Afghan Taliban will support Pakistan against foreign aggression: Sami ul haq

[toughpashtun]

a threat is your source. hahaha

In the same manner that a rude phrase was your response to my claim.
Why didn't you put in evidence or a source then?

[toughpashtun]

The guys who attacked military base in Karachi and likewise a few other attacks on major pakistani military installations are said to be students of the same group that conducts attacks in Kabul.

Few years ago, Taliban from tribal area orchestrated several attacks on high profile targets in Kabul. Then the same style attacks were conducted in Pakistan.

When Pakistan cleared some parts of FATA attacks stopped in both Afghanistan and Pakistan.

There was a very specific pattern that stopped once Pakistan invaded and occupied Waziristan during Zarb e Azb.

Can you name any major attack like the one in Intercontinental hotel in Kabul or the attack on NDS since Zarb e Azb?

I've only seen a few weak attempts. Nothing as significant as those previous ones.

1) Assuming that you are right , and that members of one group conducted attacks in both Afghanistan and Pakistan , still does not prove that the official policy of Afghan Taliban is to attack Pakistani targets.There many splinter and breakaway groups who may carry out attacks in both Pakistan and Afghanistan.

2) From what I understand from your post , you are trying to put forward the notion that the Afghan Taliban and Pakistani Taliban(TTP) are linked , so when the Pakistani military conducted Zarb e Azb , it weakened both Afg Taliban as well as TTP , so Taliban attacks stopped(or reduced) in both Pakistan and Afghanistan.
This only proves that the Pakistan army saw the Afghan Taliban as an enemy , so they did not differentiate between 'good' and 'bad' Taliban during Zarb Azb.
And consequentially , this proves that Afghan claims of Pakistani support for Afghan Taliban are false.

As a conclusion , I'll just say that what I have been writing on this topic so far is based on my knowledge , which is not absolute , and my opinions are not stuck in stone and may be wrong.I am willing to change my stance if I can be convinced.
But the method should be that of [MENTION=5381]Shamlawar Khurasani[/MENTION] , using facts and figures and not resorting to indecent comments.

[khushal]

In the same manner that a rude phrase was your response to my claim.
Why didn't you put in evidence or a source then?

I didnt make any claim. Youre the one who made the claim without source, only threats. What are you, 10 years old.

[toughpashtun]

I didnt make any claim. Youre the one who made the claim without source, only threats. What are you, 10 years old.

I made the claim, admittedly without sources.The view which I hold is a very popular one , and you can find a ton of articles on the internet to back it up.
Don't most Afghans blame the Agf Taliban to be Pakistani puppets , who attack Afghan people but not Pakistanis?

In any case , you were the one who then made the inappropriate remark , instead of coming up with a good arguement.That was completely unjustified.

[khushal]

1) Assuming that you are right , and that members of one group conducted attacks in both Afghanistan and Pakistan , still does not prove that the official policy of Afghan Taliban is to attack Pakistani targets.There many splinter and breakaway groups who may carry out attacks in both Pakistan and Afghanistan.

2) From what I understand from your post , you are trying to put forward the notion that the Afghan Taliban and Pakistani Taliban(TTP) are linked , so when the Pakistani military conducted Zarb e Azb , it weakened both Afg Taliban as well as TTP , so Taliban attacks stopped(or reduced) in both Pakistan and Afghanistan.
This only proves that the Pakistan army saw the Afghan Taliban as an enemy , so they did not differentiate between 'good' and 'bad' Taliban during Zarb Azb.
And consequentially , this proves that Afghan claims of Pakistani support for Afghan Taliban are false.

As a conclusion , I'll just say that what I have been writing on this topic so far is based on my knowledge , which is not absolute , and my opinions are not stuck in stone and may be wrong.I am willing to change my stance if I can be convinced.
But the method should be that of [MENTION=5381]Shamlawar Khurasani[/MENTION] , using facts and figures and not resorting to indecent comments.

Shamlawar is an idiot, he has been brainwashed by media instead of actually investigating the facts. There are many major attacks that has happened in both countries after the paki army zarbar bombing on poor civilians in FATA. The zarbar operation to kill civilians started june 14, 2014.
paki list:
A sad timeline of militant attacks in Pakistan - LA Times

Afghanistan has too many to list: This is just the first 6 months of 2015:
Timeline: Taliban attacks in Afghanistan: 215 (January-June) | Mantraya

[khushal]

I made the claim, admittedly without sources.The view which I hold is a very popular one , and you can find a ton of articles on the internet to back it up.

what is popular does not mean it is fact. I cant find any sources at all that back up your claim.

Don't most Afghans blame the Agf Taliban to be Pakistani puppets , who attack Afghan people but not Pakistanis?

Western Afghans and Kabuli Afghans do but since majority of Afghans lack access to electricity and media, they have not been brainwashed by the medias narrative of Afghan insurgent equals panjabi.

