Pashtun Lieutenant Generals in Pakistan?

[Traveller]

I've heard there are no Pashtun Lieutenant generals in the Pakistani Army. I have tried finding reliable sources for this but haven't been able to do so. Can someone help me out?

This is important to me as I'm trying to learn the true extent of anti-Pashtun discrimination in Pakistan and sift fact from fiction. So it would be nice if someone could help me with this.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

I might be the first one

[toughpashtun]

There have been Pashtun lieutenant generals in the Pakistan army.Examples:
Lt Gen Imranullah Khan, Gen Abdul Waheed Kakar , Lt Gen Tariq Khan,Lt Gen Ali Kuli Khan,Lt Gen Habibullah Khattak(Ali Kuli's father) and others.

And even more Major Generals.

[toughpashtun]

Gen Abdul Waheed Kakar served as COAS.
There are other Pashtun Lt Gens also ,I I haven't listed all of them.
And Major Generals are even more in number.

[Traveller]

There have been Pashtun lieutenant generals in the Pakistan army.Examples:
Lt Gen Imranullah Khan, Gen Abdul Waheed Kakar , Lt Gen Tariq Khan,Lt Gen Ali Kuli Khan,Lt Gen Habibullah Khattak(Ali Kuli's father) and others.

And even more Major Generals.

Thank you. But it seems to me that these are all former Lt. Generals. I want to know if there are still any today.

[Samandri]

There are 29 serving liet.generals and not a single one of them is Pashtun (the one with Durrani surname is from Punjab) List of serving Generals of the Pakistan Army - Wikipedia

[Traveller]

There are 29 serving liet.generals and not a single one of them is Pashtun (the one with Durrani surname is from Punjab) List of serving Generals of the Pakistan Army - Wikipedia

How can you tell none of them are Pashtun? It doesn't give their place of birth or ethnicity.

[Elite Pakhtun]

There are a lot of people with very generic surnames. Names like Aziz, Khan (obviously), Jamil, Ashraf, etc... how do you know what ethnicity they are?

There's also Hayat's, which is usually Pashtun, and someone called Sher Afgun.

Anyways, I'm not qualified to answer this question. Someone who knows better can take the spotlight.

(the one with Durrani surname is from Punjab)

How do you know?

[Peacelove]

There were many pashtun COAS and Lt.generals in Pak Army...Currently no body knows how many as ethnicity is not mentioned...Also Pak Army is not quota based government organization..FYI Pashtuns are second largest in pak army after punjabis...It would be much better if you open a thread about the conditions of pashtun in afghanistan...

[Traveller]

[MENTION=18842]Samandri[/MENTION] Can you answer my follow up question? I'm very interested in this so I would like to know.

[toughpashtun]

Assuming there are no lieutenant generals presently in the Pakistan army,even then that does not mean that Pashtuns are discriminated against in the army.
Pashtuns do serve in the army,and are holding high ranks too.
The total number of Pashtun high ranking army officers is obviously low compared to Punjabis because Pashtuns comprise a smaller percentage of the army.And that is very understandable,the population of Pashtuns is less than that of Punjab.

[Traveller]

Assuming there are no lieutenant generals presently in the Pakistan army,even then that does not mean that Pashtuns are discriminated against in the army.
Pashtuns do serve in the army,and are holding high ranks too.
The total number of Pashtun high ranking army officers is obviously low compared to Punjabis because Pashtuns comprise a smaller percentage of the army.And that is very understandable,the population of Pashtuns is less than that of Punjab.

Even if we are less, having no Pashtun lt. generals out of 29 is blatant underrepresentation. And it doesn't matter how many generals of other ranks are Pashtun then because the lt. Generals are the elite group that have the most power.

[toughpashtun]

Even if we are less, having no Pashtun lt. generals out of 29 is blatant underrepresentation. And it doesn't matter how many generals of other ranks are Pashtun then because the lt. Generals are the elite group that have the most power.

I think it is incorrect to believe that just because an officer is Pashtun, he will face obstacles in getting promoted.I am not claiming that the armed forces are completely free of nepotism, but this notion is wrong.

[Akbar]

the reason is simple.
promotions in napak army are done when the lower ranking officers offer their wives to their superiors to sleep with, in exchange they get promoted..

it was mentioned by luffy quite a while ago on this forum.

[maneatinglizard]

If we were to assume that everyone in the military has an equal chance to become a Lt. General without ethnicity being a factor, and about 15% of the military is Pashtun (that number is from 2007 but was the latest I could find), then you'd expect between 4 and 5 of 29 being Pashtun.

The chance that, out of 29 Lt. Generals and with ethnicity playing no role in the selection, 0 of them are Pashtun is about .9%. In fact, there's a slightly higher chance that 11 of the 29 would be Pashtun than none of them.

So there's basically no way that ethnicity isn't a factor in this selection process. Either Pashtuns are being discriminated against, or there's something about Pashtuns that makes them less qualified to become Lt. General. While my numbers are making some naive assumptions, even if we were able to eliminate those (something I don't have time for), this discrepancy would definitely still show, as it's way too large.

A military should be meritocratic at every level, so theoretically everyone should have an equal chance at advancing. Of course, there's nepotism in pretty much any organization, so promotions will never be purely based on merit, but that bias should affect every ethnicity.

The reason it isn't affecting everyone equally is probably because the existing power structure is already strongly Punjabi-biased. So at every level Punjabis benefit from nepotism and corruption more than other ethnicities. There's been a big movement recently in the West to reduce the degree to which white men have a structural and institutional advantage in many fields, and it's been a real struggle that's caused a huge backlash. In fact, one of the reasons Trump won the presidency, and the growing popularity of racism and hardcore nationalism in the West, is that a lot of white men feel threatened by the loss of their inherent advantage. I doubt Pakistan's military is doing anything to fix this discrepancy, but if they do you can expect a lot of resistance from the existing Punjabi elite.

Could there be more to it than just discrimination? Possibly. Pashtuns tend to be stubborn and rebellious, and what modern militaries value most is not combat ability or bravery (where Pashtuns have typically been seen as excelling at), but rather loyalty, obedience, and being able to follow orders. However, as far as I know most military recruitment is from urban populations, and I kinda doubt that the difference in demeanor of urban Pashtuns and Punjabis is so high that it should affect their ability to advance much.