is there a divide between Pakistani and Afghan Pashtuns?

[Karachi]

as a non pashtun I want to understand this, is there a divide of opinion between the two? why do pakistani pashtuns (majority) of them want to be with the Pakistani state? what is the exact reason? I have met some pakistani pashtuns here who dont even like Afghan pashtuns for example, they call them (muhajirs) which is a actually a insulting term used for afghans in pakistan and hindustani people in Karachi. Why would anyone insult their own kind this way? when and where did this divide develop? why do pakistani pashtuns want to be with a desi country (pakistan), where 70% of the population in desi? and not with their own people across the border?

There are so many questions

[Aryana]

Unfortunately, Porkistanis have blasted Pashtuns on their side with so much propaganda that they even believe that they have more rights (as a Pashtun) in Porkistan than in Afghanistan. Across the Internet, Porkistani Pashtuns have repeatedly shown their obvious case of sever Stockholm Syndrome, in fact in some cases they are more patriotic than the Poonjabis themselves. Poonjabis spit on Pashtuns, and yet they have more pride in Porkistan than any ethnic group in Porkistan. Here is a link that explains it all:

Stockholm syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Easy Paki Pashtuns are pretty much desis at this point. In real life you wont see the same kind of bending over and ass kissing that afghans have given them on this forum at least compared to afghans iv met. Paki Pashtuns are only Paki when it benefits them and Afghan when it benefits. Though I am a fan of Quetta Pashtuns as I have heard they are pretty much Kandhari.

You are not a Pashtun. And here you are deciding who is a better Pashtun and who isn'tz

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

The dirt on the shoes of Pashtuns from KPK & FATA is better than these fake Pashtuns like Aryana & FootBall who can't even speak Pashto.

[Forreigner]

Easy Paki Pashtuns are pretty much desis at this point. In real life you wont see the same kind of bending over and ass kissing that afghans have given them on this forum at least compared to afghans iv met. Paki Pashtuns are only Paki when it benefits them and Afghan when it benefits. Though I am a fan of Quetta Pashtuns as I have heard they are pretty much Kandhari.

I find this to be true. Paki pathans on the internet identify as Pakistani, but when it comes to history, culture, etc. they want to identify as afghan. these guys should know you can't identify as a pakistani (take national pride in pakistan, a fake recent nation) and at the same time call yourself an afghan. simply impossible. Pakistan is said to be the number 1 enemy of Afghanistan.

[marwat]

as a non pashtun I want to understand this, is there a divide of opinion between the two? why do pakistani pashtuns (majority) of them want to be with the Pakistani state? what is the exact reason? I have met some pakistani pashtuns here who dont even like Afghan pashtuns for example, they call them (muhajirs) which is a actually a insulting term used for afghans in pakistan and hindustani people in Karachi. Why would anyone insult their own kind this way? when and where did this divide develop? why do pakistani pashtuns want to be with a desi country (pakistan), where 70% of the population in desi? and not with their own people across the border?

There are so many questions

because most people only care about tangible assets and materialistic benefits. culture,kin,tradition,language and history does not matter to them, a big dall plate, bunglawo, car, patloon and girl friend that's what actually matter. people majority are naturally selfish, they would not think beyond their kid future, why would they ask for trouble which may be prolonged for decades of war and anarchy and will cost them their kid future.
there are very few rebellious mind and true bazigar. this is universally applicable and pashtun are not specific.
another reason is majority pathan in pakistan have either non tribal pashtun roots or indianised with pashtun roots, for them pakistan is the best choice, they know pashtun will not accept them any way.

[Golden]

There is no divide, 5 million afghani muhajirs are ready to give up Afghan citizenship for Pakistani one if allowed. If afghan refugees hated Pakistanis then why they have married so many afghan girls to punjabis? You don't give hand of your daughter to enemy.

