Time to breakup

[DSM0305]

Afghanistan's policy have been full of stupidity and contradiction. This includes both foreign policy and internal. In this thread I will tackle the foreign issue, that most people tend to avoid.

If your guess was trade with Pakistan and through Pakistan; well, then you're correct.

The thing is that the trade between Afghanistan and Pakistan to say the least way to overrated, actually it is existentially damaging to Afghanistan. Many of you may now jump from your chair in shook, but hear me out. There 3 essential things in trade.
- Creating allies
- Creating peace
- Benefiting the population
Now you probably asking ''what the problem''. The problem with Afghan and Pakistani trade is that none of the 3 is present. At least if you see it from the Afghan side. From Pakistani side, the third mentioned is present.

Now lets look at the actual reasons why it isn't benefiting Afghanistan. Afghanistan is in its current form an importing nation. It has very little export, while having far to high demand for import. In reality this should make us a very desirable trading partner for other nations, but with Pakistan it have effected us in the opposite. It have made us dependent on Pakistan. Basically a tool to be used for the sole purpose of threatening Afghanistan. What the worst part of it. Well, the worst part is that we actually absolutely don't need Pakistan for trade.
We can have access to the sea? Well, be my guest and tell me exactly why we need a sea port... We are not an export nation for now. We do not have any commodity to trade with the world. The only nation that we are trading with, where a sea port is need, is no other than India. Which again, making it difficult if we do it through Pakistan. A more stable trade route with India would be through Iran.
So the question remains, why do we need Pakistan???? Lets summarize
1. It is unstable route, because Pakistan using it as a political tool and keep closing it. Which results in loss of millions dollars for Afghan traders.
2. Our trade with them is undermining Afghan production. Which in result creates unemployment in Afghanistan. Our domestic production will benefit tremendous with closing borders with Pakistan.
3. We are losing Afghan jobs. Yes, you heard me. Those expensive villas and buildings build in Afghanistan. One would think that the unemployment rate in Afghanistan would be non existent, but no. Those who are hired for the jobs are Pakistanis.
4. We are losing money. The thing with import is that if you don't match the export, you will be losing money to foreign notions. In this case Pakistan.

Closing borders may hurt Afghanistan in short term, but in long term benefit them greatly.

There are many more, but unfortunately I am out of time. I will write about them when I get time.

[Firdousi]

Four decades ago Pakistan closed the border and Afghanistan´s economy collapsed. We had to turn to URSS for help and we all know all that ended up.

Today, after two months, Afghanistan´s economy has suffered.. but not to the point of collapse. Since 2001 our dependency on Pakistan is growing smaller. This is actually a good move by Porkistan. Now Afghans will focus more on CAR´s and Iran. The less we depend on this sh*thole inhabited by ungrateful namak harams the better.

Furthermore I consider that Porkistan must be destroyed

[logical]

Afghanis are smugglers. They can import from any other country but Iran for example will not tolerate smuggling like Pakistan. Once a smuggler always smuggler and Pakistan take full advantage of that by blackmailing Afghanis by closing border.

It's not like Pakistan benefit from trade but Afghanistan.

[Firdousi]

Afghanis are smugglers. They can import from any other country but Iran for example will not tolerate smuggling like Pakistan. Once a smuggler always smuggler and Pakistan take full advantage of that by blackmailing Afghanis by closing border.

It's not like Pakistan benefit from trade but Afghanistan.

Smuggling is a good thing as long as it harms Pakistan. Keep smuggling Afghans. LOL

[khushal]

Afghanis are smugglers. They can import from any other country but Iran for example will not tolerate smuggling like Pakistan. Once a smuggler always smuggler and Pakistan take full advantage of that by blackmailing Afghanis by closing border.

It's not like Pakistan benefit from trade but Afghanistan.

Most of the smuggling is controlled by the paki army kernals and generals that have their smuggling business on the side. Both sides benefit from trade but pakistan has control since most goods come from the southern routes controlled by pakistan except that smuggling cant be controlled. Afghanistan can choose to bring goods through iranian ports or from the north but then Iran or Russia has control.

