What Happened to Honor Code of Taliban?

[ذو الفقار]

Zulfiqar, you must be very dumb person in reaching to a conclusion that Indian Jihadis got slaughtered for not learning Pashto. I mentioned that to give you an idea why they were perceived as foreigners. Imagine if some Pashto speaking Mujahideen had come to Sindh, did not bother to learn Sindhi yet tried to dictate the locals within a short span and forcefully enforced their ideology on them.

The reason he earned the animosity , besides the facts mentioned in previous post, was his night raids on the chieftains and killing them ,who were not siding with him. Keep in mind that the locals did not welcome a foreigner like him to elevate him to the status of Amir-ul-momineen, but because superstitious Pashtuns believed that he was some pir or saintly figure who would work magic against their Sikh foes. But the only battle that Syed Ahmad fought against Sikhs, was a disastrous defeat. Before that he had made a small night raid on Sikh camp which was successful for obvious reasons. His battle , which ended up in defeat, was nothing close to the hard fought battles before him. So he did not leave a very good impression on locals in demonstrating in his military capabilities. He further aggravated the matter by directing his energies and resources to subdue the local chieftains (including the neutral ones)....

Sir, with all due respect, nothing you are telling me is persuading me that Sayyid Ahmad shaheed (rahmatullah alaih) made any blunders. I am supporting him purely from an Islamic perspective. But your remarks are making one thing clear, the Afghans were not very educated. You yourself have said they were superstitious and nothing more. Obviously such people required a strong leadership from an Islamic leader that has knowledge about Islam and will make them into a proper nation under the Islamic laws and practices. We Muslims are a brotherhood, there is no such thing as foreigner among us. Foreigners are the non-Muslims. If some Pashtuns, who were truly following the Islamic way, took over Sindh and began dictating to Sindhis without learning their language, I would not have a problem with that, provided the Pashtuns were dictating according to Islam and the Sindhis were in need of their dictation because the Sindhis were uneducated and ignorant about Islam and were only following superstitions. In such a scenario I would definitely have no problem with the behavior of those Mujahideen.

[marwat]

i do not like the idea of worshiping syed, this cult is widespread in india, exactly the reason people worship graves, tomb and fake pir because they think they are syed. This is exactly against the spirit of islam, all muslim are equal and status is by piety and good actions.
this will give birth to syed elite class, wearing suites, drinking wines and half European bred like that of ismaili

[ذو الفقار]

You will kiss the hands and feets of a Syed ?......this confirms you to be a worshiper of Syeds. Will you kiss the hands and feet of Altaf Hussain of MQM? because he is also a Syed.

Kissing feet is a sign of respect, it is not worship. Some Jewish people kissed the feet of our beloved master Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) and he did not object to it.

Kissing is not an act of worship. If kissing was an act of worship then how will we kiss Allah? Is Allah a physical body that we can kiss Him (Na’udubillah)?

Furthermore, I don't think Altaf is a Sayyid, but even if he was, I said I will kiss the hands and feet of a Sayyid that is a pious person, not just any Sayyid.

[ذو الفقار]

i do not like the idea of worshiping syed, this cult is widespread in india, exactly the reason people worship graves, tomb and fake pir because they think they are syed. This is exactly against the spirit of islam, all muslim are equal and status is by piety and good actions.
this will give birth to syed elite class, wearing suites, drinking wines and half European bred like that of ismaili

Respect is not the same as Worship. We respect Prophets, Angels, parents, elders, Ulama, pious people. So why shouldn't we respect a Sayyid provided he too is pious?

[Samandri]

Sir, with all due respect, nothing you are telling me is persuading me that Sayyid Ahmad shaheed (rahmatullah alaih) made any blunders. I am supporting him purely from an Islamic perspective. But your remarks are making one thing clear, the Afghans were not very educated. You yourself have said they were superstitious and nothing more. Obviously such people required a strong leadership from an Islamic leader that has knowledge about Islam and will make them into a proper nation under the Islamic laws and practices. We Muslims are a brotherhood, there is no such thing as foreigner among us. Foreigners are the non-Muslims. If some Pashtuns, who were truly following the Islamic way, took over Sindh and began dictating to Sindhis without learning their language, I would not have a problem with that, provided the Pashtuns were dictating according to Islam and the Sindhis were in need of their dictation because the Sindhis were uneducated and ignorant about Islam and were only following superstitions. In such a scenario I would definitely have no problem with the behavior of those Mujahideen.

They were superstitious in the sense that they were expecting some miracles (karamat) from him. Your Bareilwi literature is full of such beliefs that saintly men do karamat/miracles.

[ذو الفقار]

They were superstitious in the sense that they were expecting some miracles (karamat) from him. Your Bareilwi literature is full of such beliefs that saintly men do karamat/miracles.

