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Trump's Favorite New York Daily on Afghanistan

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  • Trump's Favorite New York Daily on Afghanistan

    By an author who is an aggressive Hawk lol

    It’s time to give up on saving*Afghanistan

    In Afghanistan, we’re the Redcoats. And for a substantial portion of the country’s ethnic-Pashtun majority, the Taliban, however cruel and odious we find them, are the Minutemen.

    The stock response you’ll get from any US general is that “the Afghans hate the Taliban.” If that is so, how is it that, after 16 years of US and NATO expenditure of blood and treasure, the ragtag Taliban, backed only by Pakistan, dominate or contest half the country?

    Even our politically correct counterinsurgency doctrine — which has not achieved enduring success anywhere — acknowledges that insurgencies require the support of the population to succeed. Since 2001, the Taliban have faced as many as 140,000 US and NATO troops (the peak number in 2011). And no one supplied the Taliban with helicopters, artillery, armored vehicles and training, as we did for the Afghans.

    Yet, the Taliban continue to defeat the Afghan National Army, on which we have lavished so much money and training. They could not do this without active support and passive tolerance from the population. Nor can we insist that the population only cooperates because they’re afraid.

    Pashtun sons still join the Taliban, despite the heavy casualties we’ve inflicted.

    One of our most-revered generals has told me repeatedly over the years that the Taliban are inept on the battlefield. Mimicking his Vietnam-era counterparts, he misses the point. No, Taliban fighters can’t compete one-on-one with US troops. Yet, they keep on fighting, against terrible odds, while the Afghan forces we back seek to avoid battle.

    Isn’t it time to stop lying to ourselves?

    Now President Trump must decide whether to send several thousand more US troops to Afghanistan to serve as trainers and facilitators (we currently have 8,400 troops in the country). Shouldn’t we ask ourselves how a total of 14,000 US troops (plus a few thousand allies) will achieve what 140,000 US and NATO troops could not?

    Consider just a few of the problems we face:

    Our military leadership clearly doesn’t grasp the principle of “sunk costs,” that you can’t redeem a failed investment by investing more.

     While fighting the Taliban we continue to raise the prospect of bringing Taliban elements into a unity government. Is that what our troops died for over 16 bloody years? We’re failing, and we’re desperate.

     Then there’s the complaint that “If we leave, we’ll have to go back.” Well, going back and whacking terrorists every decade or so would have proven a lot cheaper than trying to turn Kabul into Denver. Strategic raids work — precisely what we initially did in Afghanistan in 2001. Nation-building in traditional cultures doesn’t work — what we tried from 2002 on.

     Knowing the risks, young Afghans volunteer to fight for the Taliban but are reluctant to serve in the Afghan National Army — where officers sell ammunition to the enemy and steal the money intended to feed their troops. Meanwhile, we defend a shamelessly corrupt elite whose thieving of billions we enabled out of expedience. Why would Afghans fight for a government that robs them?

     If Afghans won’t unite to save their own country, we cannot do it for them, no matter how many troops we send, how much we spend or how long we stay.

     Horrid though the Taliban are to us, we must accept that many Afghans just don’t want what we want them to want. We won’t accept that people choose to live in devotional squalor and torture their women, but they do

    Sending a few thousand more troops to Afghanistan sounds like small change, but it would tie down many more. That matters because Afghanistan is strategically worthless to us, even as we face a grave challenge from North Korea, an all-but-inevitable clash with the Revolutionary Guards holding Iran and the Middle East hostage, and a civilizational threat from Russia’s reinvigorated barbarism.

    What should we do? A reasonable compromise would be to reduce US troop numbers in Afghanistan to those essential for targeting Islamic State in Khorasan (the local ISIS franchise) and al Qaeda. Use contractors to train Afghan forces. Continue to equip those forces — but under strict anti-corruption guidelines.

    And if Afghans won’t fight for their own country, be ready to leave completely.

    During our Revolution, the wealthy Tories of Manhattan supported the Crown because it served their interests. Today, corrupt Afghans in Kabul whom we have enriched support our presence and tell us everything we want to hear. But the ill-armed, shabby rebels are out there, determined to win.
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

  • #2
    It’s time to give up on saving Afghanistan | New York Post
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

    Comment


    • #3
      last sentence is most accurate
      "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

      Comment


      • #4
        Afghanistan does have an extremely decent strategic location, and any world power would love to have a base there. At a high level, a base in Afghanistan essentially puts Pakistan, Iran, and China in its spot.

