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Gaurdian: How Kundoz was a Taliban Win

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  • Gaurdian: How Kundoz was a Taliban Win

    However long it lasts, Taliban capture of Kunduz is a major blow to Afghan government





    Even if security forces pass their first test and take back the city, the damage is done – militants have once again sparked international concern for Afghanistan





    The Taliban’s capture of the Afghan city of Kunduz was a military, political and propaganda coup for the insurgent group, and even if government troops retake it fast, the impact of their initial defeat will make it harder for Kabul to fight, rule or pursue peace talks.

    A key northern centre, Kunduz was the last city the Taliban lost in 2001 and is the first major centre they have taken since then. The assault marks a shift in strategy and confidence after years of sticking to rural areas to harry government and Nato troops.

    It will cement the authority of the Taliban’s recently appointed leader, Mullah Akhtar Mansoor, make the prospect of peace negotiations more distant and difficult, and dent the morale of both government troops and ordinary Afghans as they head into the country’s bitter winter.

    “Having a Taliban that is confident on the battlefield and which feels it can win militarily is not good for peace talks,” said Kate Clark of the Afghanistan Analysts Network, adding that even if the government could reclaim Kunduz huge damage had been done.

    “People get killed and injured, and it also makes residents feel very very unsafe. It doesn’t go back to how it was before your area got lost to the opposition. If you live there, your confidence in the government is lost.”

    Pictures of Taliban fighters driving Red Cross cars and posing for selfies in the centre of Kunduz shocked Afghans in Kabul and other urban centres where most people had considered themselves relatively safe, even as fighting spread in rural areas.

    The attack was timed for maximum political impact, with Taliban striking into Kunduz on the anniversary of president Ashraf Ghani’s inauguration as leader of a shaky national unity government.

    Nor could the government claim it had no warning. For months, people in Kunduz had been raising the alarm about insurgent gains in districts near the city, and at one point over the summer Taliban forces reportedly surged into its suburbs.

    The Taliban leadership flagged up its desire for popular support by handing out public orders to troops not to harm civilians, although there were reports of looting and that bodies of the dead lay uncollected in the streets.

    Analysts said the insurgents would have to hold the town for months before they could claim it as a permanent base, like the Iraqi town of Mosul has become for Islamic State. Government forces are already fighting through the suburbs, and the Taliban’s traditional enemies have been gathering across the north and vowing to pick up arms and drive them out.

    But extra troops must be drawn from other areas with security problems of their own, and the Taliban moved quickly to entrench themselves in the city, reportedly sowing the roads with bombs and fanning out through civilian areas where it will be hard for government troops to call on western air support.

    And, although the Taliban are believed to be heavily outnumbered, in the past they have proved willing to take heavy casualties to hold on to lesser prizes in the south.

    More than 200 fighters may have died holding on to rural Musa Qala district in Helmand in recent months, after an abortive government effort to reclaim the area, analyst Borhan Osman said.

    “It’s significant, a first big test for the Afghan national security forces. If the Taliban did manage to hold on to a city for an extended period of time, that would be a big blow,” said a former senior western diplomat in Kabul. “If they were still in charge of it next year or in a few months time, you’d begin to have Mosul-like parallels.”

    The one small comfort that the government may be able to draw from the fall of Kunduz is that it will put Afghanistan firmly back on the international agenda, reversing a slow drift of attention towards Syria and other crisis areas.

    Kunduz proved a bellwether when the Soviet Union cut funding and support for the Afghan military in the 1980s, the first major town lost to insurgents after the Russian retreat from Afghanistan. Soon after, the country drifted into full-blown civil war.

    The west insists it wants to stop that happening again, and there is little dispute that the Afghan military needs help with funding, hardware and technical assistance.

