60 Minutes:Kabul under siege; What has America gained in its longest war

[khushal]

Kabul under siege while America's longest war rages on - CBS News

Video in link:

[khushal]

The American General is clearly lying and has no real answers to Ms. Logan's questions. His final answer is that failure in Afghanistan will embolden the "terrorist." Blame that on the stupidity of rejecting the Taliban asking for negotiations and assistance from 96-01. Its too late now, water under the bridge, you can't go back in time. Delaying the inevitable is a waste of lives and resources on all sides.

The American citizen Afghan President admits it is not an independent government and will fall within months without foreign money. It wont be able to pay its army without foreign money which makes the Afghan army by definition a mercenary army. Funding mercenary armies in a gun culture tribal society is very expensive.

[maneatinglizard]

All these idiot generals lie about how great things are going. The good thing is that journalists have finally caught onto them, and always point out how many of their predecessors made the same promises with zero to show for them. Unfortunately, there’s not enough political will in the US to force the generals into giving up their war. I think at this point it’s possible that the puppet government collapses on its own before the US gives up.

The American agenda has been completely foiled in Afghanistan. What Nicholson said about how the US admitting defeat would inspire Jihadis all over the world is totally right, and the US has only itself to blame. There’s no way these wars ever end in an American victory, but they’ve realized that far too late. This is why you don’t start wars against ideas.

[Firdousi]

All these idiot generals lie about how great things are going. The good thing is that journalists have finally caught onto them, and always point out how many of their predecessors made the same promises with zero to show for them. Unfortunately, there’s not enough political will in the US to force the generals into giving up their war. I think at this point it’s possible that the puppet government collapses on its own before the US gives up.

The American agenda has been completely foiled in Afghanistan. What Nicholson said about how the US admitting defeat would inspire Jihadis all over the world is totally right, and the US has only itself to blame. There’s no way these wars ever end in an American victory, but they’ve realized that far too late. This is why you don’t start wars against ideas.

Westerners can not win this "war of ideas" because they are ignorant of the way Islamism works. Even those who are "experts" are utterly ignorant about Islamism.

First off, Western experts and governments tend to make the mistake of believing that Islamic societies are like their own societies. Well, its not. Islamic countries have weak states but their societies are very strong.

Secondly, Westerners don't have enough experience when it comes to dealing with Islamism. They believe its the same than Communism and Nazism. Well, its not. Those ideologies were backed by huge and strong superstates. Once URSS and Hitler´s state collapsed, their ideologies collapsed too. But Islamism is different. Its not backed by any state but deeply rooted among the population. Thats why when the Taliban were defeated they were back after just two years. No matter how much people hate it, but Islamism is proving to be extremely resilient, much more than Communism, Nazism and Western Democratic/Capitalism. Its indeed an ideology to be reckoned with.

Thirdly, Westerners arrogance clouds their judgement. They look down on Islamists, believing they are just a bunch of uneducated crazy inferior goatf^ckers. Well, they are not. At least, not their leaders. Bin Laden, Al Zawahiri, Hekmatyar, Massoud, Rabbani,.. all these guys were quite educated. MassoudsvsHekmatyar hatred started in Kabul´s university. Its pretty well known that the MB managed to create a parallel state in Egypt, mainly founded by doctors, engineers, lawyers, university teachers and intellectuals.

Fourth, Western approach when it comes to these movements is very stupid. They think what motivates Islamists is money, power or ignorance and that by offering them all that they will give up. Thats definitely not true. These people believe in their cause and they are even ready to blame themselves up.

Fifth, West has nothing to offer except materialism and money. Western pop culture, porn industry, feminism, gay rights,.. Islamists deplore these things and no matter what they won't accept them.

Sixth, psyche. Thats in my opinion key in this conflict and thats why I believe Wes can not win this war. Because Islamist psyche works in a different way. Westerners care only about now. Short term plans. Lets invade this country and if four or five years we can't win, we withdraw. Islamists are not like this. They know their struggle will last years, decades, generations, may be even centuries. Western "carp diem" mentality can not understand this kind of commitment.

And last but not least, USA is addicted to war. They just let that go. Trump was the last opportunity for the USA to accept defeat and get out from the IW. Instead of that American generals fooled him to believe that war can be won. Although new strategy has achieved some positive goals (two days ago Paki mullahs declared suicide bombs haram) in general I don't think won't last forever.

Instead of withdrawing USA decided to go down a different path: more war. Obviously this country decided to learn the hard way. USA has decided to kill his empire in endless and impossible to win wars. They are actually playing the Islamist game because this backs up their claim about West bombing Sunni Muslims and also it keeps USA wasting money in failed wars and keep growing in debt.

[jama0112]

Westerners can not win this "war of ideas" because they are ignorant of the way Islamism works. Even those who are "experts" are utterly ignorant about Islamism.

First off, Western experts and governments tend to make the mistake of believing that Islamic societies are like their own societies. Well, its not. Islamic countries have weak states but their societies are very strong.

