For those who undrestand Farsi: Real reason for fighting in Baghlan by a Tajik

[Shapur]

جنگ در بغلان رنگ قومی دارد

دیگران نمی گویند، از مقام ویا ثروت شان می هراسند. من هیچ چیزی برای از دست دادن ندارم و مسوولیت خود می دانم که شماری از سخنان را بدون کدام ترس وهراس بگویم؛ تا از این طریق حد اقل مسوولیت دینی و انسانی خود را ادا کنم.
از گذشته های دورتا آغاز شکل گیری حکومت جدید در سال 1381 خورشیدی، بغلان رنگ دیگر داشت، اما پس از شکست گروه تروریستی طالب و شکل گیری حکومت جدید، آرایش دیگری را به خود گرفت. باید گفت: از زمانه های خیلی دور، بغلان چهره اوغانی داشت؛ اوغانی به این مفهوم که شهروندان کشور فکر می کردند که اکثر باشنده های استان بغلان اوغان هستند وباقی اقوام دیگر.
این برداشت مردم چند دلیل داشت: نخست اداره مقام های محلی در بغلان مرکزی - جای که بیشترباشنده های آن اوغان است- قرارداشت. از سوی دیگر همه حاکمان محلی وقت بغلان مربوط یک گروه خاص بودند و دیگر این که زمین های زراعتی بغلان که در اطراف جاده عمومی قرارر دارد در اختیار اوغان ها است. براساس نقل بزرگان، باشنده های میدان وردک روزگاری مسوولیت آموزش وپرورش را در شهرستان های بغلان داشته اند. با توجه به دلایل گفته شده شهروندان کشور فکر می کرده اند که اکثر نفوس استان بغلان را اوغان ها شکل می دهد.
بازی پس از سال 1381 خورشیدی تغییر کرد. پس از سقوط طالبان فرمانده هان تاجیک وایماق از شهرسان های مختلف بغلان که در شکست گروه طالبان سهم داشتند وارد شهر پلخمری مرکز این ولایت شدند. این فرمانده هان برای این که بغلان را از چنگ طالبان رهایی داده بودند، با همکاری حکومت وقت در شهر پلخمری جای گزین شدند. اوغان ها که نفوس شان درشهرستان بغلان مرکزی و قسمتی از شهرستان های دهنه غوری و نهرین و برکه خلاصه می شود، نتوانسته اند در برابر جابجای تاجیک ها و ایماق ها در شهر پلخمری وانتقال اداره محلی به این شهر مقاومت کنند.
در زمان حکومت طالبان مناطق اوغان نشین بغلان از گروه طالبان حمایت می کردند. تاجیک ها و ایماق ها وازبیک های که در حکومت طالبان ستم برآنان روا دانسته شده بود، فرصت می طلبیدن تا از اوغان ها- هواداران طالب- انتقام بگیرند. اوغان های بغلان به این مساله رسیده بودند و به اصطلاح عام در تصمیم گیری های محلی خوده نمی خاریدن . همین بود که بغلان رنگ جدید به خود گرفت اوغان ها با وجود حمایت حکومت مرکزی به حاشیه را نده شدند.
در حال حاضر برخلاف گذشته اکثر ادارات محلی در بغلان از سوی تاجیک ها اداره می شود. در حاشیه راندن اوغان ها در بغلان، نقش اندرآبی ها مثل افتاب روشن است. درکنار این حضور سیاسی اندرآبی ها در بغلان به صورت واضح قابل لمس است . از سال 1381 خورشیدی تا کنون فرمانده امنیه و والی که ازسوی حکومت مرکزی به بغلان فرستاده می شود، باید رضایت اندرآبی ها به نحوی درنظر گرفته شود. مهم نیست که این رضایت از سوی حکومت مرکزی یا افراد مسول محلی گرفته می شود.
