What would 'Great Afghanistan' actually look like?

[Forreigner]

"Persian" north? The only people who consider the people up north to be followers of Persian cultures are those Tajik nationalists like Ferdousi. Time and time again, you were forced to ditch their Eastern Iranic language to adopt Persian. The fact is that Tajiks are not native to any region in Afghanistan, they're only native to their original place which is north of the Oxus. Pashtuns have always been the rulers of Afghanistan. The only other groups of people who have for a short while conquer Afghanistan, but not maintain control, were Persians and Turks. You never hear of Tajik empires do you?

NOTE: It is pretty easy to tell that Tajiks are heavily influenced by Pashtun culture. Take a look at the difference between a Tajik from Tajikistan and a Tajik from Afghanistan.

I believe Sassanid Empire was ''Tajik'' (tajik as ethnic group didnt exist then) or Persian speakers from Khorasan area (Tajik areas, came from outside of modern day Iran border) :




Sassanids, ancestors of Tajiks, not only conquered and ruled modern day Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, but also penetrated deeply into India. That's why Persian culture was so prominant in Indian subcontinent until recently and still today.

[Sarbani]

Sorry mate, but the Khiljis successfully defended against the Mongols. It was the Khorezmian (they were the Persians who you look up to) who fell. Pashtuns have been defeated in war on numerous occasions, but unlike Tajiks, Pashtuns have never given up their culture or let the conquerors to take over their culture and impose theirs. However Pashtuns have always put up a fierce fight, that is undeniable.

Note: I understand why you feel racially inferior to Pashtuns. Don't feel inferior, denying true facts shows how insecure you are in your culture.
[MENTION=18484]Porus[/MENTION]
You're probably the most calm of all Pakistanis I've ever met. Unlike some other Pakistanis on this forum, you're actually willing to accept the truth.

Khwarezmians were not Persians. They were East Iranics like the Bactrians and Sogdians.

[Win Butler]

The prevalence of the European R1a gene is enough to show that Tajiks are more similar to Mongols and Turks than they are to Iranians. R1a is found at a frequency of 50% among Pashtuns but only 28% in Tajiks. I'm not being racist, it's just hardcore facts. This 50% frequency is identical to that of a normal European.

Lol, that is due to founder effects. Even Bengali brahmins and Kyrgyz have a lot of R1a1a. Tajiks mainly have West Eurasian haplogroups like R1a1a, L, J1, etc. You're ****ing retarded and can't distinguish between Y-DNA and autosomal DNA. According to autosomal they are closer to Persians, Pamiris, Yaghnobis, Pashtuns, etc. than to Mongols. You ****ing dope.

[Win Butler]

Eh, no.

Seems you are a bit confused (nothing new here, anyway lol). Khawarezm, just like Ghaznawids, Seljuks,.. were "Persianized Turks". This means they were ethnically Turks, but their first language was Farsi, their food was Persian, their architecture was Persian, their clothes were Persian, their literature was Persian style,.. and so on. Same like Khilij were ethnically Turks but culturally Pashtuns.

Samanids, just like Saffarids, Ghorids, Tahirids, Kartids,.. and so on were pure Persian dynasties. Not only culturally but also ethnically. Thats why Samanids once said "This (Khorasan) is Persian land and we are Persian kings".

You see, my little caveman friend? Thats the difference between culture and ethnicity. Most of Pashtuns in the north and the west are also like Khwarezm or Ghaznawdis: ethnically non Persians but culturally more Persian than even me. Ergo, by using your twisted logic, they must be Persians too LOL

Don't argue with that guy. It is a pointless endeavor.

[Samandri]

Did the Khiliji empire spread to east Afghanistan or is the wiki map inaccurate?
another map:

"Ala-ud-Din due to his military reforms, and, partly due to the confusion caused by the death of Deva Khan, the ruler of Transoxiana, adopted an aggressive policy to tackle the Mongols. He followed rather an expansionist policy towards the north-western frontier. He led several expeditions on regular basis to Kabul, Qandahar, and Garmsir and consequently ravaged and in some cases levied tribute from its inhabitants. At that time, there was turmoil, confusion, and chaos and the Mongols in Transoxiana were not in the position to challenge the authority of the Sultan of Delhi. Even in the territory of Ghazni, the Khutba was read in Sultan’s name. Due to his wise forward policy, Sultan Ala-u-Din completely secured the north-western border of India. Particularly after 1307; the Mongol completely ceased their raids against Delhi. When this constant problem eliminated, the region of north-western India remained calm and quite and the people of these areas once again carried on their agriculture and business pursuits in peace and tranquillity."(Zia-ud-Din Barani, Tarikh-i-Feroz Shahi (Lahore: Sindh Sagar Academy, 1974), p. 67.)

[Golden]

East Pakistan is Indian land, genetically and culturally. U know that.

There is no diference between Indian culture and Punjabi or Sindhi culture, except religion maybe.

OK we get it dude, there is no difference. But one correction, from where I'm from our rural culture is more similar to sikhs then sindhis.

[Aryana]

Lol, that is due to founder effects. Even Bengali brahmins and Kyrgyz have a lot of R1a1a. Tajiks mainly have West Eurasian haplogroups like R1a1a, L, J1, etc. You're ****ing retarded and can't distinguish between Y-DNA and autosomal DNA. According to autosomal they are closer to Persians, Pamiris, Yaghnobis, Pashtuns, etc. than to Mongols. You ****ing dope.

