This guy would be killed in most muslim countries

[Karachi]

Separating from India had as little to do with liberal or conservatism as me washing my hair in the shower. That was a colonial issue. There are Indians and Pakistanis who both agree that this was a huge mistake, and it should never have happened. Similarly there are lots of Pakistanis who'll say, thank god we're not with India, look at what's going on with Muslims under Modi. You'll also find stupid Indians saying thank god Pakistanis aren't with us, imagine how backward we'd be under their Islamic rule.

There are stupid people on both sides. Those are stupid people who don't want us to be together.

My qualm with you is why you're so focused on Punjabis in particular. Muhajirs are the ones who created Pakistan. Your forefathers proposed the idea of Pakistan, and Mohammad Iqbal, may have or may have not been sympathetic to your idea. But at the end of the day, it wasn't our idea. Punjab's solution was not separation. We feel much more pain than you lot do when we see Sikhs or Hindus on the other side of the border, separated for no reason. For ****s sake, it wasn't your provinces that experienced torture, rape and loot from Sikh/Muslim militias. We live with that. Whatever the (Punjabi) establishment of Pakistan does, I don't support it, I've already said that before. I stand with other ethnic groups before I stand with my own, because we're a majority.

Iqbal was the one who proposed the Idea you idiot, and he was from your region, was Iqbal Muhajir, was Jinnah Muhajir? the only people from Delhi, UP etc.. areas that went with the Idea were the Nawabs and Elites of those areas, not your average folks

Also we are talking about today, Punjabis are the most pro Pakistanis, they have the most hatred of their hindu roots, they think they are arabs, despite many of them having hindu last names.

and oh please most Pakistanis hate India, it is only muhajirs who say that partition was a bad idea

[khushal]

Iqbal was the one who proposed the Idea you idiot, and he was from your region, was Iqbal Muhajir, was Jinnah Muhajir? the only people from Delhi, UP etc.. areas that went with the Idea were the Nawabs and Elites of those areas, not your average folks

Also we are talking about today, Punjabis are the most pro Pakistanis, they have the most hatred of their hindu roots, they think they are arabs, despite many of them having hindu last names.

and oh please most Pakistanis hate India, it is only muhajirs who say that partition was a bad idea

Moahmmad Iqbal was Kashmiri and Jinnah's family was Gujarati. Neither were Panjabi.

Dividing the subcontinent was purely in British hands. Hegemonic powers benefit from divide and rule tactics therefore it was int heir interests to separate the sub continent. Muslims and Hindus lived side by side for a thousand years before British rule. The whole Muslims and Hindus cant live together was a ploy and an excuse to divide it and keep its influence over it.

[Elite Pakhtun]

whatever smallest good in Pakistan there is, is because of the Indian influence, whatever is left of it.

You have it exactly opposite. The good about Pakistan is that it's not india. The bad in pakistan is because india is a hostile neighbour. As a result of this, pakistan had to focus on security. This is the reason behind strategic depth, helping rebel groups in kashmir, and using religion as a tool to make jihadists etc. Most of these guys were attacking indian occupied kashmir in random skirmishes.

Another good is the city of islamabad. It replaced karachi as the capital. This was done by a pashtun, Ayub Khan. Also, encouraging the migration of Pashtuns to Karachi was started by him.

Afghan refugees were taken in almost exclusively by kpk and balochistan. Where did the indic people come in?

The indics were only good for robbing the people in broad daylight.

Actual india produces indian media... which is trash. Indics have their Indic languages, which is also trash.

Pakistan is a fake nation,

No it's real. Check the map.

is there any other nation like that in the world, where people have completely lost their identity and roots?

Ok this is kinda valid. But it depends on who you're talking to. There is a lot of fundamentalism.

I mean most pakistanis deny they have anything to do with India, many will say they were never part of India,

Yeah bro. This is because it's true. They weren't a part of India until the British. The indus region always had a distinct culture and identity. Even sikhs in Canada... if you get to know them, they talk about punjab this and punjab that. They admit their province is a part of India, but they do everything they can to distance themselves from indians. That's why they jerk off punjab so much.

There's also this north indian vs south Indian thing. North indians are basically wannabe Pakistanis.

