otherwise. Security is Pakistan’s major concern, and most scholarship on South Asian international relations has to do with the problem of security. This is the first place where researchers must do away with distinctions, and fully incorporate Afghanistan into their research. We will soon come to find, that even the Kashmir issue can’t be discussed without acknowledging the US-India and India-Afghan nexus that encircles Pakistan and reduces its foreign policy options.

    This may seem just an academic discussion, but in the real world, may policy makers have come to realise that labels matter. If Afghanistan is South Asian, the corollary is that it is geographically and culturally more closely associated with Pakistan. If it is Central Asian, it is almost a different species we don’t really know or understand. We need Afghanistan to feel the historic association. We need to clarify that Indian proliferation in the country will only antagonise communities in Pakistan that have centuries of shared history. India opens the Afghan people to a future of religious conflict with a power that many will see as the Indian coloniser, rather than a benevolent force, as the current Afghan current government is trying to portray. The invasion is happening without India having to fire a shot, aided by capitalism and effective propaganda against Pakistan.

    Pakistan opens Afghanistan to the CPEC and to China, leading it back to Central Asian warmth. India only promises extraction and trade deficits. Afghanistan should learn from Pakistan’s mistake with the US, and think of its territorial integrity before it give into Indian plans. Afghanistan’s future is South Asian, as it is this neighborhood and its international allegiances that most impact the country and its survival.

    Ok, this article triggered me and p*ssed me off lol. Its one of the dumbest things I have ever read.

    First off, Afghanistan is not increasingly becoming a part of South Asia. Its actually the other way around. The Indification of Afghanistan has been stopped and actually has been reverted to a huge degree. Before the arrival of USA, Afghanistan relied on Pakistan for everything. Nowadays thats over. Nor Pakistan neither India are our major trade partners (Iran became first a year ago). Afghans were addicted to Indian food, movies and clothes. Now they dont are much. Actually they even hate it to a degree and most of urban Afghans instead watching Bollywood movies have shifted to Indian and Turkish dramas. Even the regional projects that Afg is right now involved in are with Central Asian and ME countries. So we are not tied to SA at all.

    Secondly this article is kinda pro-Pakistani. I mean only a m*ron could consider that the current Pakistani dependency on China is something positive. China is a way more dangerous, greedy and untrustworthy ally than the USA. CPEC is a fraud that will harm Pakistan badly. We should stay away.

    So no our future does not lie in South Asia. We dont want to have nothing to do with South Asians (no offense to our Muslim brothers in there, but not matter religion we are not the same except for the Iranic people living in Western Pakistan). Desis should stop claiming our country as their own.
    "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
    I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

    -Ferdowsi.

    Comment


    • #3
      Apus on the internet claim Afghanistan as part of some greater India, Pakistanis don't claim Afghanistan, partion of 1947 was a great thing Imagine How much more Indic influence There would be in Afghanistan if it shared a border with India rather than Pakistan.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Kakar-Wardak View Post
        Apus on the internet claim Afghanistan as part of some greater India, Pakistanis don't claim Afghanistan, partion of 1947 was a great thing Imagine How much more Indic influence There would be in Afghanistan if it shared a border with India rather than Pakistan.
        Partition might be good for Afghanistan but it was definitely not good for Muslims. Muslims now are split between three separated entities while Hindus are all in the same country.

        BTW Pakis dont claim Afghanistan but they have this weird and absurd fetish about being Afghans. They want always to relate themselves to us and other ME and CA countries. We should acknowledge our ties and history.. but we are not the same people.
        "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
        I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

        -Ferdowsi.

        Comment


        • #5
          Turkish dramas?

          I mean, i get the switch from bollywood to indian dramas but turkish?

          Are they worth the time watching?

          Comment


          • #6
            Partition was not good for Afghanistan. Afghanistan was the main victim of Partition because partition deleveraged Afghanistan's influence as the deal maker of trade between Central Asia and South Asia. Pakistan stole that role. Abdur Rahman in his autobiography envisioned that the Brits creating a nation between his and Hindustan would be a troublesome nation for his people, that it would take away any leverage and influence Afghanistan had in the region. This was the main reason that Afghanistan refused to accept partition ie Pakistan.

            Afghanistan is vital to economic prosperity for Central Asia and South Asia. The current Afghan State and Pakistan State in conflict with one another deleverages any potential wealth that could be created for the region thereby relying and depending on real sovereign masters rather than be sovereign masters themselves.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jama0112 View Post
              Turkish dramas?

              I mean, i get the switch from bollywood to indian dramas but turkish?

