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What happens after the US election?

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  • What happens after the US election?

    If Hillary wins, which she may very well...
    She will continue the status quo. The current public US government and elected representatives are beholden to a real government that would permit neither Trump nor Hillary to budge much when it comes to particular foreign policy.

    To me as I have grown older and watched American society's trajectory over the last 20+ years I have observed two important things:

    1) Bread and Circuses. A Roman statesman once noted that the people can be pacified by these measures. Here, the entertainment industry has become more massive and more entrenched than ever. One sports season ends and the next begins and the people move ever onward staking their hopes, day, and time in their "team."

    Even during the recession of 2008 in which the economic collapse was staved off by the TARP, I commented to a friend as we drove past a movie theater in a lower middle class setting that the parking lot was still full. People will sacrifice a lot of income, even in the face of adversity, for that dopamine surge in the brain . Perhaps entertainment brings that- and provides a decrease in circulating stress neuro transmitters.

    And then of course there is the monumental access increase. Amazon prime, Netflix, the net itself provides instant access to these shows that are complete fantasy. Everyone has been talking about Game of Thrones and a variety of other shows that have cropped up. Imagine the number of hours invested in public productivity into these shows.

    Back in the day, people had to wait to watch their show or tape it or something of that nature. In the ancient days when Nizami was writing his own stories like Haft Peykaar or Laila and Majnun - his audience was not saturated with entertainment. Contrast that with the modern era

    I recall in Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury that the public and the protagonists wife was locked into permanent entertainment while the world around her was under lock down and control (the "electronic musical sea shells in the ears").

    Essentially, now that this is a part of the economy - the Bread and Circuses will continue unabated and human nature will push the masses to continue to consume this while the world around us is in turmoil.

    We are higher level cerebral beings and we certainly need some forms of entertainment in our lives... but when governance is in the hands of an uninformed populace then we have a problem.

    2) Taxes: About one third of my earnings get taxed by the federal government. Trump says he will decrease this to 18%. I honestly do not think he could accomplish this even if he wanted to.

    The powers that be, both republican and democrat alike understand that stability is key to governance. The bread and circuses maintains a portion of this. But real life issues arise - the need for schooling, healthcare etc.

    Despite claiming to be a secular democratric capitalistic enterprise - a good portion of the tax goes to funding hands outs that pacify the public and another portion goes to the military complex.

    NEITHER of these institutions (the public welfare oriented system) nor the military complex are going to cede an inch when it comes to giving up their funding and power. Jobs and livelihoods now depend upon this money flow continuing.

    Hillary Clinton certainly will not drawback on either of these. In fact she will likely tilt the tax code to provide even more welfare oriented/healthcare oriented goodies to pacify the public all while posturing as a woman who is "strong enough" to make the tough decisions and "conference" with her generals. These generals will never permit her to either de-escalate conflict or cut back on funding.

    Proof for my theory on this comes from:
    1) Chuck Hagel's having to step down - he was keen on reigning in the funding gone wild to the Pentagon. When he started to touch on foreign entity funding (egypt, israel, etc) he became a goner.
    2) Obama has been unable to disengage and even was forced to re-escalate in both theaters of war. The military media complex ramped up criticism of him around the time when the predictable unraveling of Iraq and Afghanistan began.

    What this means for Pashtuns and Afghanistan:

    These are the throes and the gasps of an empire in its red sun stage. The rise of trump points to native discontent. I have lived in all of the regions Trump has support. These regions are run down, factories are shut down, the supporters do not have the skill and wherewithal to compete with ther international competitors. The issue is that the Indian and Chinese as well as Mexicans merely are willing to work for a wage. They are not asking for goodies like healthcare, childcare funds, etc. The American worker is used to overtime pay and all of the above. Up till the 1990s a high school graduate with vocational training could make a decent living and afford middle class luxuries.

    That stability has vanished and a new paradigm has emerged (hence the need for the bread and circuses motif above).

    The lure of trying to pacify the middle east and far east as well as central asia has always been a sandtrap.