Now coming back to why KPK or for that matter other provinces also want them out. Main reason is economic and after that terrorism, crimes, drugs, guns, car thefts, kidnappings etc Plus firing at Pakistani workers at Torkham border have made things worst.

In punjab there is a saying, afghan first will rent house and after some time by working at dirt cheap rates he will buy it. Afghan undercut punjabi workers and are ready to do any work for less. This have effected poor people in rural punjab who already don't get paid much anyway. Now afghans own many illegal properties and businesses in Pakistan. They should sell them and go back while they can before goverment take them by force. This will mean native unemployed Pakistanis will take over their businesses and other work they do.

[Golden]

another reason is majority pathan in pakistan have either non tribal pashtun roots or indianised with pashtun roots, for them pakistan is the best choice, they know pashtun will not accept them any way.

This is interesting, in south punjab majority of baloch speak seraiki language yet this didn't stop Balochistan parties demanding some districts of south punjab to be made part of Balochistan.

[marwat]

This is interesting, in south punjab majority of baloch speak seraiki language yet this didn't stop Balochistan parties demanding some districts of south punjab to be made part of Balochistan.

this scenario comes within a state boundaries, which is a different. you did not point out whether these seraiki speaking baloch adhere to the demand or not?

[Karachi]

There is no divide, 5 million afghani muhajirs are ready to give up Afghan citizenship for Pakistani one if allowed. If afghan refugees hated Pakistanis then why they have married so many afghan girls to punjabis? You don't give hand of your daughter to enemy.

Now coming back to why KPK or for that matter other provinces also want them out. Main reason is economic and after that terrorism, crimes, drugs, guns, car thefts, kidnappings etc Plus firing at Pakistani workers at Torkham border have made things worst.

In punjab there is a saying, afghan first will rent house and after some time by working at dirt cheap rates he will buy it. Afghan undercut punjabi workers and are ready to do any work for less. This have effected poor people in rural punjab who already don't get paid much anyway. Now afghans own many illegal properties and businesses in Pakistan. They should sell them and go back while they can before goverment take them by force. This will mean native unemployed Pakistanis will take over their businesses and other work they do.

do you have proof of this???

[Shapur]

Easy Paki Pashtuns are pretty much desis at this point. In real life you wont see the same kind of bending over and ass kissing that afghans have given them on this forum at least compared to afghans iv met. Paki Pashtuns are only Paki when it benefits them and Afghan when it benefits. Though I am a fan of Quetta Pashtuns as I have heard they are pretty much Kandhari.

Have you ever been to Pakhtunkhwa in your life? The Afghans you have met might be mixed Pashtuns or those who have no clue about their bretheren in Pakistan. I have been all over Pakhtunkhwa and they are more Afghan/Pashtun than many many Pashtuns in Afghanistan who can't even speak their language. Ofcourse over time, some Pashtun in Pakistan have adopted Desi things such as certain foods, clothing etc but that is mainly confined to Peshawar and other areas which were originally Desi anyways. The Pashtuns of rural areas are not that desified compared to Urban ones. Just like the Mohammadzi, popalzi etc of Kabul have become persianised. The rest of differences are natural due to geography and different tribes who have their unique traits despite being Pashtun. A kandahari Pashtun dresses, speaks, differently than a Laghmani Pashtun. Some Pashtuns in Afghanistan do Attan and don't, just like thise in Pakistan.

[Khostai]

I came a few Paki Pashtuns in my life and most anoying part of them is the use of English and Urdu words with Hindu accent when they try to speak Pashtu. Just listen to Khyber TV,,,that chanel is one big cringe, thats how all Paki Pashtuns I came across speak... for the rest they are oke people, but quite brainwashed in to thinking that pakistan is the best country and is a muslim super power, yes some of them told me that pakistan is a super power and is stronger than china and could easily take over USA if they wanted to.... -__-

[Shapur]

I have never been to Khyber. The Afghans I am talking about are full Pashtuns who have lived in Peshawar and surrounding areas before coming to the west. That sentence of them being more Afghan/Pashtun than an actual Afghan/Pashtun is the exact kind of Paki bias BS that I hate about this forum. Regardless of where they are more likely than not their loyalties are to Pakistan and not to Afghanistan unless they are from Quetta. Thus there is no way in hell they are more Afghan than even a watan frosh like Ahmad Shah Massoud or any other piece of trash who contributed to the civil war.