And finally... you can see for yourself on other forums... most pakistanis see indians as inferior. They would hate nothing more than to be called an Indian. Check pdf if you don't believe me. Some guy even said this very clearly... that no matter what, he doesn't want to be a ****ing indian.

you are one them, at least for you it may be true, since you are pathan (maybe),

"maybe"?

[Elite Pakhtun]

Similarly there are lots of Pakistanis who'll say, thank god we're not with India, look at what's going on with Muslims under Modi.

Hmmmm... I have some bad news for you.

While the discrimination by Hindus is a factor, many Pakistanis, including punjabis and sindhis, see indians as inferior to them. They see them as uglier, shorter... and... well... more indian.

There are stupid people on both sides. Those are stupid people who don't want us to be together.

Awww how cute. Listen, we here at pf will not do anything to prevent you and Karachi from being together.

<3

[Porus]

Hmmmm... I have some bad news for you.

While the discrimination by Hindus is a factor, many Pakistanis, including punjabis and sindhis, see indians as inferior to them. They see them as uglier, shorter... and... well... more indian.

True, that's because they view Indians as being Hindus. Not like the Kapoors or Singhs of Bollywood either, but low-caste dalits. To be honest, the vast majority of India does kind of look like that, or at least resembles it.

Awww how cute. Listen, we here at pf will not do anything to prevent you and Karachi from being together.

<3

Bro. Are you serious :O man, ain't no way I'm getting with that dumb mf

[Porus]

Iqbal was the one who proposed the Idea you idiot,

and he was from your region, was Iqbal Muhajir, was Jinnah Muhajir? the only people from Delhi, UP etc.. areas that went with the Idea were the Nawabs and Elites of those areas, not your average folks

The political setup for Pakistan began in Aligarh, yes portions of Punjabis did support it due to the growing divide between Sikhs and Muslims, but the vast majority of votes came from your areas. Your beloved Tarek Fatah will confirm this fact.

Also we are talking about today, Punjabis are the most pro Pakistanis, they have the most hatred of their hindu roots, they think they are arabs, despite many of them having hindu last names.

By what measure? The Punjabis I've seen do that are Awan or Arain, and we all know they're bull****ting liars. Equally Muhajirs are very happy to bend over to Pak Fauj, your elites in Karachi still defend the kidnap of MQM workers except for a really tiny minority.

You guys hold names 'ul-Haq' or 'al-Sistani', lol in what world do you live in where a Bihari is from Sistan?

and oh please most Pakistanis hate India, it is only muhajirs who say that partition was a bad idea

[Friends of Baloch]

Yeah bro. This is because it's true. They weren't a part of India until the British. The indus region always had a distinct culture and identity. Even sikhs in Canada... if you get to know them, they talk about punjab this and punjab that. They admit their province is a part of India, but they do everything they can to distance themselves from indians. That's why they jerk off punjab so much.

No, you've been fooled with nonsense. There is no such magical and invisible dividing line that separates an "Indus region" from modern India. They are both historically "India", both inhabited originally by Dravidians, both "Indo-Aryan" speaking, both societies based on caste and Hinduism for some 3000 years. So called "Indus region" is inhabited by the same Hindu communities that stretch all the way to north-central India, the Jats in particular, but also Rajputs and many others who are all part of a larger common civilization.

Please, dont buy into paki fairy tales that you read on the internet. Read some history from actual university and academic publishers like OUP, Routledge, Palgrave, Cambridge, Harvard etc and from peer-reviewed journals. There is no substitute to academic scholarship.

Sikhs try to hype up Punjab all the time because the Sikh identity, like the Punjabi one, was constructed during the "British Raj", with Sikhism and Sikh identity in particular being tied up and associated with the new "Punjabi" identity that emerged during the British rule in India. You can find some background about the emergence of the "Sikh" identity that we know today here: http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/...bo3640357.html

But in the West it has mutated into something more. I have observed this phenomenon of a diaspora "Punjabi" identity emerge from the late 1990s onwards in the West. It was basically a political thing that has to do with the Indian army killing hundreds of hairbags at their Golden Temple in 1984. But at that time Sikhs in North America and the UK were talking about having a new country for Sikhs called Khalistan, it wasnt about a separate "Punjabi" state or "Punjab" being somehow different from India. It was all about the split between Sikhs and Hindus which is a legacy of British colonial rule in India that turned sour in the 1950s and 60s and finally violent in the 1980s.