    The momentum of defeat is rather slow (but progressing) and the backward operating base of the insurgencies in both theaters of war are nearly untouchable.

    Saudi politically may be coming under greater scrutiny but a Clinton presidency may tamp down on that. And whatever the naysayers here may think, nuclear power does matter and Pakistan may be in a dangerous way but is not teetering.

    So the government behind the scenes will keep the US engaged in wars abroad while bread and circuses and greater taxation abounds.

    This could continue for a few decades but the demographics are a problem. The US population is aging and like her European counterparts her birthrate per household has gone below the 2.4 births to sustain a population. Some of this may be due to cultural shifts and changes and the economic challenges cited above. While the economic reports tout job growth, these are not high middle class income jobs with sustainability.

    All in all the current set up is leading to a slow failure in Afghanistan.

    The only benefit of Trump for them was he was asking questions of his advisors like "why can't we use a nuclear weapon if we have them?"

    This meant that he was willing to perhaps deploy the US military to be ferocious and annihalate its enemies. In the last debate he made a point about how commanders announce operations giving adversaries the time to flee. He said he preferred to hit cities hard first and then announce accomplishments.

    He also made realistic statements such as the purpose of Afghanistan being held was in no way to nation build (he would cut that) but to watch Pakistan's nuclear arsenal closely.

    So it will be an interesting era to enter post this election no matter who wins. The polls seem to allude to Clinton - which basically will seal the inevitable decline of Pax Americana.

    In a few hundred years they will write about the lure and allure of Afghanistan and that region and how so many generals failed to pacify the resistance (4 generals and counting including Mr. Petreus).
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

  • #2
    brothar, america now in steep decline. you better fast move now to saudi arabia before you starves in america.

    Comment


    • #3
      When I talk to people no matter what their education level is, they have a pretty good grasp of whats going on so it does not seem that the public is uninformed. The war on terror is 15 years old and people are sick of hearing about it in the media. They dont care about building democracies over seas. They care more about their jobs going over seas and that is the main message that Trump has leveraged. He made a mistake of surrounding himself around established politicians like Pence and Giuliani which showed that he is no longer independent and bought by special interests groups.

      After the election. Obama who promised to bring an end to Bush's policy expanded Bush/Cheney war on terror which brought more instability in the world. It seems likely that a Trump or a Clinton Administration would both continue it.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's very hard to predict which one is better/lesser of 2 evils.

        In recent memory, Democrats have been just as interventionist as Republicans. The current Dem has conducted far more drone strikes than anyone else. There's nearly no difference practically speaking.

        Most important thing I think is the deteriorating middle class. Globalization has punished the first world middle class by replacing them with cheap labor.

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        • #5
          Trump is better.

          Trump claims it is a one party system and that the whole thing is rigged which is why we are not seeing too much of a difference in policy. Foreign policy stays the same and domestic policy is fought over by defense contractors and social services contractors.

          Comment


          • #6
            Dude Trump is popular because he's protectionist. Wall with Mexico blocks illegal cheap labor from Mexico. He's even harping about renegotiating NAFTA which Americans blame for losing blue collar jobs. Truth about Muslim ban is not that it's because of terrorism, it's because their local labor class is already threatened... they're almost 100% certain more Muslims means less jobs for them. He keeps going on about bringing jobs back to the US away from China and India. lol... I hope corporations really do rule the world. People won't realize how good they've had it until things change.

            Most developed countries are feeling the pain of technological advancement and capitalism. Fact is US manufacturing and industrials are not flailing, they're doing well. People just happened to have been replaced by machines. Many fast food places have released beta versions of electronic locations i.e. McDonalds in the US somewhere (Arizona?) that had a fully automated location tried out.
            Last edited by Elite Pakhtun; 10-23-2016, 12:23 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by khushal View Post
              Trump is better.

              Trump claims it is a one party system and that the whole thing is rigged which is why we are not seeing too much of a difference in policy. Foreign policy stays the same and domestic policy is fought over by defense contractors and social services contractors.
              Anyone who wants to ally with Russia and Assad in Syria is not the better choice. There is a genocide of Sunnis in Syria.