I'll tell you right now the three types of Paki Pashtuns who I have met in my life:
1. Is Afghan when speaking to Afghans and is Paki when speaking to everyone else.
2. Does not consider themselves Porki, usually from Quetta.
3. Born in the West, does not even speak Pashto but speaks Urdu, and calls themselves Pathan.

The Persianization of Pashtuns in Afghanistan is the Persian culture of the country of Pashtuns Afghanistan. Every single great leader of our history post Islam has been Persianized.

I don't want to be harsh but your knowledge of Pashtuns of Pakhtunkhwa is based on google books and western immigrant Pashtuns. You seem to imply Pashtunness of a person is determined by their allegiance to the state of Afghanistan which is a false assumption on your part. What makes a person Pashtun is their allegiance to Pashto not the state that they live in. You can be a proud Pakistani and a proud Pashtun at the same time because being Pakistani is about citizenship and not ethnicity or nationhood. Pakistan is federal state with each province clearly having a distinct culture, language etc. Are you telling me Ahmad Shah Massoud is more Pashtun than Hamza baba, Khyal Mohammad etc who were from Pakistan? If so, then you are clearly delusional and don't know what you are talking about.

How can an imaginary line drawn by the British magically turn Pashtuns on either side into different people? What kind of logic is this. The differences amongst Pashtuns are not due to which side of Durand Line they live but more to do with which tribes and geographic location they belong to. A Pashtun from Quetta is closer to a Pashtun from Kandahar than a Pashtun from Peshawar eventhough both are from Pakistan. Similarly a Pashtun from Kunar is closer to a Pashtun from across the Durand Line in Bajaur Pakistan than to a Kandahari Pashtun from Afghanistan. A wazir is closer to a khostai than to a Peshawari and so on.

I am myself from northern Afghanistan, a Ghiljai Pashtu, so don't assume I am being biased.

[Firdousi]

I don't want to be harsh but your knowledge of Pashtuns of Pakhtunkhwa is based on google books and western immigrant Pashtuns. You seem to imply Pashtunness of a person is determined by their allegiance to the state of Afghanistan which is a false assumption on your part. What makes a person Pashtun is their allegiance to Pashto not the state that they live in. You can be a proud Pakistani and a proud Pashtun at the same time because being Pakistani is about citizenship and not ethnicity or nationhood. Pakistan is federal state with each province clearly having a distinct culture, language etc. Are you telling me Ahmad Shah Massoud is more Pashtun than Hamza baba, Khyal Mohammad etc who were from Pakistan? If so, then you are clearly delusional and don't know what you are talking about.

How can an imaginary line drawn by the British magically turn Pashtuns on either side into different people? What kind of logic is this. The differences amongst Pashtuns are not due to which side of Durand Line they live but more to do with which tribes and geographic location they belong to. A Pashtun from Quetta is closer to a Pashtun from Kandahar than a Pashtun from Peshawar eventhough both are from Pakistan. Similarly a Pashtun from Kunar is closer to a Pashtun from across the Durand Line in Bajaur Pakistan than to a Kandahari Pashtun from Afghanistan. A wazir is closer to a khostai than to a Peshawari and so on.

I am myself from northern Afghanistan, a Ghiljai Pashtu, so don't assume I am being biased.

Where are you from, Shapur khan? Your name is Persian.

[Shapur]

Where are you from, Shapur khan? Your name is Persian.

I was born in Kabul but parents are from Shamali so I am Kabuli. My ancestors were most probably from Ghazni.