Pakistan's aim is to have a friendly gov in afghanistan therefore have trade access to resource rich central asia. The US military(controlled by western corps) wants to ensure hegemonic control over the region by creating an unfriendly afghan regime in Kabul just like they created an unfriendly paki regime to india . As long as the region cant get along they have control over all of you.

[logical]

Most of the smuggling is controlled by the paki army kernals and generals that have their smuggling business on the side. Both sides benefit from trade but pakistan has control since most goods come from the southern routes controlled by pakistan except that smuggling cant be controlled. Afghanistan can choose to bring goods through iranian ports or from the north but then Iran or Russia has control.

Pakistan's aim is to have a friendly gov in afghanistan therefore have trade access to resource rich central asia. The US military(controlled by western corps) wants to ensure hegemonic control over the region by creating an unfriendly afghan regime in Kabul just like they created an unfriendly paki regime to india . As long as the region cant get along they have control over all of you.

Only afghanis benefit from trade not both sides. But your days of being smuggler are coming to an end with fencing and proper border management. They are already working on that. We feed you inside Pakistan and in Afghanistan, don't forget that.

[khushal]

Only afghanis benefit from trade not both sides. But your days of being smuggler are coming to an end with fencing and proper border management. They are already working on that. We feed you inside Pakistan and in Afghanistan, don't forget that.

You have revelaed that you have no education. When individuals and countries trade, their is a benefit to both sides.

http://www.csun.edu/sites/default/files/micro2.pdf

Since you are a paki who has been conditioned to only act as a slave and not a free thinker, there is a chance you might not understand or refuse to understand the concept.

The fencing does not work since most of the tribal people that live on the border are poor, they will tear down the fence and sell the metal in the markets and use the wood for firewood.

And you call yourself logical when you dont understand simple economics.

[toughpashtun]

[MENTION=19853]logical[/MENTION]
It is not correct to say that only Afghans benefit from the trade and smuggling that occurs in the border regions.
Pakistani businessmen/smugglers have made fortunes in this trade.
And Pakistani bureaucrats and army officials have earned their share of black money too as a result of the smuggling that has been happening between Af-Pak.
[MENTION=1547]khushal[/MENTION] has a point.

[Kakar-Wardak]

Only afghanis benefit from trade not both sides. But your days of being smuggler are coming to an end with fencing and proper border management. They are already working on that. We feed you inside Pakistan and in Afghanistan, don't forget that.

The only reason Pakistani establishment is sending back refugees is because un has slashed aid for them, Pakistani government is not an altruistic saint considering it has no problem killing it's own citizens.

[DSM0305]

I am glad some of you have mention smuggling.
Frankly speaking, smuggling in itself should be a reason to close borders with Pakistan.
You guys may not know, but smuggling is one of the things that harms Afghanistan far more than any other country. It actually benefiting Pakistan.
- Our trees have been cut of and smuggled and sold for far less than what it is worth. Firstly it damages our environment. Secondly it damages our economy, since our natural resource getting sold for far less than what it would have been sold for.
- Our precious metal and ores are getting smuggled into foreign nation and again, being sold for far less than its actually worth. The worth part, it doesn't get processed even, which reduced it price even further. We are not talking about twice as less, or trice, but in hundredth times less. You guys have no idea how big of a loss we are doing.

Smuggling isn't something to be taken lightly. How much smuggling harms the nation depends solely on how much control the government have of the resources. Sadly the Afghan government have far less control than neighboring countries, which makes smuggling far more harmful for the afghan people than their neighbors.

[logical]

[MENTION=19853]logical[/MENTION]
It is not correct to say that only Afghans benefit from the trade and smuggling that occurs in the border regions.
Pakistani businessmen/smugglers have made fortunes in this trade.
And Pakistani bureaucrats and army officials have earned their share of black money too as a result of the smuggling that has been happening between Af-Pak.
[MENTION=1547]khushal[/MENTION] has a point.