But that was then. You may recall that whole thing about Khalistan was early on associated Globally with terrorism and fanatics after the Air India bombing in 1985. By the early 1990s it had been crushed by pro-India Sikhs and the diaspora ones that had turned anti-India in 1984 were left without an 'ethnic' identity because "Indian" was obviously a label they had rejected and Khalistan was now a word associated with terrorism. So these people started repackaging themselves as "Punjabis" being non-Indians instead of talking about Khalistan to keep that dream of a separate Sikh state going but without reference to the idea of a "Sikh state", but rather "Punjabis" being some kind of unique people. Hairbags are slow so had to learn the hard way that the Iranian revolution in 1979 had already tarnished the idea of theocracy in most parts of the World forever, particularly in the West which has no sympathy for people that advocate theocracy.

The younger generation of Sikhs in Canada and the US and UK that have grown up or been born after the whole "Khalistan" thing was crushed and quickly forgotten about into the dustbin of history have probably been raised to think of themselves as "Punjabis" and "from Punjab". It is a politically created identity, it has no basis in fact, culture or history that they are different from the other Dravidians.

Anyway Sikhs are mostly farted up apes that think Punjab is some kind of Switzerland or Germany but that is because many of them are genuinely stupid idiots that dont know any better. The rest are typically insecure and inferior South Asians that know people around the World generally find Indian culture unappealing or funny or just dont respect Indians at all. So they also think that calling themselves "Punjabis" is going to make other people perceive them differently. But the irony is that negative stereotypes about Indians and Pakis being smelly, annoying, cheap, liars etc is actually mainly based on Punjabis anyway.

[Karachi]

Moahmmad Iqbal was Kashmiri and Jinnah's family was Gujarati. Neither were Panjabi.

Dividing the subcontinent was purely in British hands. Hegemonic powers benefit from divide and rule tactics therefore it was int heir interests to separate the sub continent. Muslims and Hindus lived side by side for a thousand years before British rule. The whole Muslims and Hindus cant live together was a ploy and an excuse to divide it and keep its influence over it.

Iqbal was only ethnically kashmiri, he was born and raised in punjab, I doubt he even spoke kashmiri, he clearly spoke punjabi, jinnah was born in Sindh. Muhajirs as they are known today are the people of Delhi, UP, Bihar areas

And blaming British only is a stupid thing, it was muslims who came up with idea. British took advantage of it yes, especially they made borders in the wrong areas, like taking Pashtun areas for example, but I am sure Muslims had a hand in that too

Muslims and hindus were not living together for the most part, only during Akbar's time there was a bit of peace, because he was a peaceful Mughal, however orthodox muslims started hating his peaceful ways and then guys like Aurengzeb came

[Karachi]

You have it exactly opposite. The good about Pakistan is that it's not india. The bad in pakistan is because india is a hostile neighbour. As a result of this, pakistan had to focus on security. This is the reason behind strategic depth, helping rebel groups in kashmir, and using religion as a tool to make jihadists etc. Most of these guys were attacking indian occupied kashmir in random skirmishes.

Another good is the city of islamabad. It replaced karachi as the capital. This was done by a pashtun, Ayub Khan. Also, encouraging the migration of Pashtuns to Karachi was started by him.

Afghan refugees were taken in almost exclusively by kpk and balochistan. Where did the indic people come in?

The indics were only good for robbing the people in broad daylight.

Actual india produces indian media... which is trash. Indics have their Indic languages, which is also trash.




No it's real. Check the map.



Ok this is kinda valid. But it depends on who you're talking to. There is a lot of fundamentalism.



Yeah bro. This is because it's true. They weren't a part of India until the British. The indus region always had a distinct culture and identity. Even sikhs in Canada... if you get to know them, they talk about punjab this and punjab that. They admit their province is a part of India, but they do everything they can to distance themselves from indians. That's why they jerk off punjab so much.

