Modi to visit Afghanistan on June 4

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Do you accept though, that these groups are a creation of the ISI?

If so, doesn't the ISI hold a responsibility in their elimination? After all, this is for the good of Pakistan more than Afghanistan.

From a Political Analyst point of view (I'm referring to most political analysts who are experts on the topics, not myself)

Pakistan did not "create" Taliban, despite the hype and loud mouth rhetoric of Pakistani Generals like Babar and Hamid Gul.

Pakistan funded and gave logistics to the Taliban and eventually navigated the Taliban; but the creation of Taliban is purely a grassroots venture from within the circles of the Afghan Community.


The duplicitous game of the Pakistani establishment is one where they trade over to whoever offers better opportunities to Pakistan, as others have called it "Strategic Depth", keeping a Taliban that relies on it for survival, but catering to the Western powers. Is where they've been at for the last decade and a half.

[Porus]

How executing foreigners in our land is good for Pakistan?

Well it isn't just Afghan Taliban, it's also the various other Islamic groups that Pakistan harbours. Executing them would be very good for Pakistan's future.

Let Afghan deal with the mess they created and exported to Pakistan as well.

My God you are stupid.

ISI isn't anymore guilty then NDS. Few days ago 8 terrorist spies of NDS were arrested in Pakistan and admitted killing of Pakistanis on order of Afghan agency.

Is ISI guilty? Yes but so is NDS and their masters in Delhi.

I didn't ask about NDS in Dehli, or Indians. I asked you, don't you think it would be beneficial to Pakistan to get rid of these insurgent groups, which we have supported, and have been of no use to us. These people have killed more Pakistanis than Afghans or Indians, so where's the logic in providing support to these people? Please, answer the question.

Pakistan funded and gave logistics to the Taliban and eventually navigated the Taliban; but the creation of Taliban is purely a grassroots venture from within the circles of the Afghan Community.

Mujahideen were a grassroots Afghan movement funded by Pakistan. Taliban, although their initial membership consisted of many Afghans who lived as refugees in Pakistan, their upbringing mostly occurred in Akora Khattak and other districts of Pakhtunkhwa. Refer to Ahmed Rashid and Abu Bakr Siddique, one of them is a Pakistani from Lahore and the other is a Waziri Pashtun from the tribal areas. It's a well known fact that Pakistan nurtured and created the Taliban to counter the Mujahideen.

[Golden]

Well it isn't just Afghan Taliban, it's also the various other Islamic groups that Pakistan harbours. Executing them would be very good for Pakistan's future.



My God you are stupid.



I didn't ask about NDS in Dehli, or Indians. I asked you, don't you think it would be beneficial to Pakistan to get rid of these insurgent groups, which we have supported, and have been of no use to us. These people have killed more Pakistanis than Afghans or Indians, so where's the logic in providing support to these people? Please, answer the question.

Have you heard of Zarb-e-Azb? Every terrorist is being taken care of. But you want Afghan Taliban leader to be executed if found in Pakistan. I say better option is to hand them over to Afghanistan in return of TTP terrorists hiding in Afghanistan with help of NDS.

[Porus]

Have you heard of Zarb-e-Azb? Every terrorist is being taken care of. But you want Afghan Taliban leader to be executed if found in Pakistan. I say better option is to hand them over to Afghanistan in return of TTP terrorists hiding in Afghanistan with help of NDS.

Afghanistan will have no reason to keep funding TTP terrorists if Pakistan dismembers its Taliban leadership. The Americans are in Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban and they wouldn't support a government which aids the TTP to fragment Pakistan.

Do you think that fragmenting Pakistan is high on Afghanistan's list? A country which has been at war for decades? Don't you think it's a bit far-fetched to think that funding terrorist groups in Pakistan would be high on Afghanistan's agenda?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Mujahideen were a grassroots Afghan movement funded by Pakistan. Taliban, although their initial membership consisted of many Afghans who lived as refugees in Pakistan, their upbringing mostly occurred in Akora Khattak and other districts of Pakhtunkhwa. Refer to Ahmed Rashid and Abu Bakr Siddique, one of them is a Pakistani from Lahore and the other is a Waziri Pashtun from the tribal areas. It's a well known fact that Pakistan nurtured and created the Taliban to counter the Mujahideen.

For sure Deobandism played a significant influence in molding the ideological worldbiew of the Taliban; but if you're going to highlight that, The Nexus of Deobandi thinking is Dar Ul Uloom Deoband....which is in India.

