Pakistani Pashtuns burning Afghanistan´s flag

[Rooh]

Its pure logic. I am not 100% unhappy with current statu quo. It benefits us. But I forgot to mention one third option, actually: Taliban take over. That would be a lose-lose for Pashtuns and Tajiks.

Honestly I don't think Afghanistan will be divided unless Taliban manage to take over southern and eastern provinces. So far they are proving to be unable to do so. So Persianization of this country is the only way left. We will never learn Pashto while Pashtuns speak Farsi. And with Iran becoming the main regional power you should expect this getting worse (for you, not for us)... so...

I promised that I will not be here till Ranzan is over, but there is nothing wrong with Pashtun people. Pashtuns assimilate very well in outside cultures, but you seem to keep humiliating them. Stop this Tajik propaganda. Most people and especially villagers just want to live in peace.

Take care and live in peace brother.

[Manzareh]

[MENTION=19435]Iblis_Efreetzai[/MENTION]

I wouldn't waste too much time on this Fir'dawoos' guy, he is intellectually incompetent to handle a reasonable debate, he is just a troll thriving on angering people with futile comments, you can tell by his speech how immature his mindset actually is; "tajik culture would beat pashtun culture any day of the week" sounds like something a 5 year old would say, cringing.

Think about it, how many Tajik's do you come across online that act brave with us? they are everywhere from youtube to forums to blogs.. how many tajikis show this bravery in real life? zero. He is not interested in any reform or not, rather this is how his type's air out their frustration of not having the courage to confront us in person, its fine they need to vent out in one way or another.

The reason why i am saying Firdawoosa is irrelevant and his opinions are worth nothing is because he is sitting in the west blabbering on about reforms in Afghanistan, but based on his proposals of 'carpet bombing half the country' and building an apartheid regime (still think he doesn't have a nefarious agenda?) a dialogue with such an individual is big waste time. He's just trolling and taking advantage of our passive administrators allowing his racism.

[Manzareh]

[MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION] AKA Firdawoos, when a tajiki wins a nobel prize, becomes an astronaut and visits out of space then come back and speak to us .. right now your nothing more than cheap 'made in china' plastic version of Iranians (real persians) with no accomplishments in the world.. man you don't even have your own language, you will always be in the shadows or a 'side man' lol

[Firdousi]

Sure there are things that concern me about Pashtun culture that I think Pashtuns should evolve from, but there's a lot I find beautiful about it as well that I think should remain and I feel form the backbone of it. Likewise with Tajiks. Your statements are really just based on news headlines and not an indepth exposure to Pashtun culture. It's not this monolithic slab of cut throat tyranny you seem to think it is. This "Perian culture beats Pashtun" culture ranting is simply juvenile and if that's what you think represents a better culture, then by doing so you invalidate the proposition.

I don't care about the beautiful things in your culture. It does not affect me. Its the bad things about your culture that I am afraid of. Of course the average Pashtun is not Taliban but once again we are not discussing people but rather your warmonger culture. Whether you like it or not Pashtun culture promotes violence. More than other cultures. And hell yeah, Persian culture beats Pashtun culture in everything: art, literature, poetry, cuisine, carpets, mythology, folklore, philosophy, architecture and so on.

[Firdousi]

[MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION] AKA Firdawoos, when a tajiki wins a nobel prize, becomes an astronaut and visits out of space then come back and speak to us .. right now your nothing more than cheap 'made in china' plastic version of Iranians (real persians) with no accomplishments in the world.. man you don't even have your own language, you will always be in the shadows or a 'side man' lol

Dont kid yourself. Both, Malala and Mohmand, were part of political move by USA and URSS. Pure propaganda. Malala is used by the USA as tool against he Islamic world. Mohmand was used by the URSS as a "gesture of good will" toward Afghanistan (HE DID NOTHING UP THERE. ONLY BREW SOME TEA FOR REST OF THE CREW LOL). So.. you are happy about this? lol

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I don't care about the beautiful things in your culture. It does not affect me. Its the bad things about your culture that I am afraid of. Of course the average Pashtun is not Taliban but once again we are not discussing people but rather your warmonger culture. Whether you like it or not Pashtun culture promotes violence. More than other cultures. And hell yeah, Persian culture beats Pashtun culture in everything: art, literature, poetry, cuisine, carpets, mythology, folklore, philosophy, architecture and so on.