In any case , you were the one who then made the inappropriate remark , instead of coming up with a good arguement.That was completely unjustified.

your right, it was unjustified so apologies. its just that people spewing out the false afghan gov and paki gov narrative are cold hearted in my book but I guess some people are just ill informed.

[toughpashtun]

what is popular does not mean it is fact. I cant find any sources at all that back up your claim.

Western Afghans and Kabuli Afghans do but since majority of Afghans lack access to electricity and media, they have not been brainwashed by the medias narrative of Afghan insurgent equals panjabi.



your right, it was unjustified so apologies. its just that people spewing out the false afghan gov and paki gov narrative are cold hearted in my book but I guess some people are just ill informed.

Apology accepted.Please excuse my 'threats' too.
I am not pushing you , and would be willing to close this topic down(if you wish too also) , BUT ,you also have not proven that :
Afg. Taliban supports the attacks on Pakistan that TTP carry out.

Go ahead and provide the evidence/source for this.
Again , I am more than happy to call it a day and just move on.

[khushal]

Apology accepted.Please excuse my 'threats' too.
I am not pushing you , and would be willing to close this topic down(if you wish too also) , BUT ,you also have not proven that :
Afg. Taliban supports the attacks on Pakistan that TTP carry out.

Go ahead and provide the evidence/source for this.
Again , I am more than happy to call it a day and just move on.

https://www.mei.edu/sites/default/files/publications/PF23_WeinbaumBabbar_Haqqani_web_0.pdf

Baitullah Mehsud, the late
T.T.P. leader, and his successor, Hakimullah
Mehsud, fought alongside Jalaluddin in the
Shomali Plains north of Kabul.26 Sources
suggest Jalaluddin may have been Baitullah’s
commander, and thus a close bond
developed between the two; Baitullah later
worked for the H.N.27 The T.T.P. has since
operated in tandem with the H.N. so as
to maximize their output of attacks. The
groups share training camps in which they
disseminate jihadist propaganda to young
recruits.28 These recruits are often shuffled
between the groups—the T.T.P., for example,
is known to send suicide bombers by
way of Loya Paktia.29 The H.N. does not actively
participate in the T.T.P.’s attacks, nor
does it openly collaborate with the group.
It does, however, facilitate the execution of
the T.T.P.’s jihad. This would seem to put
H.N. in an awkward position, as the T.T.P.’s
main adversary is Pakistan’s army, which
also offers the H.N. protection.

Why the Pakistan army can't subdue the TTP - Rediff.com

One of the key reasons for the TTP's survival has been Pakistan's policy of using terrorist groups as instruments of State policy. In this context, the Pakistan army's protection of the Haqqani Network and the Afghan Taliban as 'strategic assets' has helped the TTP to retain its sanctuary and its attack capabilities. The areas dominated by the Haqqani Network and the Afghan Taliban have provided TTP with 'strategic depth.'

Whenever the Pakistan military stepped up its offensive in the tribal areas, the TTP found it convenient to move into the Taliban-controlled areas. There is substantial evidence that the Haqqani Network has also helped the TTP to survive the military onslaught which, in any case, has been selective and hence ineffective. For instance, before launching the current operation, the Haqqanis were alerted and moved to safer locations.

[Firdousi]

Nonsense.

It is not the Afghan government's 'narrative'. It is the facts. The 'narrative' has been consistent for over 20 years. Are you old enough to remember the 1990s? If not, then do not try to dismiss what was known before your birth.

27th September is just a week and a half away. You think anyone forget this day??

Its a fact that the Paki state is a prostitute creature but I believe they got some legit concerns when it comes to Afghanistan. Since the inception of Pakistan Afghanistan has been hostile toward that country. Afghanistan was the last country to recognize Pakistan. Afghanistan refused to accept Pakistan joining UN. Afghanistan killed the first Pakistani Prime Minister, Liaquat Khan. Since 1947 until the 80th´s Afghanistan has been supporting terrorist groups in Pakistan, supporting proxy forces, invading and shelling the tribal areas several times, making trouble and mayhem all the time. And so on.

Well I believe Pakistan got some valid points when it comes to Afghanistan: we are an hostile identity so they will try their best to undermine the Afghan state. Pakistan need to stop being a terrorist state but Afghanistan needs to stop being a pain in the a ss too. Afghanistan started the war with Pakistan and we lost. Now all of us need to change and focus on friendship and cooperation. War and hatred have brought us nothing but misery and pain.

[Firdousi]

Apology accepted.Please excuse my 'threats' too.
I am not pushing you , and would be willing to close this topic down(if you wish too also) , BUT ,you also have not proven that :
Afg. Taliban supports the attacks on Pakistan that TTP carry out.