از موارد دیگر می گذریم. تظاهرات مردم بغلان وراندن جمعه خان همدرد والی وقت را از بغلان، دلیل انکار ناپذیر بر این مدعا می پندارم. قدرتمند بودن تاجیک ها وایماق ها به ویژه اندرآبی ها در بغلان قابل تحمل برای هیچ اوغان نیست. اوغان ها در بغلان با حمایت حکومت مرکزی در تلاش احیاء دوباره قدرت هستند وبرای رسیدن به این هدف از هیچ کاری روی نمی گردانند. در سیزده سال گذشته حکومت در پست های مهم محلی بغلان افراد قوم گرای را فرستاده تا بتواند اوغان ها را به هدف شان برسانند. به همین دلیل از گذشته تا کنون حکومت مرکزی علاقه ندار که طالبان بغلان را مورد عملیات شدید نظامی قرار دهد. زمانیکه شهید فرمانده داوود مسوولیت فرماندهی جنگ را در شمال به عهده داشت، با همکاری اندرآبی ها توانست چند عملیات را در ساحات بغلان راه اندازی کرد که پس از جانب حامدکرزی رییس جمهوری پیشین ممانعت شد.
پرسش این جاست که دلیل جنگ در بغلان چیست؟ تعداد زیادی ازاعضای شورای کویته پاکستان اوغان های بغلان مرکزی هستند که در گذشته فرمانده هان حزب اسلامی حکمتیاربودند. گروه طالبان جنگ شان را در بغلان بر اساس تبلیغات قومی بپیش می برند. شما اگر در مناطق اوغان نشین بغلان بروید حس می کنید که دیدگاه مردم عادی آنجا(مناطق اوغان نشین) در برابر تاجیک ها به ویژه اندرآبی ها چه گونه است.
اوغان های بغلان در تلاش هستند که بر هر قمیتی می شود، به زور گوی تاجیک ها به ویژه اندرآبی ها نقطه پایان دهند. به شهادت رساندن روسول خان- رییس پیشین شورای ولایتی- یکی از برنامه های کلان اوغان ها بود که عملی شد. طرح ترور رسول خان در شورای کویته ریخته شده بود وحتا یکی از اگاهان نظامی درآن زمان برایم گفت که فرد انتحاری تا مساعد شدن زمینه ترور رسول خان درخانه ی یکی از بزرگان اوغان در بغلان مرکزی نگهداری شده بود.
خلاصه جنگ طالبان بغلان روحیه قومی دارد، ختم این جنگ هم معلوم نیست که تا چه زمانی ادامه پیدا می کند. باید گفت که هم اکنون کسانی که دربرابر طالب در بغلان مرکزی ودهنه غوری می جنگند، اکثر شان غیر پشتون هستند. با وجود همکاری همه جانبه حکومت مرکزی، از روحیه حاکم در بغلان قسمی وا نمود می شود که اوغان ها آرمان دوباره یکه تازی شان را در بغلان، تومار ساخته وبا خود به گروستان ببرند.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Tajiks are like White nationalists. Their reasoning is similar to that of David Duke. Having all the cards in their hands and still fearing genocide and extinction by the hands of the 'inferior other'.