Well if you don't care about looking at the beauties of Pashtun culture along with the drawbacks; that demonstrates you're not being objective, which contradicts your original claim that you're being logical and also affirms you have ideological motives rather than factual motives for your arguments.

Claiming Pashtun culture promotes violence is not the same as saying there's violence among Pashtuns. The former as it stands at the moment is a demagogic remark. The other stuff is incredibly subjective, and thus there's no evidence that makes the claim true.

But you're entitled to keep telling yourself otherwise if it helps you sleep better at night.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

[MENTION=1753]Manzareh[/MENTION]

The reason I'm taking a diplomatic approach is because I feel that part of the reason Firdousi acts out the way he does is because he's faced some really rude and hostile behavior here by the self proclaimed "Pashtun Nationalists" (some, like Afghanfootball, don't even speak a word of Pashto or have legitimate Pashtun lineage). Some of the remarks he makes mimics comments that people like Afghanfootball make, at the same time I don't believe he came here without some degree of being confrontational in mind.

Ultimately rhetoric that they make is to try and stir enmity between Pashtuns and Tajiks, which is something we don't need. He wants to get rises out of people like yourself and myself so that he can take the statements of context and then turn around and say "See look at how Pashtuns hate us". It may seem irrelevant, but planting these seeds seem to be what demogogues aim at doing.

We should do everything in our power, whether something as seemingly inconsequential as a forum post or otherwise to build positive relationships with people and to marginalize divisive voices. Standing above divisive voices is one way we can do that.

This goes across the board, between Afghans and Pakistani Pashtuns or between Tajiks and Pashtuns or even Non-Pashtun Pakistanis, Iranians or anyone else.









But that's why

[Firdousi]

Well if you don't care about looking at the beauties of Pashtun culture along with the drawbacks; that demonstrates you're not being objective, which contradicts your original claim that you're being logical and also affirms you have ideological motives rather than factual motives for your arguments.

Claiming Pashtun culture promotes violence is not the same as saying there's violence among Pashtuns. The former as it stands at the moment is a demagogic remark. The other stuff is incredibly subjective, and thus there's no evidence that makes the claim true.

But you're entitled to keep telling yourself otherwise if it helps you sleep better at night.

Dude, every culture got positive aspects. Indeed thats great but it does not affect me negatively. Its the "bad" aspects of your culture that I dislike basically because they are a direct threat to my own identity. Please, when it comes to Tajik or Uzbek culture, do you think they are a threat to Pashtun people? Do you see Tajiks wearing a suicide vest and blowing themselves up in "your provinces"? NO. Its always the other way around. You must understand that for many of us Pashtunism is a threat and we will fight to death against it. Why its so difficult to you to accept such a obvious reality?

[Firdousi]

[MENTION=1753]Manzareh[/MENTION]

The reason I'm taking a diplomatic approach is because I feel that part of the reason Firdousi acts out the way he does is because he's faced some really rude and hostile behavior here by the self proclaimed "Pashtun Nationalists" (some, like Afghanfootball, don't even speak a word of Pashto or have legitimate Pashtun lineage). Some of the remarks he makes mimics comments that people like Afghanfootball make, at the same time I don't believe he came here without some degree of being confrontational in mind.

Ultimately rhetoric that they make is to try and stir enmity between Pashtuns and Tajiks, which is something we don't need. He wants to get rises out of people like yourself and myself so that he can take the statements of context and then turn around and say "See look at how Pashtuns hate us". It may seem irrelevant, but planting these seeds seem to be what demogogues aim at doing.

We should do everything in our power, whether something as seemingly inconsequential as a forum post or otherwise to build positive relationships with people and to marginalize divisive voices. Standing above divisive voices is one way we can do that.