Who said I am Barelwi? You should read my Intro.

Don't confuse Sayyid Ahmad of Rai Bareilly (Rahmatullah alaih) with Ahmad Raza Khan of Bareilly (founder of the Barelwi sect).

But all Sunni Muslims believe in Karamaat (miracles). That is not superstition. Holy Quraan talks about Mu'jizaat of Prophets and Karamaat of Saints.

No one doubts the love and passion Afghans have for Islam. But in modern times the centers of Islamic learning have mostly been in India, because obviously there are more people in India and it is more urban.

[marwat]

Respect is not the same as Worship. We respect Prophets, Angels, parents, elders, Ulama, pious people. So why shouldn't we respect a Sayyid provided he too is pious?

dear zulfiqar what do you think people have worshiped gods throughout history the greek the indian the egyptian almost every civilizations have them. i mean who were they. the most plausible saying is they were just heroic man who becomes legends with times and tales, and people started worshiping them. if alexander the great story was not recorded one but oral , he would also be one among the other god like Zeus and Hercules and many legendary characteristics would have been attributed too him upto now.

when you want to elevate someone to this high status because of the gene he carry, this is not exactly respect but worship, and how is this different than the birth of ethnic nationalism.

syed are not meant to lead us, it was the turk savages who gave islam it's glorious days and brought it to every nook and corner of the world. not syed.

[ذو الفقار]

dear zulfiqar what do you think people have worshiped gods throughout history the greek the indian the egyptian almost every civilizations have them. i mean who were they. the most plausible saying is they were just heroic man who becomes legends with times and tales, and people started worshiping them. if alexander the great story was not recorded one but oral , he would also be one among the other god like Zeus and Hercules and many legendary characteristics would have been attributed too him upto now.

when you want to elevate someone to this high status because of the gene he carry, this is not exactly respect but worship, and how is this different than the birth of ethnic nationalism.

syed are not meant to lead us, it was the turk savages who gave islam it's glorious days and brought it to every nook and corner of the world. not syed.

Respectfully I disagree with you. I look at Islamic history with a much darker lens. Our history is not glorious, it is a tragic history. First we were ruled by Umayyads, then Abbasids, then Turks, Mamluks and Mongols, and finally Europeans, and now we are divided into nation-states. I believe that those Turks and Mongols that conquered us and ruled us were in fact Gog and Magog.

We were meant to be ruled by Ahlul Bait. It is not because of genes, but because that is a sacred family which alone has the respect of all the Muslims due to their piety and connection to our Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم. If you believe in the promise of the expected Mahdi you will know that the Mahdi will be a direct descendant of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم. Every other dynasty and regime has been a total disaster. Thus for me it is ideal that we be governed by a pious saintly person of Ahlul Bait. At present those people govern us who are the most rich, or Western-educated, own the most land or whatever. But Islam says that the standard for governing is piety.

[Samandri]

Zulfiqar, i did not notice your intro, now i have read it. So you are convinced that khilafat and leadership of Muslims should be only in the hands of Syeds (descendants of Hazrat Fatima). This what created the Shias. What about Hazrat Abu Bakar, Hazrat Omar and Hazrat Usman? they were not Syeds and Banu Hashim.

The idea that Syeds are superior human beings even if they are genuine, is non-sense, i reject it. The family of Holy Prophet p.b.u.h who deserved special status , were his daughter and grandsons .......after many generations, or a century or centuries, any Syed is just a person like you and me, not deserving of any special status because of his birth. If a Syed is a pious person and a converted shudra is also a pious person, then also kiss the hands and feet of a converted from shudra caste, if your idea of respecting pious is kissing hands and feet.

Worshiping a prophet is also wrong. They were not meant to be worshiped, they were messengers of Allah. I have read that many nations in ancient times got infected by idolatry because they started worshiping prophets who were sent to them in the past. Centuries after death of a prophet, they would make idols of the Prophets and would worship them with the idea that it would please Allah. They were doing shirk. Later they will even forget that the idols they have been worshiping, were originally of Prophets sent to them in bygone times.

[ذو الفقار]

Zulfiqar, i did not notice your intro, now i have read it. So you are convinced that khilafat and leadership of Muslims should be only in the hands of Syeds (descendants of Hazrat Fatima). This what created the Shias. What about Hazrat Abu Bakar, Hazrat Omar and Hazrat Usman? they were not Syeds and Banu Hashim.

The idea that Syeds are superior human beings even if they are genuine, is non-sense, i reject it. The family of Holy Prophet p.b.u.h who deserved special status , were his daughter and grandsons .......after many generations, or a century or centuries, any Syed is just a person like you and me, not deserving of any special status because of his birth. If a Syed is a pious person and a converted shudra is also a pious person, then also kiss the hands and feet of a converted from shudra caste, if your idea of respecting pious is kissing hands and feet.