[Firdousi]

Tajiks are like White nationalists. Their reasoning is similar to that of David Duke. Having all the cards in their hands and still fearing genocide and extinction by the hands of the 'inferior other'.

Eh, no, we are not. Unlike White Americans who have never suffered oppression by non White Americans, we have suffered several times Pashtun oppression so we won't let that happen again. Now we have the resources, organization and means to thwart any Pashtun attempt to impose on us your barbaric tribalism.

BTW very few Tajiks consider Pashtun "inferior". Most of them respect Pashtuns. But I must say there is a growing nationalist minority among Tajik with a huge anti-Pashtun hatred. Many Tajik politicians in Afghanistan share this mentality. So be careful guys because you are playing with fire.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Eh, no, we are not. Unlike White Americans who have never suffered oppression by non White Americans, we have suffered several times Pashtun oppression so we won't let that happen again. Now we have the resources, organization and means to thwart any Pashtun attempt to impose on us your barbaric tribalism.

BTW very few Tajiks consider Pashtun "inferior". Most of them respect Pashtuns. But I must say there is a growing nationalist minority among Tajik with a huge anti-Pashtun hatred. Many Tajik politicians in Afghanistan share this mentality. So be careful guys because you are playing with fire.

When I mentioned David Duke, I was referring to you. Go read his books. He always claims he respects black people, Jews and Mexicans but then he goes on with his sorry and pathetic whining of how he as a white man is oppressed in America.

Tajiks have the exact same tendency. You are a perfect example. You have lived in liberty in Afghanistan and even if the royal family was Pashtun by origin, the public life in Afghanistan was always dominated by Tajiks. Farsi is by default the official language and Tajiks have never suffered from oppression by Pashtuns. Tajiks have had a very important role in politics, culture, economy and the arts. Pretty much dominated Afghanistan.

Sure, some Pashtun politicians have used the ethnic card but they have never managed to oppress or limit Tajiks liberties.

Only time in entire history of Afghanistan when Tajiks didnt' dominate Afghanistan was during the 5 years of Taliban. Even then, many Tajiks wer governors and major figures in Taliban council of Mullahs and were responsible for both policy and execution.

You are not getting any respect from anyone by continuously whining about how you are oppressed without any proof. Instead, you only alienate yourself by acting like an idiot.

If anyone has the right to genuinely complain about oppression, then it has to be the Hazara. But even Hazara's are no longer the oppressed minority .They have money, power and they influence Afghanistans internal and external policies.

I have nothing against Tajiks, but since I have both Tajik and Pashtun nationalists in my family, I can see world from their two opposing perspectives. What I have noticed is that both Pashtun nationalists and Tajik nationalists are extremely irrational and stupid. Especially the so called 'educated' ones. Those people are dumber than your average Trump supporter.

[Firdousi]

When I mentioned David Duke, I was referring to you. Go read his books. He always claims he respects black people, Jews and Mexicans but then he goes on with his sorry and pathetic whining of how he as a white man is oppressed in America.

Tajiks have the exact same tendency. You are a perfect example. You have lived in liberty in Afghanistan and even if the royal family was Pashtun by origin, the public life in Afghanistan was always dominated by Tajiks. Farsi is by default the official language and Tajiks have never suffered from oppression by Pashtuns. Tajiks have had a very important role in politics, culture, economy and the arts. Pretty much dominated Afghanistan.

Sure, some Pashtun politicians have used the ethnic card but they have never managed to oppress or limit Tajiks liberties.

Only time in entire history of Afghanistan when Tajiks didnt' dominate Afghanistan was during the 5 years of Taliban. Even then, many Tajiks wer governors and major figures in Taliban council of Mullahs and were responsible for both policy and execution.

You are not getting any respect from anyone by continuously whining about how you are oppressed without any proof. Instead, you only alienate yourself by acting like an idiot.

If anyone has the right to genuinely complain about oppression, then it has to be the Hazara. But even Hazara's are no longer the oppressed minority .They have money, power and they influence Afghanistans internal and external policies.

I have nothing against Tajiks, but since I have both Tajik and Pashtun nationalists in my family, I can see world from their two opposing perspectives. What I have noticed is that both Pashtun nationalists and Tajik nationalists are extremely irrational and stupid. Especially the so called 'educated' ones. Those people are dumber than your average Trump supporter.

Shamlawar, don't get me wrong: I DID NOT SAY that I respect Pashtuns. Honestly speaking I don't respect you. I don't give a cr*p about you. Actually I have several times said that I consider your tribal culture barbaric, violent and warmonger. Pashtun tribal culture is inferior to Persian urban culture. I just want you to stop being a constant pain in the a*s. I want you to stop being so violent and barbaric. You get it? Respect has nothing to do with this basically because I have no respect for Pashtuns.

Tajiks dominated everything because Tajik urban culture is superior to Pashtun tribal culture. Every barbaric tribal nation that has reached Persian land became educated thanks to Persian culture: Arabs, Turk-Monghols, Pashtuns, and so on. Tajiks have always been more educated than Pashtuns. Persian culture is much richer than Pashtun culture. Persians have made huge contributions to making while Pashtuns have made no positive contribution ever. I know I am being harsh now but you need to face the truth. If you want to rule this country you need Tajiks because without use nobody else have the skills to rule.