Secondly, Westerners don't have enough experience when it comes to dealing with Islamism. They believe its the same than Communism and Nazism. Well, its not. Those ideologies were backed by huge and strong superstates. Once URSS and Hitler´s state collapsed, their ideologies collapsed too. But Islamism is different. Its not backed by any state but deeply rooted among the population. Thats why when the Taliban were defeated they were back after just two years. No matter how much people hate it, but Islamism is proving to be extremely resilient, much more than Communism, Nazism and Western Democratic/Capitalism. Its indeed an ideology to be reckoned with.

Thirdly, Westerners arrogance clouds their judgement. They look down on Islamists, believing they are just a bunch of uneducated crazy inferior goatf^ckers. Well, they are not. At least, not their leaders. Bin Laden, Al Zawahiri, Hekmatyar, Massoud, Rabbani,.. all these guys were quite educated. MassoudsvsHekmatyar hatred started in Kabul´s university. Its pretty well known that the MB managed to create a parallel state in Egypt, mainly founded by doctors, engineers, lawyers, university teachers and intellectuals.

Fourth, Western approach when it comes to these movements is very stupid. They think what motivates Islamists is money, power or ignorance and that by offering them all that they will give up. Thats definitely not true. These people believe in their cause and they are even ready to blame themselves up.

Fifth, West has nothing to offer except materialism and money. Western pop culture, porn industry, feminism, gay rights,.. Islamists deplore these things and no matter what they won't accept them.

Sixth, psyche. Thats in my opinion key in this conflict and thats why I believe Wes can not win this war. Because Islamist psyche works in a different way. Westerners care only about now. Short term plans. Lets invade this country and if four or five years we can't win, we withdraw. Islamists are not like this. They know their struggle will last years, decades, generations, may be even centuries. Western "carp diem" mentality can not understand this kind of commitment.

And last but not least, USA is addicted to war. They just let that go. Trump was the last opportunity for the USA to accept defeat and get out from the IW. Instead of that American generals fooled him to believe that war can be won. Although new strategy has achieved some positive goals (two days ago Paki mullahs declared suicide bombs haram) in general I don't think won't last forever.

Instead of withdrawing USA decided to go down a different path: more war. Obviously this country decided to learn the hard way. USA has decided to kill his empire in endless and impossible to win wars. They are actually playing the Islamist game because this backs up their claim about West bombing Sunni Muslims and also it keeps USA wasting money in failed wars and keep growing in debt.

Dude, you should go to anti-islam sites and try to debate with these kind of guys who oppose islam. I would love to see their faces, when you handle their asses to them. If you're actually interested doing that, i have some suggestions, as i once myself opposed islam as well(didn't knew what the **** i did back then though. Hell, i even wanted to become a sikh, not that i have anything against them).

[Firdousi]

Dude, you should go to anti-islam sites and try to debate with these kind of guys who oppose islam. I would love to see their faces, when you handle their asses to them. If you're actually interested doing that, i have some suggestions, as i once myself opposed islam as well(didn't knew what the **** i did back then though. Hell, i even wanted to become a sikh, not that i have anything against them).

Haters are emotional people so you can't logic with them. Its a waste of time. You can engage in debates only with educated and rational people. Exposing their stupidity is fun but won't take me anywhere and just make me frustrated.

Yeah I also considered conversion to Zoroastrism. Not because I believed in that faith but rather out of ethnonationalist fervor. I don't regret it because thanks to that I am what I am now.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

[MENTION=19985]maneatinglizard[/MENTION] I'm starting to suspect another Indic troll ID, may not be Killzai, but definitely not Afghan can you guess which one?

[khushal]

What Nicholson said about how the US admitting defeat would inspire Jihadis all over the world is totally right, and the US has only itself to blame.

Its a replay of Vietnam. The Generals fear that the fall of Kabul would be similar to the fall of Saigon. Back then the argument was the fall of Saigon would lead to a domino effect of other Southeast Asian counties like South Korea, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, etc collapsing under communism.

In reality the whole thing is about directing the US treasury spigot towards the military industry. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that a bunch of guys in sandals and AK's threatening the United States existence is virtually impossible. They may threaten their kleptocratic client regimes but who cares about that, not the average American, that's for sure.

[Sikandar.]

The American General is clearly lying and has no real answers to Ms. Logan's questions. His final answer is that failure in Afghanistan will embolden the "terrorist." Blame that on the stupidity of rejecting the Taliban asking for negotiations and assistance from 96-01. Its too late now, water under the bridge, you can't go back in time. Delaying the inevitable is a waste of lives and resources on all sides.

The American citizen Afghan President admits it is not an independent government and will fall within months without foreign money. It wont be able to pay its army without foreign money which makes the Afghan army by definition a mercenary army. Funding mercenary armies in a gun culture tribal society is very expensive.

This is not a football game that you are expressing your amusement over one team scoring more points than the other. Of all the reactions that an Afghan or a human being could possibly have to something like this, yours is the most worrisome and mortifying.

[Samandri]

This is not a football game that you are expressing your amusement over one team scoring more points than the other. Of all the reactions that an Afghan or a human being could possibly have to something like this, yours is the most worrisome and mortifying.

Newbie, what are you exactly doing? is this some kind of fun activity for you to give "gud" to the members ?

You are also doing this else where , i have only seen you indulged in this type of posting on the foruum