Go ahead and provide the evidence/source for this.
Again , I am more than happy to call it a day and just move on.

Afghanistan supports BLA and TTP but its more out of desperation. But unlike Paksitan Afghans don't consider those movements as freedom fighters and lions of islam as Pakistanis do with the Afghan Taliban.

Pakistan its by nature a terrorist state. Pakistan loves terrorist movements basically because Pakistan is a proud terrorist state. Thats what makes the Afghan prostitute government different from the Pakistani prostitute establishment.

[toughpashtun]

https://www.mei.edu/sites/default/fi...qani_web_0.pdf


Why the Pakistan army can't subdue the TTP - Rediff.com

Those are some good points.Could be truth in there.Of course , there is possiblity of error in every viewpoint/theory.

[toughpashtun]

Afghanistan supports BLA and TTP but its more out of desperation. But unlike Paksitan Afghans don't consider those movements as freedom fighters and lions of islam as Pakistanis do with the Afghan Taliban.

Pakistan its by nature a terrorist state. Pakistan loves terrorist movements basically because Pakistan is a proud terrorist state. Thats what makes the Afghan prostitute government different from the Pakistani prostitute establishment.

In the end , what is important is that peace prevails.A strong Af-Pak relationship is vital for stability in the region.The Taliban cannot be completely ignored too(as you stated that they enjoy some degree of support too and they are ingrained in Pashtun tribal rural structure).A deal and peace talks would work , imo.

[Friends of Baloch]

Its a fact that the Paki state is a prostitute creature but I believe they got some legit concerns when it comes to Afghanistan. Since the inception of Pakistan Afghanistan has been hostile toward that country. Afghanistan was the last country to recognize Pakistan. Afghanistan refused to accept Pakistan joining UN. Afghanistan killed the first Pakistani Prime Minister, Liaquat Khan. Since 1947 until the 80th´s Afghanistan has been supporting terrorist groups in Pakistan, supporting proxy forces, invading and shelling the tribal areas several times, making trouble and mayhem all the time. And so on.

Well I believe Pakistan got some valid points when it comes to Afghanistan: we are an hostile identity so they will try their best to undermine the Afghan state. Pakistan need to stop being a terrorist state but Afghanistan needs to stop being a pain in the a ss too. Afghanistan started the war with Pakistan and we lost. Now all of us need to change and focus on friendship and cooperation. War and hatred have brought us nothing but misery and pain.

Why shouldnt Afghanistan have been hostile to the creation of Pakiland? That country is fake and was put together belligerently by the British without any serious thought to it. It was a rushed job with no reference or consideration to the future of the Afghan population of British India (so called NWFP) to self determination. Their lot was tossed together with the Indian question that had nothing to do with Afghans and Baloch.

Pakiland's invasions of both Kalat Balochistan and Kashmir within the first couple of years of it's invention also signaled what kind of problem 'country' this was to be for it's neighbours. Letters were even sent to Iran and Afghanistan asking them to "confederate" with Pakiland. Of course, such an absurd idea was quietly shot down and laughed at by the leaders of Iran and Afghanistan.

Afghanistan's previously 'normal' relationship with India was also interrupted by the creation of Pakiland. Instead of showing tact and good neighbourly manners towards Afghanistan by allowing Afghanistan to remain outside of the sh!tty Indo-Paki sibling rivalry that it had nothing to do with, Pakiland has held Afghanistan's relationship with India hostage to this sh!t Paki-India conflict from day 1 by obstructing the trade routes. Obstructing trade routes and holding them hostage to politics is the act of a hostile belligerent, not a civilized neighbour.

[Friends of Baloch]

In the end , what is important is that peace prevails.A strong Af-Pak relationship is vital for stability in the region.The Taliban cannot be completely ignored too(as you stated that they enjoy some degree of support too and they are ingrained in Pashtun tribal rural structure).A deal and peace talks would work , imo.

How are Taliban 'ingrained in Pashtun tribal rural structure' when Taliban is alien to tribal Pashtun society and culture?

You are totally brainwashed by 'Rawalpindi' if you think Taliban is a represenation of Pashtun 'tribal structure'.

To even get a foothold the Taliban had to murder hundreds of khans and maliks all over Pashtunistan and assassinate tribal elders to create chaos and break the traditional social bonds and structures of Pashtuns so that they could come in and fill the vacuum with their way of doing things, which is not traditional to Pashtuns.

This is the exact strategy that Taliban employed in FATA over many years and to very great effect that traditional Pashtun social structures collapsed and elders were subdued by force or just outright murdered.

Taliban suppresses Pashtun culture and traditional society. It is not 'ingrained' in it, lol. It is imposed on it by force, muder and terror.

[khushal]

Those are some good points.Could be truth in there.Of course , there is possiblity of error in every viewpoint/theory.

youre committing an appeal to ignorance fallacy.