Some corrupt individuals benefit from this smuggling but state of Pakistan doesn't. It's like Panama Nawaz, he and his family benefit by avoiding taxes but not Pakistan. Which ultimately effect poor masses who can benefit with increased development budget.

Pakistan will need to take care of black money and smuggling in coming years. Starting by Pakistan supreme court punishing Nawaz family in panama case which will set precedent.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Some corrupt individuals benefit from this smuggling but state of Pakistan doesn't.

Who do you think these people pay off to keep their businesses running. Don't be so Naive.

[khushal]

I am glad some of you have mention smuggling.
Frankly speaking, smuggling in itself should be a reason to close borders with Pakistan.
You guys may not know, but smuggling is one of the things that harms Afghanistan far more than any other country. It actually benefiting Pakistan.
- Our trees have been cut of and smuggled and sold for far less than what it is worth. Firstly it damages our environment. Secondly it damages our economy, since our natural resource getting sold for far less than what it would have been sold for.
- Our precious metal and ores are getting smuggled into foreign nation and again, being sold for far less than its actually worth. The worth part, it doesn't get processed even, which reduced it price even further. We are not talking about twice as less, or trice, but in hundredth times less. You guys have no idea how big of a loss we are doing.

Smuggling isn't something to be taken lightly. How much smuggling harms the nation depends solely on how much control the government have of the resources. Sadly the Afghan government have far less control than neighboring countries, which makes smuggling far more harmful for the afghan people than their neighbors.

When you close borders, Smugglers make more money because their services become more in demand. This environment ensures a few individuals in control of trade and they create a monopoly.
To decrease smuggling and greedy individuals from monopolizing resources and wealth, you need something similar to what America has created between the states. The commerce clause that ensures free trade between the states which creates wealth:
THE COMMERCE CLAUSE - The Expanding Economic Vista - NYTimes.com
The True Spirit of the Union: How the Commerce Clause Helped Build America and Why the Corporate Right Wants to Shrink It Today // People For the American Way

[Friends of Baloch]

Afghanistan has already embraced Iran as its largest trading partner and is diversifying its trade relations with all neighbours except for Pakiland, which is the only country where trade is falling.

Iran likewise has almost non-existent trade with Pakiland. Despite Iran having said it would increase trade with Pakiland, it has in reality been making trade more difficult for the stinking Pakis.

See below.

Iran-Pakistan Trade on the Decline | Financial Tribune
Economy, Domestic Economy
Saturday, April 08, 2017
Iran-Pakistan Trade on the Decline

Trade between Pakistan and Iran is at the lowest ebb, as Pakistan’s exports alarmingly plunged to $318 million in 2015-16 from $1.32 billion in 2008-09, confirming that the Preferential Trade Agreement between the two neighboring countries is no more functional.

Pakistan’s imports from Iran stand at about $280 million, a senior Pakistani official at Economic Affairs Division told The News.

Iran, which is the immediate neighboring country, has the trade volume of $18 billion with India even in the presence of US sanctions, raising eyebrows as to why Pakistan could not manage to keep trade with Iran at a reasonable level. Most trade between Iran and India is based on barter system and this model has failed in the case of Pakistan.

Top Pakistani decision-makers have decided to initiate trade diplomacy with Iran and to this effect, both countries are going to hold crucial talks in the meeting of Joint Economic Commission to be held on April 17-18. Commerce Minister Khurrum Dastgir will lead Pakistan’s side.

Pakistani banks still shy away from carrying out transactions with Iranian banks. The absence of banking channels is the single largest obstacle to enhancing the trade.

Nonetheless, State Bank of Pakistan and the Central Bank of Iran are also in talks for payment arrangements through banking channels.

The Preferential Trade Agreement stipulates that Pakistan extends tariff concessions to Iran over 320 tariff lines and Tehran grants concessions on 309 tariff lines.