              Are they worth the time watching?
              Bollywood and Indian are the same thing so you cant switch from one to the other.

              Turkish dramas are the most popular in Kabul. I don't know if Peshawaris watch it but Afghans in Peshawar mostly watch Turkish dramas.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by khushal View Post
                Partition was not good for Afghanistan. Afghanistan was the main victim of Partition because partition deleveraged Afghanistan's influence as the deal maker of trade between Central Asia and South Asia. Pakistan stole that role. Abdur Rahman in his autobiography envisioned that the Brits creating a nation between his and Hindustan would be a troublesome nation for his people, that it would take away any leverage and influence Afghanistan had in the region. This was the main reason that Afghanistan refused to accept partition ie Pakistan.

                Afghanistan is vital to economic prosperity for Central Asia and South Asia. The current Afghan State and Pakistan State in conflict with one another deleverages any potential wealth that could be created for the region thereby relying and depending on real sovereign masters rather than be sovereign masters themselves.
                Check this out:

                Opinion | India’s Muslims and the Price of Partition - The New York Times

                Partition harmed Muslims badly. If they were now an united country, Muslims would make up +600 million Indians while Hindus would be 800 million. Our people would not be in danger like they are right now in India under Modi´s rule.
                "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
                I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

                -Ferdowsi.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Firdousi View Post
                  Check this out:

                  Opinion | India’s Muslims and the Price of Partition - The New York Times

                  Partition harmed Muslims badly. If they were now an united country, Muslims would make up +600 million Indians while Hindus would be 800 million. Our people would not be in danger like they are right now in India under Modi´s rule.
                  If partition did not happen, than definitely India would have broken into Ethnocentric nation states, partition of 47 was on religous lines therefore it ruled out ethno nationalism, but if there was no partition in 47 today there would definitely be dozens of ethnostates in South Asia, partion gave a reason for Hindus to be united, although Hindus did not want partition, this is the gift jinnah gave Hindus in the first time in a melenia jinnah united Hindus Lol.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jama0112 View Post
                    Turkish dramas?

                    I mean, i get the switch from bollywood to indian dramas but turkish?

                    Are they worth the time watching?
                    American ones are the best if you want to watch.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It is the same as Australia, Israel, South Africa in Eurovision....
                      I still think they shouldn't be there, but those countries want to participate.... So fine!
                      But in this case, everything about Afghanistan(minus the Gujar, Sikhs, Hindus) has no ties to South Asia, but these people drag it in with their 2 billion mouths anyway... So arguing with them online is fruitless...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If you include breaking bad and better call saul, then hell yeah.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, to me indian dramas(at least some of them) seems like a less cringy/unwatchable version of bollywood movies, although there's one bllywood movie i enjoyed a little bit though.
                          I don't know if you have watch it yet(i think it's some kind of a family movie, but there's this movie about a mother and her son moving to some huse, where a friendly ghost lives. He becomes the boy's friend. He's played by some famous indian bollywood actor).

                          But back to the indian drama. I just have thought that, because compared to what my mom did watch(i don't feel like she ever really enjoyed them bollywood movies now) back some years ago, she start watching some indian dramas(i remember she also did watch a comedy show and a indian version of "Tonight show starring jimmy fallon", if you can say that. Never knew the english word for a show starring a host and some famous/interesting people. God, i hated it when they mixed up the english words with their indain language). I think they still have this "white and lovely" thing to their dramas, because all the actors over there were pretty atypical, at least in skin color.

                          But the thing about them is, that they don't add those cringe special effects and crappy songs/highschool musical dances and are more serious. You know, every time they say something stupid/gay in bollywood movies(i assume it's stupid. Although i can't speak pahsto properly, it's the language i understand the most next to english and specially danish. Then, that's all i can understand) there's always this gong/weird instrument sound. Or those weird head moves they make...oh my god. I know also remember them fight scenes. Jezz, they where fake and gay.

                          But how did turkish dramas got little big in Kabul? I have heard that before the cold war and maybe little earlier, Turkey supported Afghanistan(maybe not the entire country) and let many afghans, also women, go to school. Could it be because of that?
                          And are turkish dramas any good/worth wathcing them? I did watch some few scenes of turkish movies. They seemed cringe to me as well, specially one of them having a turkish vcopy of superman. But then, they where also old and Turkey is huge. So it could be made by different companies.
                          Last edited by jama0112; 05-16-2018, 04:50 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jama0112 View Post
                            If you include breaking bad and better call saul, then hell yeah.
                            No
                            More like Colony and Mr robot.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Don't know those shows. Gonna check them though.

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