    “In a way, the US [military] had already come back,” the former diplomat said, referring to renewed support for the Afghan military after the former president, Hamid Karzai, who had been fiercely critical of Nato, stepped down. “We are committed to support.”
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

  • #2
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...han-government
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

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    • #3
      With 75% of the country being in the rural areas, the long term outcome with a measely 10,000 troops is likely to be NATO locked up in the urban centers and the insurgency ruling the rural regions. Every now and then NATO and the ANA will try to sweep outwards and now and then the insurgency will penetrate an urban center. This will go on until the economic costs mount to be too great for the the West since little gain will come out of it except securing a strategic piece of land.
      "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BarakzaiAbdali View Post
        With 75% of the country being in the rural areas, the long term outcome with a measely 10,000 troops is likely to be NATO locked up in the urban centers and the insurgency ruling the rural regions. Every now and then NATO and the ANA will try to sweep outwards and now and then the insurgency will penetrate an urban center. This will go on until the economic costs mount to be too great for the the West since little gain will come out of it except securing a strategic piece of land.
        We are fighting the war for our country. There may be some among our ranks that are boy lovers, but we will prevail against the barbaric taliban. If we cannot assert our dominance, then we will have to separate the the eastern and southern parts of Afghanistan, for the longevity of the Afghan nation.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ANAcommander View Post
          We are fighting the war for our country. There may be some among our ranks that are boy lovers, but we will prevail against the barbaric taliban. If we cannot assert our dominance, then we will have to separate the the eastern and southern parts of Afghanistan, for the longevity of the Afghan nation.
          Schopenhauer said "Every nation ridicules other nations, and we are all right.” However truth be told you have told the truth. A confession soled by the self styled ANCommander.

          Under the sole of a Kandahari.

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          • #6
            Well, the Kondoz affaire caused the rearming of thousands along north and in Kabul. In Takhar province they already have started their operations against Taliban. Not the army, but the people. They killed the Taliban to the last man. Balkh is preparing its own people and Sarpol for a long war. In Kondoz things are going to turn worse for those who are Taliban or sympathizers. They next days we will be witnessed of massacres, raping, looting and revenge. Ghor province and Badghis have declared yesterday they are sharing weapons with the civilians. Herat and Farah are following. Don´t understand why you are happy about Kondoz? It´s a backlash to Taliban and Pakistanis. But maybe they want the people to fight eachother.

            Three weeks ago, Da´esh beheaded 600 men, young and old, in Nangarhar province. They forces local women to marry their men. What is the difference between Taliban and Da´esh?
            Last edited by Zaadgaan Kabul; 10-13-2015, 08:03 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Zaadgaan Kabul View Post
              Well, the Kondoz affaire caused the rearming of thousands along north and in Kabul. In Takhar province they already have started their operations against Taliban. Not the army, but the people. They killed the Taliban to the last man. Balkh is preparing its own people and Sarpol for a long war. In Kondoz things are going to turn worse for those who are Taliban or sympathizers. They next days we will be witnessed of massacres, raping, looting and revenge. Ghor province and Badghis have declared yesterday they are sharing weapons with the civilians. Herat and Farah are following. Don´t understand why you are happy about Kondoz? It´s a backlash to Taliban and Pakistanis. But maybe they want the people to fight eachother.

              Three weeks ago, Da´esh beheaded 600 men, young and old, in Nangarhar province. They forces local women to marry their men. What is the difference between Taliban and Da´esh?

              How are civilians conducting their own operations against the Taliban when the under trained, under funded, under manned security forces flee the Taliban unless there is foreign airpower involved? Government funded militias do not count as the "people."

              And no, IS did not behead 600 people. I don't know where that ridiculously high number came from, and neither do you.
              There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

              Sayyid Qutb

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
                How are civilians conducting their own operations against the Taliban when the under trained, under funded, under manned security forces flee the Taliban unless there is foreign airpower involved? Government funded militias do not count as the "people."