Tajik nationalism is a reaction to Pashtun antionalism. There was no Tajik or Hazara nationalism four decades ago. We just did not count. It was only Pashtun nationalism. Pashtuns controlled the army and the government. Pashtuns tried several times to pashtunize the country but since their culture is inferior they failed miserably.

Dont talk BS, buddy. I was in Herat when Taliban took over. They treated Herat as an occupied city. Most of the ruling Taliban class in there couldn't even speak Farsi and none of them was Herati. I remember how many of those dogs used to call Tajiks Sunnis "Shia dast-baste". Just because few Tajiks worked with them it doesn't mean they were tolerant toward Tajiks.

[Firdousi]

This guy is so hilarious. He wants me to believe that Taliban are not threat for us. Taliban are systematically butchering their own Pashtun people. Just image what would do if they manage to get their dirty hands on us.

Pashtuns started ethnic fascism/nationalism in Afghanistan. Now stop bitch*ng. Its all your own fault. You should blame only yourselves.

[khushal]

[MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION].
Your contradicting yourself.
First you claim to be oppressed by pashtuns, then you claim that you ruled Afghan politics because your culture is superior.

It seems like you want to play the victim and claim dominance at the same time.

This guy is so hilarious. He wants me to believe that Taliban are not threat for us. Taliban are systematically butchering their own Pashtun people. Just image what would do if they manage to get their dirty hands on us.

Werent the taliban a reaction to lawlessness that Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek and Pashtun warlords had created. Is it not natural for a group to rise and eventually bring some sort of law and order. Most of the country was taken without a fight by the Taliban. The only real resistance came from Mazar and Panjshir.

Pashtuns started ethnic fascism/nationalism in Afghanistan. Now stop bitch*ng. Its all your own fault. You should blame only yourselves.

Nationalism/fascism in Afghanistan is a myth. It does not exist. The current leaders in the Afghan gov would not last a week without US money and support. They are not in place by people power.

[Firdousi]

[MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION].
Your contradicting yourself.
First you claim to be oppressed by pashtuns, then you claim that you ruled Afghan politics because your culture is superior.

It seems like you want to play the victim and claim dominance at the same time.



Werent the taliban a reaction to lawlessness that Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek and Pashtun warlords had created. Is it not natural for a group to rise and eventually bring some sort of law and order. Most of the country was taken without a fight by the Taliban. The only real resistance came from Mazar and Panjshir.



Nationalism/fascism in Afghanistan is a myth. It does not exist. The current leaders in the Afghan gov would not last a week without US money and support. They are not in place by people power.

I did not say Tajiks ruled Afghanistan. I said Tajiks held high positions in Afghanistan because they are mainly an urban ethnic group. Most of the educated people in Afghanistan were Tajiks or Persianspeaker Pashuns. So our Pashtun leaders had to rely on us if they really wanted run a stable state. When Taliban took over Kabul one of their first measures was to kick out all non Pashtuns from bureaucracy. Do you know what happened to Afghanistan? It just collapsed.

Most of the southern and eastern Pashtun tribal belt were taken without a fight. There was huge fighting in Herat, Farah, Kunduz, Taloqan, Mazar, Kabul, Shamali, etc.

Fascism is not a myth. Its a fact. Current Afghan government despite being corrupt is recognized by vast majority of Afghans as the legitimate "government" of Afghanistan.

[khushal]

I did not say Tajiks ruled Afghanistan. I said Tajiks held high positions in Afghanistan because they are mainly an urban ethnic group. Most of the educated people in Afghanistan were Tajiks or Persianspeaker Pashuns. So our Pashtun leaders had to rely on us if they really wanted run a stable state.