Ahmad Rashid never claims that Taliban was created to counter the Mujahideen; rather Taliban were funded to counter Mujahideen who they saw as potentially aligning with India's geopolicy, for example Ahmad Shah Massoud was willing to truce and give safe passage to Najibullah. India wanted to take Najiib for asylum. This correspondence made Pakistan more active in propelling the Taliban. They wanted to maintain their sphere of influence.....even according to Ahmad Rashid, the Taliban came into being completely on their own ....however they were not independent players from Pakistan ...Pakistan went with the group they saw stood a greater viable chance to maintain its sphere of influence.....originally it was Gulbodeen Hekmatyar, but he was ineffective, so they switched to the Taliban once Hekmatyar started getting defeated by them. This would be a few years after Taliban began.

[Porus]

For sure Deobandism played a significant influence in molding the ideological worldbiew of the Taliban; but if you're going to highlight that, The Nexus of Deobandi thinking is Dar Ul Uloom Deoband....which is in India.

Ahmad Rashid never claims that Taliban was created to counter the Mujahideen; rather Taliban were funded to counter Mujahideen who they saw as potentially aligning with India's geopolicy, for example Ahmad Shah Massoud was willing to truce and give safe passage to Najibullah. India wanted to take Najiib for asylum. This correspondence made Pakistan more active in propelling the Taliban. They wanted to maintain their sphere of influence.....even according to Ahmad Rashid, the Taliban came into being completely on their own ....however they were not independent players from Pakistan ...Pakistan went with the group they saw stood a greater viable chance to maintain its sphere of influence.....originally it was Gulbodeen Hekmatyar, but he was ineffective, so they switched to the Taliban once Hekmatyar started getting defeated by them. This would be a few years after Taliban began.

Well, you might be right in this, however the Quetta and Peshawar Shoora are mostly reliant on the ISI's support. If the ISI did not support these groups by giving them shelter and passports, they would not exist. That's what I have a problem with regarding the Pakistani state.

[Golden]

Afghanistan will have no reason to keep funding TTP terrorists if Pakistan dismembers its Taliban leadership. The Americans are in Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban and they wouldn't support a government which aids the TTP to fragment Pakistan.

Do you think that fragmenting Pakistan is high on Afghanistan's list? A country which has been at war for decades? Don't you think it's a bit far-fetched to think that funding terrorist groups in Pakistan would be high on Afghanistan's agenda?

Far fetched to think after what happened last week and over the last year? Pakistan should hand over Taliban leaders in return of TTP ones. This sound like fair deal to me. Either way Taliban leaders are not worth anything, they replace soon after other die. Theories about Taliban disbanding after death of their leaders have largely been proven wrong.

Afghanistan will win war by killing large numbers of Talibans, not leaders who get replaced next day.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Well, you might be right in this, however the Quetta and Peshawar Shoora are mostly reliant on the ISI's support. If the ISI did not support these groups by giving them shelter and passports, they would not exist. That's what I have a problem with regarding the Pakistani state.

Well I don't know if they would or would not exist; but for sure their support from Pakistan ISi/Military gave them longevity. No way they'd have lasted this long on their wits alone.

[Golden]

I even doubt Taliban leader have any power to make peace deal even if he wanted. Good luck explaining to your supporters how it's ok for foreign troops to stay in Afghanistan, government being unIslamic etc Pakistan used to make peace deal with TTP before Zarb-e-Azb.

Killing Taliban leaders as we have seen recently is waste of time and resources.

[Firdousi]

Are they not trying to eliminate them, after all whats this operation zarb e azab about and whats national action plan all about.

You see? You are a naive fool!

Pakistan got a "good and bad Taliban" policy. You even ignore this and you dare you lesson other people. Please, kill yourself.

[Firdousi]

I think Chabahar's importance to Iran is being overrated by Indians. Iran already has Bandar Abbas which is on the North-South Transport Corridor. Iran is more invested in this route to connect itself to Russia, Caucasus and Central Asia than it is interested in developing Chabahar, even though Chabahar is claimed to be better located to handle bigger ships.

Iran also has problems with Kajaki dam and Salma dam in Afghanistan which they blame for drying up of Hamun lake and wetlands in West Balochistan which is a big conflict of interests between the two countries.

The failure of Iran's own project to launch the joint Persian language satellite tv with Tajikistan and Afghanistan several years ago also is good indication that many joint projects might look good on paper but dont meet expectations in reality.

Dont believe Chabahar hype until some results actually materialize. Indians are good talkers but deliver poor quality service while Iranians typically play hardball over contractual issues to squeeze more money and control for themselves or lose interest in such projects which they are not in full control over.

Chabahar agreement is good news for Afghanistan but it is too early to treat the arrangement as some kind of victory. There is about as much to be wary about its failure to materialize than there is to be pleased about its potential.

Chabahar is already operative, dude. They just need to expand the facilities. Both India and Iran have already paved roads from Chabahar to Afghanistan and Turkmenistan. This current agreement is for a railway and the expansion of the port. Its pretty viable this project specially if really India wants to reach Afghanistan, CA, Russia, and so on.

BTW Japan has already announced that they will join the project. So there won't be any problem.