There's also this north indian vs south Indian thing. North indians are basically wannabe Pakistanis.

And finally... you can see for yourself on other forums... most pakistanis see indians as inferior. They would hate nothing more than to be called an Indian. Check pdf if you don't believe me. Some guy even said this very clearly... that no matter what, he doesn't want to be a ****ing indian.




"maybe"?

I am talking about culturally you idiot, whatever so called little liberalism or education there is in Pakistan is because of Indian culture, not because your of central asian cultures which completly discourage such things and very conservative about everything

[Karachi]

Hmmmm... I have some bad news for you.

While the discrimination by Hindus is a factor, many Pakistanis, including punjabis and sindhis, see indians as inferior to them. They see them as uglier, shorter... and... well... more indian.




Awww how cute. Listen, we here at pf will not do anything to prevent you and Karachi from being together.

<3

those pakistanis are idiots and the funny thing is, the ones who say that exactly look like Indians themselves, it's not usually the iranid/pashtun looking onces

I know a Punjabi guy, who exactly looks like this Punjabi right here:



Yet he claims his ancestors are purely from Arabia, his family has nothing to do with Indians, This is the stupidity I am talking about. These people hate their roots and origins

The only Pakistanis that are different from Indians are the Pashtun and northern ones, your average Punjabi/Sindhi is 100% Indian in looks, culture, clothes etc...

[Karachi]

The political setup for Pakistan began in Aligarh, yes portions of Punjabis did support it due to the growing divide between Sikhs and Muslims, but the vast majority of votes came from your areas. Your beloved Tarek Fatah will confirm this fact.



By what measure? The Punjabis I've seen do that are Awan or Arain, and we all know they're bull****ting liars. Equally Muhajirs are very happy to bend over to Pak Fauj, your elites in Karachi still defend the kidnap of MQM workers except for a really tiny minority.

You guys hold names 'ul-Haq' or 'al-Sistani', lol in what world do you live in where a Bihari is from Sistan?

Idiot, look at the names of the people of the Pakistan movement Pakistan Movement - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

they were mostly khans, or people who were Nawabs of (foreign) origins at the time, they were from all parts of India, but Jinnah was leader of the movement. You can't blame average Indian folks for that, these Nawabs of rulers came from central asia, and they always hated the local Indians, muslims and non muslims

And again, we are talking about today, whatever in the past happend, happend, Today Punjabis are the biggest of Pakistanis, they are the ones who hate Indians the most, heck this is why Punjabis hate muhajirs so much, because they come from India

Also what the hell are you talking about, since when do average muhajirs have name like:ul-Haq' or 'al-Sistani, stop saying BS

[Karachi]

The rest are typically insecure and inferior South Asians that know people around the World generally find Indian culture unappealing or funny or just dont respect Indians at all.

And they find Balochi or Afghan culture very appealing? if you have to be critical of something at least do it for the right reasons, instead of your Indian/Dravidian phobia

Indian culture is considered very exotic, this is why thousands and thousands of westerners visit India every year

[DaZahroJaam.]

I was simply responding, you said Pakistan isn't more liberal than anything, I said the obvious answer: Afghanistan.



Not bragging, just stating a fact. How would you like to deal with this matter?

I would like for you to accept the fact that Pakistan is not a liberal state but one that fails to implement democracy as well as religious facism. That an individual gets away with saying this or that, l not due to the freedom of speech allowed to every citizen or level of respect and tolerance shared between Pakistani citizens but because no one cares enough to hold anyone else accountable for what they state or claim unless they see the opportunity to profit from it personally.

[Elite Pakhtun]

No, you've been fooled with nonsense. There is no such magical and invisible dividing line that separates an "Indus region" from modern India. They are both historically "India", both inhabited originally by Dravidians, both "Indo-Aryan" speaking, both societies based on caste and Hinduism for some 3000 years. So called "Indus region" is inhabited by the same Hindu communities that stretch all the way to north-central India, the Jats in particular, but also Rajputs and many others who are all part of a larger common civilization.