This goes across the board, between Afghans and Pakistani Pashtuns or between Tajiks and Pashtuns or even Non-Pashtun Pakistanis, Iranians or anyone else.









But that's why

This is just a perfect comment. Nothing to complain about. 100% agree.

[Manzareh]

Dont kid yourself. Both, Malala and Mohmand, were part of political move by USA and URSS. Pure propaganda. Malala is used by the USA as tool against he Islamic world. Mohmand was used by the URSS as a "gesture of good will" toward Afghanistan (HE DID NOTHING UP THERE. ONLY BREW SOME TEA FOR REST OF THE CREW LOL). So.. you are happy about this? lol

So you were with him in space and new what he done? lol talk facts not your own nonsense please, but yes a Pashtun HAS been into space, so we are very happy, how many takijis have graduated through rocket science?? lol also whatever the reasons are in your personal opinions we have a Nobel Prize. So, once you people even come close to just those two achievements then maybe you have a leg to stand on, but right now you are not qualified to talk. that is without mentioning some of biggest Doctors, surgeons, engineers being Pashtuns.. where are the tajikees in global professionalism? you are nobody's.

[Manzareh]

Dude, every culture got positive aspects. Indeed thats great but it does not affect me negatively. Its the "bad" aspects of your culture that I dislike basically because they are a direct threat to my own identity. Please, when it comes to Tajik or Uzbek culture, do you think they are a threat to Pashtun people? Do you see Tajiks wearing a suicide vest and blowing themselves up in "your provinces"? NO. Its always the other way around. You must understand that for many of us Pashtunism is a threat and we will fight to death against it. Why its so difficult to you to accept such a obvious reality?

forget provinces you people travel to countries for terrorism:

Tajikistan police chief defects to Isis | World news | The Guardian

You have alot to worry about, i dont blame you being scared of warriors.. we are a threat to your existence, soon tajikis will only be in tajikistan, i would say Iran but Iranians wont really except you, they look down on you lol

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

There was this Khorasani guy on defence.pk, telling Pakistanis that Tajiks have no enmity with Punjabis , and that Tajiks and Punjabis should join their hands together against "cave-men" , monkeys and barbarians of FATA and Afghanistan.......Defence.pk is a site of hardcore Pakistani nationalists....the response there to your hate-mongering Tajik was mixed. Some did not like the hate-mongering against their Pashtun countrymen but most of them were intrigued by the idea that Tajiks and Punjabis can be on the same page.....most of them are under the impression that its "Northern alliance" guys who are venomously anti-pakistani in Afghanistan and are friends of India. I wonder if you are that "Khurasani" guy who briefly appeared in defence.pk?......

You are advising Afghan-Pashtun in this thread not to trust Pashtun of Pakistan but your every second post is against Afghan-Pashtun, your countrymen. You show your intense hatred for Pakistan and Pakistanis on whims , and now you are hoping for Tajik-Pakistan friendship?......you are a very big troll

Tajik fascists are on the same page with any enemy of Afghanistan. Be it Iran, Russia or Punjab. They consider Pashtun dominance in Afghanistan as the major reason for the current state of affairs. War, poverty, corruption and lack of education are all caused by Pashtuns, they say.

This type of hatred for Pashtuns is very common among certain groups of Tajiks, Hazara's and Uzbeks.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Dude, every culture got positive aspects. Indeed thats great but it does not affect me negatively. Its the "bad" aspects of your culture that I dislike basically because they are a direct threat to my own identity. Please, when it comes to Tajik or Uzbek culture, do you think they are a threat to Pashtun people? Do you see Tajiks wearing a suicide vest and blowing themselves up in "your provinces"? NO. Its always the other way around. You must understand that for many of us Pashtunism is a threat and we will fight to death against it. Why its so difficult to you to accept such a obvious reality?