The J haplogroup is Semitic. Bengali Brahmins have a lot of R1a because they exclusively marry only people whom they consider "pure Aryans".

No need to get so emotional, we all know that you're insecure, calling me retarded and an idiot from behind a screen. You think you're a warrior now eh?

[Aryana]

I believe Sassanid Empire was ''Tajik'' (tajik as ethnic group didnt exist then) or Persian speakers from Khorasan area (Tajik areas, came from outside of modern day Iran border) :




Sassanids, ancestors of Tajiks, not only conquered and ruled modern day Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, but also penetrated deeply into India. That's why Persian culture was so prominant in Indian subcontinent until recently and still today.

The Sassanians were not Tajik at all. They came from Fars, not Khorosan.

Also, the reason why Persian culture is prevalent in the Indian subcontinent is not because of Sassanids, but because of the Mughals, Persianized Turks etc.

[Win Butler]

The J haplogroup is Semitic. Bengali Brahmins have a lot of R1a because they exclusively marry only people whom they consider "pure Aryans".

No need to get so emotional, we all know that you're insecure, calling me retarded and an idiot from behind a screen. You think you're a warrior now eh?

Lol, J1 was found in Scythian/Sarmatian samples. It comes from the Caucasus. You don't know the difference between Y-DNA and autosomal DNA, so you are dumb. Get tested, I guarantee those Tajiks you call Mongol are closer to West Asians than you. You also concoct lies about history, linguistics, etc.

You think Pashtuns have a monopoly over East Iranics, lulz.

[Firdousi]

Lol, J1 was found in Scythian/Sarmatian samples. It comes from the Caucasus. You don't know the difference between Y-DNA and autosomal DNA, so you are dumb. Get tested, I guarantee those Tajiks you call Mongol are closer to West Asians than you. You also concoct lies about history, linguistics, etc.

You think Pashtuns have a monopoly over East Iranics, lulz.

Aryana is so hilarious. I really love his fairy tails. Everything is Pashtun. Yet he always fails to provide evidences. Typical Pashtun nationalist with inferiority complex trying to fill the vacuum of his idless history with make up stuff. I pity him.

[Porus]

To settle this 'Persian' or 'East Bactryan, Paktyan, Iranic' crap. I've spoken to a friend of mine from Iran, and she puts forward a pretty valid point.

Persians are more or less a linguistic group, she says. Persia or (Khorasan) has been conquered by Arabs, Mongols, Tatars, Turks, and (to a lesser extent) Indians.

Therefore, Persians as a group are not ethnically homogeneous. They could have Turkish, Arab or Mongol remnants in their ethnic makeup. What unifies Persians is the fact that they

Speak Farsi/Dari/Tajiki (Parsi)
Grew up in a household that speaks one or more of those dialects
Celebrate Nowruz and are aware of Persian festivals, history and culture

So, it's safe to say, that there is no such thing as the Persian 'race'. That race, which was there during the Achaemenid and Sassanian period, now no longer exists. Instead what has lived is their language, culture, poetry and continued renaissance of all three has verified the Persian identity.

Also [MENTION=19433]Aryana[/MENTION], Rumi, Avicenna, Samani, Al-Biruni etc. were all from Northern Afghanistan. Rudaki was from Tajikistan. They were all Persians. Regardless of their ethnic makeup. There's no shame in admitting that. It's just a fact.

I don't think I need to repeat that 'Tajik' is just a Turkic word for Persian.

[Porus]

Okay so if these people that have east iranic origin are now Persian because they have lost their original language. Is Ahmad Zahir who comes from a Pashtun family also a Persian because he had been Persianized?

Sure. If he speaks Persian as a mother-language, then he's a Persian of Pashtun origin. It's like Imran Khan. His mother language is Punjabi, so he is a Punjabi of Pashtun origin.

[Porus]

Also where is the evidence that rumi is a Persian and not just a Persianized Bactrian? Persian refugees mostly settled in Sogdiana after the Arab invasion.

Because Rumi never said he was a Persianised Bactrian :D

What does a Bactrian or Sogdian or any of these weird things even look like? How would you distinguish a Bactrian from a Sogdian from a Median from an Elamite? I mean seriously, why is this even a thing.

You don't see Iranians going around saying, 'yeah well I'm a Persian speaker of Median origin'. These races are redundant. They're extinct. Finito. They simply say 'I'm Persian'.

[Aryana]

Lol, J1 was found in Scythian/Sarmatian samples. It comes from the Caucasus. You don't know the difference between Y-DNA and autosomal DNA, so you are dumb. Get tested, I guarantee those Tajiks you call Mongol are closer to West Asians than you. You also concoct lies about history, linguistics, etc.

You think Pashtuns have a monopoly over East Iranics, lulz.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA).svg/2000px-Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA).svg.png

Educate yourself Iblis Efreetzai. To be honest, you bark and spew all this **** from your mouth and then show nothing to back up your [retarded] comments.

[MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION]
Two autistic kids combined aren't any smarter, I.e. you and this Porki kid I'm replying to.

[Khostai]

Thank you! I thought I was going crazy for a second, Afghans telling me people up North are not Persians lol. And yeah, I think I'm done with this thread more or less. I made my point

They are not, Persians do not consider them Persian, Persian is an ethnic group altough after thousands years being mixed they are still one ethnic group and tajiks just adopted persian culture and language and thats it.