Please, dont buy into paki fairy tales that you read on the internet. Read some history from actual university and academic publishers like OUP, Routledge, Palgrave, Cambridge, Harvard etc and from peer-reviewed journals. There is no substitute to academic scholarship.

True. I do suppose it depends on what we're comparing it to. Compared to what Pakhtuns and Baloch, and further west, are accustomed to, yes, it is basically different versions of more or less the same thing. If we're isolating the sub-continent, and comparing the people within to each other, then there are apparently a few differences between them. From what I hear, the "northern" indians have an apparent superiority complex (This is likely historical, due to the direction of empires going from West to East). There's also an East/West cultural difference. Not sure to what degree though...

Prior to the British, it was the Durrani empire initially, that essentially had modern day Afghanistan, Pakistan, some parts of Iran and some parts of India. Following that, it was the short lived Sikh empire, which encompassed basically Indiot Punjab, Pakistani Punjab, Kashmir, and sadly, KPK, in Pakistan. This probably covers approx 200 years of essentially different cultures, and people, vs the rest of the sub-continent. That just further adds to the historical differences.

[/SIZE][/B] Sikhs try to hype up Punjab all the time because the Sikh identity, like the Punjabi one, was constructed during the "British Raj", with Sikhism and Sikh identity in particular being tied up and associated with the new "Punjabi" identity that emerged during the British rule in India. You can find some background about the emergence of the "Sikh" identity that we know today here: The Construction of Religious Boundaries: Culture, Identity, and Diversity in the Sikh Tradition, Oberoi

But in the West it has mutated into something more. I have observed this phenomenon of a diaspora "Punjabi" identity emerge from the late 1990s onwards in the West. It was basically a political thing that has to do with the Indian army killing hundreds of hairbags at their Golden Temple in 1984. But at that time Sikhs in North America and the UK were talking about having a new country for Sikhs called Khalistan, it wasnt about a separate "Punjabi" state or "Punjab" being somehow different from India. It was all about the split between Sikhs and Hindus which is a legacy of British colonial rule in India that turned sour in the 1950s and 60s and finally violent in the 1980s.

But that was then. You may recall that whole thing about Khalistan was early on associated Globally with terrorism and fanatics after the Air India bombing in 1985. By the early 1990s it had been crushed by pro-India Sikhs and the diaspora ones that had turned anti-India in 1984 were left without an 'ethnic' identity because "Indian" was obviously a label they had rejected and Khalistan was now a word associated with terrorism. So these people started repackaging themselves as "Punjabis" being non-Indians instead of talking about Khalistan to keep that dream of a separate Sikh state going but without reference to the idea of a "Sikh state", but rather "Punjabis" being some kind of unique people. Hairbags are slow so had to learn the hard way that the Iranian revolution in 1979 had already tarnished the idea of theocracy in most parts of the World forever, particularly in the West which has no sympathy for people that advocate theocracy.

The younger generation of Sikhs in Canada and the US and UK that have grown up or been born after the whole "Khalistan" thing was crushed and quickly forgotten about into the dustbin of history have probably been raised to think of themselves as "Punjabis" and "from Punjab". It is a politically created identity, it has no basis in fact, culture or history that they are different from the other Dravidians.

Anyway Sikhs are mostly farted up apes that think Punjab is some kind of Switzerland or Germany but that is because many of them are genuinely stupid idiots that dont know any better. The rest are typically insecure and inferior South Asians that know people around the World generally find Indian culture unappealing or funny or just dont respect Indians at all. So they also think that calling themselves "Punjabis" is going to make other people perceive them differently. But the irony is that negative stereotypes about Indians and Pakis being smelly, annoying, cheap, liars etc is actually mainly based on Punjabis anyway.

You know what... you are actually right. This a good point. I don't know why the whole Khalistan thing slipped my mind.

[Elite Pakhtun]

I am talking about culturally you idiot, whatever so called little liberalism or education there is in Pakistan is because of Indian culture, not because your of central asian cultures which completly discourage such things and very conservative about everything

Cease your petulant one-liners, and your inarticulate reasoning, and commence better elaboration, addressing my points individually (or ad hoc - converse to an aggregate response with insufficient reasoning) lest you find yourself (demonstrably) deemed as merely an inarticulate troll.