        Overall, the situation in the region does not look good all. Not much to show for all those billions.
        Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

        A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

        For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


        The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

        -Ferishta, 1560–1620

        Comment


        • #5
          In many ways Afghanistan is an important location to apply pincer movement of influence, military or psychological, on Iran. One pincer from Iraq, other from Afghanistan. In American strategy that will keep Iran from crossing the rubicon, economic and military, that scares the shakes ****less. There is a huge base in Gutter, so the sea is covered as well.

          And the American Irony, from New York Post, rubiconed excerpts from BA, "Yet, they keep on fighting, against terrible odds", and "Why would Afghans fight for a government that robs them?", they answer their own questions.
          Last edited by torkham; 06-11-2017, 05:16 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            The best "containers" of Iran was the Taliban on one side and Saddam on the other. The American MIC greed blinded all rationality. Leaving Afghanistan will only contain Iran to its East and at the same time create problems for Russia. It would be in the US strategic interest to leave since it would create problems for its Rivals in the region ie Iran and Russia.

            I never understand why Americans say Afghans wont fight for their country, its like King George saying G. Washington wouldnt fight for his country or Hitler saying why the poles arn't fighting for their country when they staged the Warsaw uprising.

            The title is wrong. It should be "Its time to give up on saving corrupt Afghans"
            Last edited by khushal; 06-11-2017, 07:54 AM.

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            • #7
              So my question here is obvious: once Taliban take over, once you defeat every single enemy, once you bring your uthopian tribal system to every corner of the country,.. what are you going to do then? How are you going to organize the country? How are you going to encourage education, trade, good governance, healthcare, diplomacy with other countries? Are seriously mr akhunzada and mr haqqani willing to travel to Holland to have a meeting with some liberal politicians?

              Taliban have been around for 25 years now and we have never seen any cosntructive proporsal from them. Never. Even our corrupt and failed government seems better than what these people want to bring to us.
              "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
              I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

              -Ferdowsi.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Firdousi View Post
                So my question here is obvious: once Taliban take over, once you defeat every single enemy, once you bring your uthopian tribal system to every corner of the country,.. what are you going to do then? How are you going to organize the country? How are you going to encourage education, trade, good governance, healthcare, diplomacy with other countries? Are seriously mr akhunzada and mr haqqani willing to travel to Holland to have a meeting with some liberal politicians?

                Taliban have been around for 25 years now and we have never seen any cosntructive proporsal from them. Never. Even our corrupt and failed government seems better than what these people want to bring to us.

                That choice does not belong to you or me my friend. That choice belongs to the Afghans, the ones that are actually living there and are suffering from the policies of corruption. You and I arent suffering, you and I actually have opportunities to gain from their suffering which is why some people promote the status quo and continue the corrupt policies.

                Your not looking at the conflict from the point of view of the Afghans that sufffer, your looking at it from the point of view of a westerner who thinks he knows whats best for those poor uneducated barbarian brown people because thats what the media portrays. People know whats best for them and how they should live and even if they dont, its still their choice, not your or mine.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by khushal View Post
                  That choice does not belong to you or me my friend. That choice belongs to the Afghans, the ones that are actually living there and are suffering from the policies of corruption. You and I arent suffering, you and I actually have opportunities to gain from their suffering which is why some people promote the status quo and continue the corrupt policies.

                  Your not looking at the conflict from the point of view of the Afghans that sufffer, your looking at it from the point of view of a westerner who thinks he knows whats best for those poor uneducated barbarian brown people because thats what the media portrays. People know whats best for them and how they should live and even if they dont, its still their choice, not your or mine.
                  I do agree. But I don't know why you still making the assumption that Taliban are some sort of popular or resistance movement. From my own experience, Taliban are not much more popular than other corrupt movements such as Jamiat, Hezb Islami or those corrupt Afghan-American "technocrats" such as Karzai or Khalilzad.

                  In the long term, both our government and taliban are doomed to fail. Both have failed miserably and both will fail sooner or later. Still I prefer our corrupt government over Taliban. At least they can seriously bring some positive things to our country while taliban cannot (except for security but its achieved by barbaric means).
                  "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
                  I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

                  -Ferdowsi.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    [MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION]
                    interesting, your comment about security at cost of barbarity; Saddam and Gaddafi kept their people secure and crushed dissenters to oblivion too.

                    Considering all the efforts made and all the dashed hopes, our country has to go through a revolution, but it has to be the people's own revolution. To re-phrase Henry Longfellow's quote on 'mills of god', revolutions do grind slowly and the small, but with exactness they grind all.

                    I think it is happening. The small (poor, weak, old, women, children) are being ground, the process is slow, former more unfortunate than the latter, yet there is hope that it will be exact and for all.