I see what you're saying, but I don't think those are innate attributes of the culture, but something that arises when power dynamics come into play and it develops a concept of entitlement. This is one reason why I take a more objective and comprehensive attitude on Afghan history, because we have people shouting "Rumi belongs to Afghanistan" or "we should kick them back across the Amu Darya" ..because we have people who actually ERRANTLY believe that those regions were historically native lands for Afghans. We forget they were acquired by conquest. Hence all these hyperbolic attempts are made to suggest Pashtuns existed in antiquity with nebulous word associations of "Pakhta" ...Pactuye ..."Ashvakas" etc etc.. It's all politically motivated.

.....But THAT's NOT the heart of the culture, do you think Pashtuns in general know or even care about that stuff? Real Pashtuns are people of folklore, yes there is a "warrior" principle among Pashtuns, but there's also a principle of "Malmastia" and grace. These hyper aggressive types are not the norm of Pashtun society.

Most of them are as estranged to Pashtuns as you can imagine. Even Khostai who actually speaks Pashto, has adopted Western Liberal indoctrination, is hostile towards the mainstream Islamic values held by the normative Pashtuns ,something completely foreign to people of Khost; yet he yaps that he's a Pashtun Nationalist and that people in Khost will welcome him with open arms. LOL

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

forget provinces you people travel to countries for terrorism:

Tajikistan police chief defects to Isis | World news | The Guardian

You have alot to worry about, i dont blame you being scared of warriors.. we are a threat to your existence, soon tajikis will only be in tajikistan, i would say Iran but Iranians wont really except you, they look down on you lol

Wrora, why should regular peace loving Tajiks suffer just because we took offense to something someone said on a forum?

[Loy Afghanistan]

While checking about the details on Durand line agreements , i realized that Afghan monarchs were very stupid and short-sighted, they are the ones who should be blamed the most by the people of Afghanistan . Amir Abdur Rahman signed a very humiliating agreement, all for subsidy of few lakh Rupees......His successor Amir Habibullah, was told by British that Durand treaty of 1893 with his father is null and void and no subsidy will be given to him....the beghairat Amir pressed on and convinced British for renewal of Durand line Agreement, subsidy was resumed to him.....King Amanullah , after going to the length of waging war against British in 1919, should not have signed the Durand agreement......but he signed it in 1921, it was the third time........Next King, Nadir Shah agreed with British that he wont interfere in internal affairs of NWFP.....so that when in 1947 Afghanistan tried to have say in referendum in NWFP, they were sharply reminded by British that Afghanistan can not interfere in affairs of NWFP according to the agreement.....


Red Shirts and Congress were also fraud.....from the documents and newspaper statements of 1947, its obvious that Red Shirts wanted autonomous "Pathanistan" within India........and they had no "Pathanistan" in mind before 1947's referendum...Bacha Khan's friends Nehru was most probably not sincere and would not have tolerated autonomous NWFP unit within India like Pakistan.

Jinnah , in his statements of 1947, assured that freedom of "Pathans" will be respected and that NWFP will be an autonomous unit within Pakistan........Jinnah did not fulfill his promise and did not grant autonomy to NWFP.......people of NWFP were fooled by Muslim league with the name of Islam, with the help of Pirs and Mullahs.......Pir Manki in his speeches to Pashtuns before referendum, assure them that there will be Sharia and rules of Quran implemented in Pakistan (This Pir felt betrayed after creation of Pakistan as no such promise was fulfilled and Jinnah switched to his natural secular outlook, this pir was arrested and put in jail by Liaqat Ali Khan)

If today Pakistani Pashtuns are "different", brainwashed, "pakistanized" , "Urdufied" or whatever........they are not be blamed, too much time has passed since their separation from Afghanistan and every kind of brainwashing was applied on them to make feel them distinct and different from Afghans and Afghanistan. Dont believe in the claims of some western nationalist with roots from Pakistan, that Lar Pashtuns want to join Afghanistan......

I agree. But everything is not lost. I do not really care of some haramis or mix raced "pathans" on the other side of a fake line. It is still Pashtun soil no matter what a 5000 year old ghulam and a former cow worshipping punjabi are saying today.