              I would choose Hillary over Trump any day (Hillary who wants to arm FSA with more antiaircraft), and who will put in NFZ over Syria. Plus, IMO she will follow Obama's policy of a US exit from Afghanistan, gradual or slow as it is, it is an exit regardless.

              Keep in mind, calling for a NFZ over Syria does not bode well with American voters, but Hillary has been more clear about it now since she has a double digit lead over Trump.
              "The past is not my concern. The future is no longer my concern either. One minute. One minute of everything at once. And anything before is nothing. Everything after nothing. Nothing in comparison to that one minute."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Insight View Post
                Anyone who wants to ally with Russia and Assad in Syria is not the better choice. There is a genocide of Sunnis in Syria.

                I would choose Hillary over Trump any day (Hillary who wants to arm FSA with more antiaircraft), and who will put in NFZ over Syria. Plus, IMO she will follow Obama's policy of a US exit from Afghanistan, gradual or slow as it is, it is an exit regardless.

                Keep in mind, calling for a NFZ over Syria does not bode well with American voters, but Hillary has been more clear about it now since she has a double digit lead over Trump.

                Hahha really to hell with this Shia Sunni bullcrap. If they are not in the interest of future survival of pure Pashtun breed. I hope they die fast in the conflicts and wars created by superpowers and parasites.

                I hope we can unite and together our future offspring's can become a major ethnicity in this world. 2 billion true hardcore dedicated Pashtuns in the year 2300 would be a nice goal.
                To Paradise, with Pakhto, I will go.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Insight View Post
                  Anyone who wants to ally with Russia and Assad in Syria is not the better choice. There is a genocide of Sunnis in Syria.

                  I would choose Hillary over Trump any day (Hillary who wants to arm FSA with more antiaircraft), and who will put in NFZ over Syria. Plus, IMO she will follow Obama's policy of a US exit from Afghanistan, gradual or slow as it is, it is an exit regardless.

                  Keep in mind, calling for a NFZ over Syria does not bode well with American voters, but Hillary has been more clear about it now since she has a double digit lead over Trump.
                  His initial thought was to not get involved and criticized those that had got involved to spread western liberalism to people that did not want it.
                  "what the hell are we getting involved for"
                  Trump Says Women Like Burqas Because they Don’t Need to Wear Makeup - YouTube

                  Pence, Giuliani and Clinton are in the same boat who are warmongers who want to expand intervention. As long as Russia is engaged in Syria, an NFZ would be impossible. Obama had already tried it and that is what triggered Russia air force to be involved. American warplanes can not shoot down Russian aircraft. In that third debate where Clinton preferred an NFZ over Syria, she couldnt answer when pressed with how she would handle Russia.
                  Last edited by khushal; 10-27-2016, 10:20 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by khushal View Post
                    His initial thought was to not get involved and criticized those that had got involved to spread western liberalism to people that did not want it.
                    "what the hell are we getting involved for"
                    Trump Says Women Like Burqas Because they Don’t Need to Wear Makeup - YouTube

                    Pence, Giuliani and Clinton are in the same boat who are warmongers who want to expand intervention. As long as Russia is engaged in Syria, an NFZ would be impossible. Obama had already tried it and that is what triggered Russia air force to be involved. American warplanes can not shoot down Russian aircraft. In that third debate where Clinton preferred an NFZ over Syria, she couldnt answer when pressed with how she would handle Russia.
                    Israeli airforce (comprised of American made F15 and F16 jets) have carried out airstrikes on Assad regime bases, Iranian Revolutionary Guards, and Hezbollah in Syria BEFORE and AFTER Russia got involved. Russia has never responded to any of those airstrikes. In other words, Russian presence did not deter Israel from carrying out those airstrikes which targeted the Assad regime and his allies.