Pakistan alleges that the PTA is being flouted by Iran by increasing unilateral tariffs on Pakistan products, saying Tehran has increased tariff on textile and clothing by up to 121%. It has also imposed the increase in import duty on leather, footwear, fruits, vegetables and rice.

According to the Pakistani side, Iran has slapped about 90%% duty instead of 44% duty agreed in PTA on Pakistani kinnow while it has maintained a ban on fruit imports from Pakistan since 2012.

Iran has yet to react to the Pakistani allegations.

Last year, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani visited Pakistan in March and agreed on a five-year strategic trade expansion plan with the aim of promoting bilateral trade to reach $5 billion.

Iran Named Afghanistan’s Largest Trade Partner in 216: ACCI | TOLOnews
Iran Named Afghanistan’s Largest Trade Partner in 2016: ACCI

Statistics by the ACCI shows that Iran’s trade value with Afghanistan for 2016 was $1.8 billion USD and that trade volumes between Afghanistan and Pakistan dropped

Afghanistan Chamber of Commerce and Industries (ACCI) on Sunday said Iran retained its position as the country’s largest trade partner for 2016.

Statistics by the ACCI shows that Iran’s trade value with Afghanistan for 2016 was $1.8 billion USD. However trade volumes between Afghanistan and Pakistan for 2016 dropped by $1.2 billion USD.

Iran’s exports to Afghanistan over the past year was estimated to be $1.8 billion USD, the ACCI said.

Meanwhile, the Ministry of Commerce and Industries (MoCI) said currently countries in the region and around the world are looking to expand their economic and trade cooperation with Afghanistan - except Pakistan.

Afghanistan trade volumes declined by 50 percent since 2013. But despite this Iran and Afghanistan’s trade volume has increased significantly.

Based on the ACCI’s statistics, trade volumes between Afghanistan and Iran is estimated to total almost $2 billion USD, with Pakistan at $1.3 billion USD, China at $1 billion USD, Turkmenistan at $700 million USD and with Kazakhstan at $500 million USD.

“Currently there are several countries who are willing to provide our needs, even they are prepared to give us subsidies on food items and export them to Afghanistan,” said ACCI CEO Atiqullah Nusrat.

The Afghan ministry of commerce and industries has said that trade volume between Afghanistan and Pakistan dropped over Pakistan’s moves to shut trade routes and strained relations between the two countries.

“We always tried to keep a balance while managing our needs of products so that we are not dependent on one or two countries,” said Musafir Qoqandi, spokesman for the ministry of commerce and industires.

Back in February, Pakistan closed its key crossings with Afghanistan. Fresh border restrictions by Pakistan apparently opened new doors of trade and commerce opportunities for Afghanistan and during this period. Afghanistan’s trade and commercial ties were expanded with Iran, Turkey, India and central Asian countries.

[khushal]

Afghanistan has already embraced Iran as its largest trading partner and is diversifying its trade relations with all neighbours except for Pakiland, which is the only country where trade is falling.

Iran likewise has almost non-existent trade with Pakiland. Despite Iran having said it would increase trade with Pakiland, it has in reality been making trade more difficult for the stinking Pakis.

See below.

Iran-Pakistan Trade on the Decline | Financial Tribune
Economy, Domestic Economy
Saturday, April 08, 2017
Iran-Pakistan Trade on the Decline

Trade between Pakistan and Iran is at the lowest ebb, as Pakistan’s exports alarmingly plunged to $318 million in 2015-16 from $1.32 billion in 2008-09, confirming that the Preferential Trade Agreement between the two neighboring countries is no more functional.

Pakistan’s imports from Iran stand at about $280 million, a senior Pakistani official at Economic Affairs Division told The News.

Iran, which is the immediate neighboring country, has the trade volume of $18 billion with India even in the presence of US sanctions, raising eyebrows as to why Pakistan could not manage to keep trade with Iran at a reasonable level. Most trade between Iran and India is based on barter system and this model has failed in the case of Pakistan.