                And no, IS did not behead 600 people. I don't know where that ridiculously high number came from, and neither do you.
                Nangarhar officials complained about it some weeks ago in Kabul and it was published by the media while local media of Nangarhar seems to be totally absent. Districts like Achin became graveyard for its population. The reaction was that some officials like Zahir Qadir asked province representants to re-arm people. Two days ago people of Badakhshan have declared taking arms and fighting against Taliban shaping from the border to their province. The governeurs have laid down their civilian clothes.
                People do not fight for money or power but for self-defense to protect their families, homes, lands, honour. The events against Taliban in Faryab and Takhar have proved that people do not need to be funded or trained that much. In Takhar, former fighters cooperated their mission against Taliban. Most of them are already experienced fighters from the past. The youngsters are recruited by local commanders or security organizations. Money, weapons and support flow from Russia and the 5-stans. Taliban trainigs take 3 weeks. That´s not that much time to learn and get experienced. Unfortunately, they have the better weapons.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
                  How are civilians conducting their own operations against the Taliban when the under trained, under funded, under manned security forces flee the Taliban unless there is foreign airpower involved? Government funded militias do not count as the "people."
                  At one point army personals have to flee when they ask for ammunition and some food but Kabul keeps silent and do not provide them with their needs. Do you want to fight Taliban with stones? Of course their is a plot against the army where Ghani, Atmar and Pakis have full hands in it. Why do Ghani does not allow the army to operate against Taliban? People get killed, looted and Ghani still do not allow them to operate. Just listen to the reports of the local commanders. A Waziristani monkey does not know where Kondoz is. How can he find the way and stay hdden in Kondoz province for 4 months?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Right now, police officers surrounded by Taliban in Shiwan area of Farah province. The checkpoint commander called Kabul asking for support and more ammunitions. The call was clipped by an official in Kabul! This is reality why Taliban make gains. Please listen to the news.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Zaadgaan Kabul View Post
                      Nangarhar officials complained about it some weeks ago in Kabul and it was published by the media while local media of Nangarhar seems to be totally absent. Districts like Achin became graveyard for its population. The reaction was that some officials like Zahir Qadir asked province representants to re-arm people. Two days ago people of Badakhshan have declared taking arms and fighting against Taliban shaping from the border to their province. The governeurs have laid down their civilian clothes.
                      People do not fight for money or power but for self-defense to protect their families, homes, lands, honour. The events against Taliban in Faryab and Takhar have proved that people do not need to be funded or trained that much. In Takhar, former fighters cooperated their mission against Taliban. Most of them are already experienced fighters from the past. The youngsters are recruited by local commanders or security organizations. Money, weapons and support flow from Russia and the 5-stans. Taliban trainigs take 3 weeks. That´s not that much time to learn and get experienced. Unfortunately, they have the better weapons.
                      Average people want to be left alone by the Government and the Taliban and they do not pick up arms to fight so and so. If this were about land and honor, were these people fighting the NATO occupation? Then again, this grassroots uprising is unsubstantiated.

                      Again, where are the reports of 600 heads?

                      I trust a local Afghan police commanders claim like I trust someone telling me the Earth is flat.
                      Last edited by randolph85; 10-14-2015, 09:05 PM.
                      There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

                      Sayyid Qutb

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Zaadgaan Kabul View Post
                        At one point army personals have to flee when they ask for ammunition and some food but Kabul keeps silent and do not provide them with their needs. Do you want to fight Taliban with stones? Of course their is a plot against the army where Ghani, Atmar and Pakis have full hands in it. Why do Ghani does not allow the army to operate against Taliban? People get killed, looted and Ghani still do not allow them to operate. Just listen to the reports of the local commanders. A Waziristani monkey does not know where Kondoz is. How can he find the way and stay hdden in Kondoz province for 4 months?
                        You are basically saying Atmar and Ghani are trying to undermine the army where in reality Ghani is a powerless idiot and Atmar has always been in the pro America, pro Karzai, anti Taliban camp. Ghani would sell his wife back to Lebanon if it meant the ANA could win some battles, but they can't so he won't. The problem is corruption and that the ANA is a pathetic force despite the fact that countless billions of dollars have been poured into the institution. A Talib is motivated by money and ideology, an ANA soldier is motivated by money and no ideology.
                        There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

                        Sayyid Qutb

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ANA is motivated by little money, anti paki propaganda and maybe little patriotism.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by marwat View Post
                            ANA is motivated by little money, anti paki propaganda and maybe little patriotism.
                            You're all so dependent on VEDA. You don't have what is takes to beat us anymore.

                            Call your Indian daddies, when all is said and done.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by marwat View Post
                              ANA is motivated by little money, anti paki propaganda and maybe little patriotism.
                              Wrong. They are motivated by dollars and love for adolescents boys rectal cavity.
                              Originally posted by Firdousi
                              Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

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