                    End of the day it is not about equal rights, it's about justice.
                    Last edited by torkham; 06-12-2017, 05:42 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by torkham View Post
                      [MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION]
                      interesting, your comment about security at cost of barbarity; Saddam and Gaddafi kept their people secure and crushed dissenters to oblivion too.

                      Considering all the efforts made and all the dashed hopes, our country has to go through a revolution, but it has to be the people's own revolution. To re-phrase Henry Longfellow's quote on 'mills of god', revolutions do grind slowly and the small, but with exactness they grind all.

                      I think it is happening. The small (poor, weak, old, women, children) are being ground, the process is slow, former more unfortunate than the latter, yet there is hope that it will be exact and for all.

                      End of the day it is not about equal rights, it's about justice.
                      Well I would point out that there is a uge difference between Lybia and Iraq. Lybia under Gaddafi ahd the highest HDI rate in Africa. When Gaddafi realized that panarabism was a dead horse, he gave up on it. Many Lybians didnt like that.

                      On the other side, Saddam was a loser. He was quite unpopular among most of Iraqis. Shias and Kurds despised him. He started several stupid wars against his neighbors and the USA that led to the death of thousands of Iraqis.

                      Yeah sooner or later Afghansitan will change. I seriousley beleuive Afghansitan will become a strong and stable democracy (not Western liberal democracy but a demcoratic system based on our values and our culture). Afghans are egalitarian people by nature. We despise poverty, most of us value and encourage education and culture, etc. Also our multiethnic which has been a "liability" thorough our history will become an "asset": multiethnic society are more lighly to become democratic. Minorities will always try to create a system where their rights are ensured.

                      You know Torkham sahib not long time ago I read a graffiti written on a wall in Kabul that seriously stuck me: "Afghanistan is a flower that will only bloom in peace". Afghanistan despite all his flaws our country and oru people are "exceptional". It will take a bit more time.
                      "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
                      I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

                      -Ferdowsi.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Afghans should have sided with the west, instead of stupid extremists. What have the extremists ever done for you?

                        The prime example is to look at Kurdistan in Iraq, they sided with the west 100% and look at how peaceful life there is now, and their economy is flourishing despite ISIS being their neighbors. The stupid unrealistic Islam card will always be the downfall for muslims

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Firdousi View Post
                          I do agree. But I don't know why you still making the assumption that Taliban are some sort of popular or resistance movement. From my own experience, Taliban are not much more popular than other corrupt movements such as Jamiat, Hezb Islami or those corrupt Afghan-American "technocrats" such as Karzai or Khalilzad.

                          In the long term, both our government and taliban are doomed to fail. Both have failed miserably and both will fail sooner or later. Still I prefer our corrupt government over Taliban. At least they can seriously bring some positive things to our country while taliban cannot (except for security but its achieved by barbaric means).
                          In the bigger picture. No matter who is running Afghanistan or Pakistan or the other istans, the status quo designs of these "nations" is failure. They are designed to be in conflict with each other and be dependant on Western Aid and Western mediation which is why Iran has been calling the master of the West "The Great Satan."
                          Unless these societies can come together and cooperate with each other much like Europe has, they will never succeed and its populations will continue to seek migration to the West and offer slave labor to the GCC. But that will never happen with intervention.

                          The funny thing is that the Far right in the West have promoted bombing and intervention campaigns but they cry about the consequences when those populations start migrating to the West. Reap and sow.
                          Last edited by khushal; 07-11-2017, 12:56 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by khushal View Post
                            In the bigger picture. No matter who is running Afghanistan or Pakistan or the other istans, the status quo designs of these "nations" is failure. They are designed to be in conflict with each other and be dependant on Western Aid and Western mediation which is why Iran has been calling the master of the West "The Great Satan."
                            Unless these societies can come together and cooperate with each other much like Europe has, they will never succeed and its populations will continue to seek migration to the West and offer slave labor to the GGC. But that will never happen with intervention.

                            The funny thing is that the Far right in the West have promoted bombing and intervention campaigns but they cry about the consequences when those populations start migrating to the West. Reap and sow.
                            Yeah you got a point there. Its pretty obvious that modern nation-states and boundaries were imposed by colonial powers, whom carried out a "divide and rule" policy. Though I do agree that many of our problems hail from colonialism I think its unfair to blame all our miseries on Westerners. I mean our "countries" were not peaceful utopian paradises prior to colonialism.

                            I have been living for years here in Europe and believe me European regional integration is overrated. The European Project would have failed without USA´s military might. After WWII USA just imposed his Pax Americanna on Europeans who were so fed up with wars and with commies next door that they gladly accepted USA´s tutelage. Still EU is the best regional integration project ever created. Kudos.
                            "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
                            I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

                            -Ferdowsi.

                            Comment

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