Top Pakistani decision-makers have decided to initiate trade diplomacy with Iran and to this effect, both countries are going to hold crucial talks in the meeting of Joint Economic Commission to be held on April 17-18. Commerce Minister Khurrum Dastgir will lead Pakistan’s side.

Pakistani banks still shy away from carrying out transactions with Iranian banks. The absence of banking channels is the single largest obstacle to enhancing the trade.

Nonetheless, State Bank of Pakistan and the Central Bank of Iran are also in talks for payment arrangements through banking channels.

The Preferential Trade Agreement stipulates that Pakistan extends tariff concessions to Iran over 320 tariff lines and Tehran grants concessions on 309 tariff lines.

Pakistan alleges that the PTA is being flouted by Iran by increasing unilateral tariffs on Pakistan products, saying Tehran has increased tariff on textile and clothing by up to 121%. It has also imposed the increase in import duty on leather, footwear, fruits, vegetables and rice.

According to the Pakistani side, Iran has slapped about 90%% duty instead of 44% duty agreed in PTA on Pakistani kinnow while it has maintained a ban on fruit imports from Pakistan since 2012.

Iran has yet to react to the Pakistani allegations.

Last year, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani visited Pakistan in March and agreed on a five-year strategic trade expansion plan with the aim of promoting bilateral trade to reach $5 billion.

Iran Named Afghanistan’s Largest Trade Partner in 216: ACCI | TOLOnews
Iran Named Afghanistan’s Largest Trade Partner in 2016: ACCI

Statistics by the ACCI shows that Iran’s trade value with Afghanistan for 2016 was $1.8 billion USD and that trade volumes between Afghanistan and Pakistan dropped

Afghanistan Chamber of Commerce and Industries (ACCI) on Sunday said Iran retained its position as the country’s largest trade partner for 2016.

Statistics by the ACCI shows that Iran’s trade value with Afghanistan for 2016 was $1.8 billion USD. However trade volumes between Afghanistan and Pakistan for 2016 dropped by $1.2 billion USD.

Iran’s exports to Afghanistan over the past year was estimated to be $1.8 billion USD, the ACCI said.

Meanwhile, the Ministry of Commerce and Industries (MoCI) said currently countries in the region and around the world are looking to expand their economic and trade cooperation with Afghanistan - except Pakistan.

Afghanistan trade volumes declined by 50 percent since 2013. But despite this Iran and Afghanistan’s trade volume has increased significantly.

Based on the ACCI’s statistics, trade volumes between Afghanistan and Iran is estimated to total almost $2 billion USD, with Pakistan at $1.3 billion USD, China at $1 billion USD, Turkmenistan at $700 million USD and with Kazakhstan at $500 million USD.

“Currently there are several countries who are willing to provide our needs, even they are prepared to give us subsidies on food items and export them to Afghanistan,” said ACCI CEO Atiqullah Nusrat.

The Afghan ministry of commerce and industries has said that trade volume between Afghanistan and Pakistan dropped over Pakistan’s moves to shut trade routes and strained relations between the two countries.

“We always tried to keep a balance while managing our needs of products so that we are not dependent on one or two countries,” said Musafir Qoqandi, spokesman for the ministry of commerce and industires.

Back in February, Pakistan closed its key crossings with Afghanistan. Fresh border restrictions by Pakistan apparently opened new doors of trade and commerce opportunities for Afghanistan and during this period. Afghanistan’s trade and commercial ties were expanded with Iran, Turkey, India and central Asian countries.

You dont know the smuggling business. If you are a pakistani and import products from Iran, there is a large tariff tax on the product so what people do is find an Afghan partner who will import the product from Iran and then smuggle it to Pakistan avoiding the tariff tax and vice versa. Much of the products that come to Afghanistan fromIran or the North goes to Pakistan. These figures are not calculated. Pashtuns that have accumulated much wealth(some of the richest pashtuns) are involved in the smuggling business.