Your playing victim and boasting at the same time. What your saying is incorrect. Tajiks did not hold high positions in the gov or the Army. The vast majority of high positions were held by Pashtuns, some were persianized, some were not and it had nothing to do with urban culture. It had more to do with Tribal affiliation and how important you were to the monarchy. If a Tajik had held a high position, it is because he had proved his worth to the monarchy ie had delivered his people to pledge allegiance to the king.

When Taliban took over Kabul one of their first measures was to kick out all non Pashtuns from bureaucracy. Do you know what happened to Afghanistan? It just collapsed.

The Afghan gov had collapsed in 92. Anyone that knew how to run a gov were either killed or ran away.

Most of the southern and eastern Pashtun tribal belt were taken without a fight. There was huge fighting in Herat, Farah, Kunduz, Taloqan, Mazar, Kabul, Shamali, etc.

site some sources. Except for Mazar and Panjshir the rest of the country was taken in a little over a year. People were sick of the warlords and wanted the justice of the mullah.

Fascism is not a myth. Its a fact. Current Afghan government despite being corrupt is recognized by vast majority of Afghans as the legitimate "government" of Afghanistan.

Why cant those people defend it then. Why rely on American soldiers and airpower.

[Firdousi]

Your playing victim and boasting at the same time. What your saying is incorrect. Tajiks did not hold high positions in the gov or the Army. The vast majority of high positions were held by Pashtuns, some were persianized, some were not and it had nothing to do with urban culture. It had more to do with Tribal affiliation and how important you were to the monarchy. If a Tajik had held a high position, it is because he had proved his worth to the monarchy ie had delivered his people to pledge allegiance to the king.




The Afghan gov had collapsed in 92. Anyone that knew how to run a gov were either killed or ran away.



site some sources. Except for Mazar and Panjshir the rest of the country was taken in a little over a year. People were sick of the warlords and wanted the justice of the mullah.



Why cant those people defend it then. Why rely on American soldiers and airpower.

You admit Pashtuns were fascists that oppressed and discriminated their fellow non Pashtun brothers? Thank you for proving me right.

Its pretty obvious you have never been to Afghanistan. Most of the government did not collapse after the mujahedeen take over. Schools, ministries, police,.. etc most of them did not collapse. People were working in there. It was when the taliban took over when the whole system collapsed. I was in there during the civil war. They kicked everyone out in Kabul and Herat basically because Tajik or Persianspeaker meant Massoud or Iran to those uneducated fools. Most of them didn't even speak Farsi.

Huge battles took place in Shindand, Farah, Faryab, Takhar, etc. Only in the battle of Taloqan Mssoud lost 600 soldiers (Taliban lost around 3000. They still won). You seem to be an extremely biased person. No wonder you blame Massoud for everything. Honestly after witnessing how every time we talk about him you Pashtun nationalists lose your cool I am starting to like him even more lol

[Firdousi]

Why cant those people defend it then. Why rely on American soldiers and airpower.

What the hell are you talking about? There almost 300000 soldiers and police in Afghanistan. Afghans are between the rock and a hard place. They got to choose between a bunch of tribal animals and a corrupt government. But most of the people consider the government "legit". Nobody likes Taliban basically because they are considered a tribal Pashtun terrorist group, a Pakistani proxy. Even your fellow Pashtuns despise them (not all of them of course but many)

[khushal]

What the hell are you talking about? There almost 300000 soldiers and police in Afghanistan. Afghans are between the rock and a hard place. They got to choose between a bunch of tribal animals and a corrupt government. But most of the people consider the government "legit". Nobody likes Taliban basically because they are considered a tribal Pashtun terrorist group, a Pakistani proxy. Even your fellow Pashtuns despise them (not all of them of course but many)

are you talking about the legit gov that has ghost soldiers:
U.S. watchdog questions money spent on Afghan 'ghost' soldiers
| Reuters

and builds ghost schools with ghost students:
Tens of Millions Wasted on "Ghost" Schools, and That’s Just the Tip of the Iceberg | Mother Jones

I wonder why people are fighting this legit government. It has done so much for its people.