                    Here is just one example of an Israeli airstrike on Assad military sites at Damascus airport which took place last November 2015, a few months after Russian military intervened. They carried out several more airstrikes on Assad forces just weeks apart (I have posted nearly every instant that Israel has done this)

                    Report: Israeli Air Force Strikes Damascus Airport in Syria - The Atlantic

                    Turkey downed a Russian fighter jet last year too (in November), and Russia didn't do much about it except downgrade ties with Turkey.

                    And lastly, a supposed mistaken US airstrikes wiped out a whole Assad forces company (over 80 were killed, and 100s wounded).

                    U.S. admits carrying out airstrike that Russia says killed 62 Syrian soldiers - The Washington Post

                    Whether or not it was a mistake, all Russia did was say US carried out this airstrike on purpose. Russia did not defend Assad troops from those airstrikes.

                    So what I am pointing out is that Russia has not backed up it's supposed 'deterrence' with action. Killing civilians, bombing schools, IDP camps, hospitals may shock people with horror, but it does not show any Russian strength. At the end of the day, Putin is entirely powerless to stop Israeli jets from crossing into Syrian airspace and striking Russian allies Assad, Iran, and Hezbollah. If Russia can't even stand up to tiny little nation like Israel, what will it do when Clinton decided on NFZ. One can reasonably guess - nothing.
                    "The past is not my concern. The future is no longer my concern either. One minute. One minute of everything at once. And anything before is nothing. Everything after nothing. Nothing in comparison to that one minute."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Loy Afghanistan View Post
                      Hahha really to hell with this Shia Sunni bullcrap. If they are not in the interest of future survival of pure Pashtun breed. I hope they die fast in the conflicts and wars created by superpowers and parasites.

                      I hope we can unite and together our future offspring's can become a major ethnicity in this world. 2 billion true hardcore dedicated Pashtuns in the year 2300 would be a nice goal.
                      I strongly suggest you see a psychologist.
                      "The past is not my concern. The future is no longer my concern either. One minute. One minute of everything at once. And anything before is nothing. Everything after nothing. Nothing in comparison to that one minute."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Insight View Post
                        Israeli airforce (comprised of American made F15 and F16 jets) have carried out airstrikes on Assad regime bases, Iranian Revolutionary Guards, and Hezbollah in Syria BEFORE and AFTER Russia got involved. Russia has never responded to any of those airstrikes. In other words, Russian presence did not deter Israel from carrying out those airstrikes which targeted the Assad regime and his allies.

                        Here is just one example of an Israeli airstrike on Assad military sites at Damascus airport which took place last November 2015, a few months after Russian military intervened. They carried out several more airstrikes on Assad forces just weeks apart (I have posted nearly every instant that Israel has done this)

                        Report: Israeli Air Force Strikes Damascus Airport in Syria - The Atlantic

                        Turkey downed a Russian fighter jet last year too (in November), and Russia didn't do much about it except downgrade ties with Turkey.

                        And lastly, a supposed mistaken US airstrikes wiped out a whole Assad forces company (over 80 were killed, and 100s wounded).

                        U.S. admits carrying out airstrike that Russia says killed 62 Syrian soldiers - The Washington Post

                        Whether or not it was a mistake, all Russia did was say US carried out this airstrike on purpose. Russia did not defend Assad troops from those airstrikes.

                        So what I am pointing out is that Russia has not backed up it's supposed 'deterrence' with action. Killing civilians, bombing schools, IDP camps, hospitals may shock people with horror, but it does not show any Russian strength. At the end of the day, Putin is entirely powerless to stop Israeli jets from crossing into Syrian airspace and striking Russian allies Assad, Iran, and Hezbollah. If Russia can't even stand up to tiny little nation like Israel, what will it do when Clinton decided on NFZ. One can reasonably guess - nothing.
                        Its not about can Russia stop Israeli or US warpanes. Its about can the US stop Russian warplanes from flying in Syria. An NFZ means the US is telling everyone including Russia, they can not fly over Syria.
                        Last edited by khushal; 10-28-2016, 02:26 PM.

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