Worshiping a prophet is also wrong. They were not meant to be worshiped, they were messengers of Allah. I have read that many nations in ancient times got infected by idolatry because they started worshiping prophets who were sent to them in the past. centuries after death of a prophet, they would make idols of the Prophets and would worship them with the idea that it would please Allah. Later they will even forget that the idols they have been worshiping, were originally of Prophets sent to them in bygone times.

I only agree with the Shi’ite view that Khilafa should have gone to sayyidina ‘Ali (Karam Allah Wajhahu), but I do not dare condemn the Khulafa like sayyidina Abu Bakr and Umar (Radi Allahu anhuma). Allah wanted that Abu Bakr should become the Khalifa and so that is how history played out. I definitely respect Sahaba because of their piety and devotion to the Prophet and their immense services to Islam. Nonetheless, I believe that had the leadership of the Muslim community remained among Ahlul Bait, specifically the progeny of Sayyida Faatima then it would have been much better. This is why such great Imams like Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Malik supported, including financial support, the uprisings of Imam Zayd and Imam Muhammad Nafs-al-Zakiya against the wretched and impious Umayyad and the Abbasid dynasties respectively. Hence you could say that politically I am aligned closely with the Shi’ites though theologically I am Sunni.

Showing respect for someone who is pious but also has a noble lineage is not racism or discrimination. In general I show respect to all pious people, but if someone is pious and also a Sayyid I see nothing wrong with giving that person a little extra respect. Love of Ahlul Bayt is part of our Religion, read Ayat-e-Tatheer in the Holy Qur’an to understand their special designation. This doesn’t mean every sayyid deserves respect, only the one which is pious.

[toughpashtun]

I only agree with the Shi’ite view that Khilafa should have gone to sayyidina ‘Ali (Karam Allah Wajhahu), but I do not dare condemn the Khulafa like sayyidina Abu Bakr and Umar (Radi Allahu anhuma). Allah wanted that Abu Bakr should become the Khalifa and so that is how history played out. I definitely respect Sahaba because of their piety and devotion to the Prophet and their immense services to Islam. Nonetheless, I believe that had the leadership of the Muslim community remained among Ahlul Bait, specifically the progeny of Sayyida Faatima then it would have been much better. This is why such great Imams like Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Malik supported, including financial support, the uprisings of Imam Zayd and Imam Muhammad Nafs-al-Zakiya against the wretched and impious Umayyad and the Abbasid dynasties respectively. Hence you could say that politically I am aligned closely with the Shi’ites though theologically I am Sunni.

Showing respect for someone who is pious but also has a noble lineage is not racism or discrimination. In general I show respect to all pious people, but if someone is pious and also a Sayyid I see nothing wrong with giving that person a little extra respect. Love of Ahlul Bayt is part of our Religion, read Ayat-e-Tatheer in the Holy Qur’an to understand their special designation. This doesn’t mean every sayyid deserves respect, only the one which is pious.

You seem to be quite confused. On one hand you claim to be a Panjpiri , and then you agree with a certain Shia belief. Don't forget that Shias and Panjpiris are poles apart.I would suggest to not take information from any and every source , choose a knowledgable scholar and learn from him.

[toughpashtun]

[MENTION=18842]Samandri[/MENTION] , even though we are Sunnis but we have to respect Syeds because of their noble lineage.
When I say Syed , I only mean Sunni Syeds . The Shia Syeds who have adopted all the filthy heretic views are not worthy of any respect.

[ذو الفقار]

You seem to be quite confused. On one hand you claim to be a Panjpiri , and then you agree with a certain Shia belief. Don't forget that Shias and Panjpiris are poles apart.I would suggest to not take information from any and every source , choose a knowledgable scholar and learn from him.

We Panjpiris are against the grave-worshipers whether Sunni or Shiite makes no difference. But that has nothing to do with this political topic that I prefer Muslims should be ruled by a pious imam of Ahlul Bayt, even today, as opposed to our corrupt and oppressive dictators. I also reject democracy, the nation-state, social welfare state, secularism, liberalism, and all these other foreign un-Islamic ideas.

[Samandri]

This Hindustani Mohajir Zolfiqar, uttering the pious words, is a MQM sympathizer,.......these are the people who have committed worst crimes against Pashtuns in Karachi. I sensed from the get go that some thing is not right with this guy, ;

[ذو الفقار]

This Hindustani Mohajir Zolfiqar, uttering the pious words, is a MQM sympathizer,.......these are the people who have committed worst crimes against Pashtuns in Karachi. I sensed from the get go that some thing is not right with this guy, ;

LOL how do you derive from that quote that I'm a sympathizer? No offense dost but your comprehension of English isn't exactly great.