[khushal]

You admit Pashtuns were fascists that oppressed and discriminated their fellow non Pashtun brothers? Thank you for proving me right.

Its pretty obvious you have never been to Afghanistan. Most of the government did not collapse after the mujahedeen take over. Schools, ministries, police,.. etc most of them did not collapse. People were working in there. It was when the taliban took over when the whole system collapsed. I was in there during the civil war. They kicked everyone out in Kabul and Herat basically because Tajik or Persianspeaker meant Massoud or Iran to those uneducated fools. Most of them didn't even speak Farsi.

Huge battles took place in Shindand, Farah, Faryab, Takhar, etc. Only in the battle of Taloqan Mssoud lost 600 soldiers (Taliban lost around 3000. They still won). You seem to be an extremely biased person. No wonder you blame Massoud for everything. Honestly after witnessing how every time we talk about him you Pashtun nationalists lose your cool I am starting to like him even more lol

You seem to be a little slow. The capital was looted, women raped, kabul was shelled daily, there was no law and order. The whole city was destroyed The gun was the law. The army split between many factions. Every city had its own civil war between rival warlords. This went on until 96 when the taliban brought some law and order to the society which is why no one resisted them except for the most powerful warlords ie dostom and massoud.

[Azmal]

Eh, no, we are not. Unlike White Americans who have never suffered oppression by non White Americans, we have suffered several times Pashtun oppression so we won't let that happen again. Now we have the resources, organization and means to thwart any Pashtun attempt to impose on us your barbaric tribalism.

BTW very few Tajiks consider Pashtun "inferior". Most of them respect Pashtuns. But I must say there is a growing nationalist minority among Tajik with a huge anti-Pashtun hatred. Many Tajik politicians in Afghanistan share this mentality. So be careful guys because you are playing with fire.

Lets compare who are more Barbaric....Bachi Saqaw to that of Amanullah--taking power from him and destroying Afghan state....70 years later Massod to Najib--preventing UN peace plan---Jabarul Saraj treaty--again destroying Afghan state yet could not venture 5 miles east of Kabul river.
Rest there is never been a Tajik ruler in history..except king of Kulab/Punjshir holes and Charakar water boy.

[Azmal]

When I mentioned David Duke, I was referring to you. Go read his books. He always claims he respects black people, Jews and Mexicans but then he goes on with his sorry and pathetic whining of how he as a white man is oppressed in America.

Tajiks have the exact same tendency. You are a perfect example. You have lived in liberty in Afghanistan and even if the royal family was Pashtun by origin, the public life in Afghanistan was always dominated by Tajiks. Farsi is by default the official language and Tajiks have never suffered from oppression by Pashtuns. Tajiks have had a very important role in politics, culture, economy and the arts. Pretty much dominated Afghanistan.

Sure, some Pashtun politicians have used the ethnic card but they have never managed to oppress or limit Tajiks liberties.

Only time in entire history of Afghanistan when Tajiks didnt' dominate Afghanistan was during the 5 years of Taliban. Even then, many Tajiks wer governors and major figures in Taliban council of Mullahs and were responsible for both policy and execution.

You are not getting any respect from anyone by continuously whining about how you are oppressed without any proof. Instead, you only alienate yourself by acting like an idiot.

If anyone has the right to genuinely complain about oppression, then it has to be the Hazara. But even Hazara's are no longer the oppressed minority .They have money, power and they influence Afghanistans internal and external policies.

I have nothing against Tajiks, but since I have both Tajik and Pashtun nationalists in my family, I can see world from their two opposing perspectives. What I have noticed is that both Pashtun nationalists and Tajik nationalists are extremely irrational and stupid. Especially the so called 'educated' ones. Those people are dumber than your average Trump supporter.

Farsi is language of Fars---what does Tajiks has to do with it? Other then adopting it, you can not find a single Tajik poets worth his name---even Ayar e Khorassan--Ustad Khalili was a Pashtun Safi--his father was hanged by Amanullah khan---thus his aversion. The problem is not flat hated Tazi the problem is Pashtun....if Pashtuns were united....if if if if if if ......