“he lost his mind”: Trump hits back after bannon accuses his son of treason

[Firdousi]

“HE LOST HIS MIND”: TRUMP HITS BACK AFTER BANNON ACCUSES HIS SON OF TREASON
The onetime populist dream team may have suffered a fatal fracture.

“He Lost His Mind”: Trump Hits Back After Bannon Accuses His Son of Treason | Vanity Fair

[Firdousi]

Few weeks ago, while debating with Zulfikar about Islam, nationalism and the West, he made some good points. One of them was that, after studying the Alt-Right movement, he came to the conclusion that the movement at reached his peak. He was right.

The Alt-Right is doomed to fail. Other than hatred, it lacks of proper message, ideology and leaders. Most of his followers and leaders are uneducated or plain stupid. Populist movements in the 30th managed to create extremely sophisticated and complex ideologies such as National-Socialism. This Alt-Right morons are a joke. Just visit Breitbart and it makes you laugh how fool and ill prepared they are.

Lets just compare Alt-Right with Islamist movements such as the Islamic Brotherhood. Rednecks love to look down on Muslims but Islamic movements are way better organized. The IB managed to create a state within the state. Most of their leaders were engineers, physicians, lawyers, university teachers and so on. This pattern is widespread among all Islamist forces: in Afghanistan, both Jamiat and Hezb Islami were founded by university students. Bin Laden was an engineer. Ayman al Zawahiri is a doctor and so on. But unlike Islamists, these rednecks are an utter failure.

[maneatinglizard]

You don't need to be smart to be successful, nor does being smart guarantee success.

Most alt-righters are indeed ignorant and stupid morons, but they've already achieved some huge gains (Trump's presidency, Brexit). The thing about movements like these though, is that they rely on enemies to sustain themselves. Since they're all about anger and deflecting blame onto others, they start to sputter once they're winning. But once liberals make their comeback, these guys will all rally again, and probably become even more extreme.

We're seeing the exact same thing happening on the left, actually. This is the death spiral of Western civilization. Two sides of the same coin that gradually become more and more extreme, and more and more antagonistic towards each other. Eventually things will break down.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

People like Bannon and Spencer are jingoists, they're more about narrative and rhetoric and it's flimsy at that.They thought they could ride along with jargon but they have no realistic construct of how to make things work other than kick out immigrants and post pictures of Pepe the Frog.

[Firdousi]

You don't need to be smart to be successful, nor does being smart guarantee success.

Most alt-righters are indeed ignorant and stupid morons, but they've already achieved some huge gains (Trump's presidency, Brexit). The thing about movements like these though, is that they rely on enemies to sustain themselves. Since they're all about anger and deflecting blame onto others, they start to sputter once they're winning. But once liberals make their comeback, these guys will all rally again, and probably become even more extreme.

We're seeing the exact same thing happening on the left, actually. This is the death spiral of Western civilization. Two sides of the same coin that gradually become more and more extreme, and more and more antagonistic towards each other. Eventually things will break down.

Those gains are temporal. In general are actually bad for the USA and the UK. These guys will destroy their country from within. That will definitely discredit their movement. Yeah stupid people can do a lot of damage, but in their stupidity they will also damage themselves as well.

Social and political polarization are here to stay. This will only grow bigger and bigger and eventually lead to social instability and perhaps even in a civil war.

[Firdousi]

People like Bannon and Spencer are jingoists, they're more about narrative and rhetoric and it's flimsy at that.They thought they could ride along with jargon but they have no realistic construct of how to make things work other than kick out immigrants and post pictures of Pepe the Frog.

Exactly. That was my point: they lack of a proper message, an ideology that can be accepted by most of Westerners as an alternative to Liberalism.

Many Alt-Right "leaders" want the West to go down the path of Hungary and Poland, but I believe this is unrealistic. Those countries were former Soviet republics who turned to Liberalism once URSS collapsed and the Liberal system was the only option left. But they never believed in it so when they realized that Liberalism wouldnt work in their societies they decided to go conservative.

But the USA and Western Europe are strongholds of Liberalism. They are liberal nations by nature. The Alt Right can't just dismiss Liberalism and go conservative. Liberalism is like a religion for many people and thy will put a fight.

[maneatinglizard]

Those gains are temporal. In general are actually bad for the USA and the UK. These guys will destroy their country from within. That will definitely discredit their movement. Yeah stupid people can do a lot of damage, but in their stupidity they will also damage themselves as well.

Social and political polarization are here to stay. This will only grow bigger and bigger and eventually lead to social instability and perhaps even in a civil war.

They're temporary yes, but they're still big wins.

Extreme nationalistic movements will always fail eventually. By their nature, they can't last because they create too many enemies to be sustainable. So just even winning major elections like the US presidency and Brexit are huge wins for alt-righters.

Of course, the end result will be bad for them and the West overall, but they still got what they want.

And even though they lost elections in France and the Netherlands, they've forced everyone to acknowledge them and take them seriously. That's the biggest win in the long run. 2 years ago, people like Steve Bannon and Richard Spencer would've been seen as fringe wackos. No one would've taken them seriously. Now these guys get constant attention in the media.

[maneatinglizard]

But the USA and Western Europe are strongholds of Liberalism. They are liberal nations by nature. The Alt Right can't just dismiss Liberalism and go conservative. Liberalism is like a religion for many people and thy will put a fight.

They will put up a fight. There's a ton of tension in the West right now between these forces. For a while people were holding "rallies" just as an excuse to riot and brawl (funny thing is that it was the conservatives who ended up backing down, despite always acting like tough guys). Things have since cooled down to a simmer, but the underlying causes of unrest aren't gone.

That's what's different now. Liberals didn't like Bush, but it's nothing like what's going on now. There's real hate between the sides now, and nobody's really doing anything to calm things down. If anything, they're actively fanning the flames.

[Firdousi]

They will put up a fight. There's a ton of tension in the West right now between these forces. For a while people were holding "rallies" just as an excuse to riot and brawl (funny thing is that it was the conservatives who ended up backing down, despite always acting like tough guys). Things have since cooled down to a simmer, but the underlying causes of unrest aren't gone.

That's what's different now. Liberals didn't like Bush, but it's nothing like what's going on now. There's real hate between the sides now, and nobody's really doing anything to calm things down. If anything, they're actively fanning the flames.

You live in the USA, right? So you sense more tension around you? I have never been there but for some reason the hatred reaches across the pond. For the first time you see people killing each other over political disputes. Its just the beginning. Here in Europe the mood has changed as well. Since 2011 you can feel how nationalism, hatred, Islamophobia and xenophobia re growing.

Still the victory of Trump was a bit strange. At the beginning it emboldened the far right but once Europeans saw the behavior of Trump and how USA has become almost a pariah state and joke in a matter of few months, Europeans got a bit scared. Thats why Le Pen and Wildeers got their asses whooped. But yeah you are right they still made some huge gains.